I was wondering what happened, when I logged into the site just the other day, and was not able to enter my postcard code.

Yeah, it is really tough to bootstrap.  For me personally, I can still sell bitcoins pretty much cost-free, which makes life difficult for any for-profit exchanger...



This is fantastic.  I was pretty sure that FinCEN ruling applied to bitcoin, but it is very good to have official confirmation of that.


Do you have a pointer to more detail on this?

Thanks, and sorry to hear this is closing.  I never saw much about BitcoinUSA on the forums after the initial announcement, but was nonetheless following it with great interest.

Most people in the USA probably don't know this, but in Canada we can do cross-border ACH payment to/from the USA. It costs pennies per transaction, processes the same business day, and it only costs a couple hundred dollars to get it setup.

In terms of the money-related statutes of the USA: we just agree to them by signing a contract with our local bank. If you are found to be in breach of it, you are not arrested or fined. Your bank accounts are simply closed.

This might be a better option for those who want to provide ACH services to US customers. In the likely event of a US government backlash you'd just find your accounts closed. You wouldn't be in a legal battle or end up sitting in the 'clink.

A word of caution: I still wouldn't use ACH to debit from bank accounts. You will have fraud/sore casino losers/etc, and your only remedy is to sue. The banks don't get involved with ACH disputes at all because there is no money in it. (Pennies vs a credit card where the bank charges the merchant $20-$45 to mediate complaints.)

Paying people with ACH doesn't seem to be a problem at all. Actually, it is far cheaper and faster than wires.

I have software that I had written many years ago for a client of mine that actually produces the specially-formatted CPA (Canadian Payments Association; our equivalent of the ABA) files that are uploaded and parsed by our banks in Canada. If someone in Canada (or a US citizen using a trustee in Canada) needs programming examples I can provide them.

Without disclosing too much about my client; the last time we dealt with ACH disputes the following was standard procedure:

The customer calls their bank to dispute the withdrawal from their account. The customer is told to go to their branch to sign an affidavit, they sign it, and the funds are returned immediately. It matters not if the merchant has an authorization form with the customer's signature on it. If the customer claims it was fraudulent and signs an affidavit, the merchant loses the funds. The bank will not get involved in the dispute itself. It's up to the merchant to seek remedy in court by way of litigation.


I've only have had experiences with merchant-initiated ACH. I can't speak for any other methods.


Well, in Canada bill payments are technically not ACH. I'm pretty sure we have a separate facility for that here. I can't speak for the US's bill payment system.

davidonpda:

wow, sad to see it go. while i never got around to registering myself, i was looking forward to seeing it in operation.

i guess the problem was that there are plenty of other avenues of exchange by now, that going through the laborious KYC registration process when you could just... go elsewhere, didn't make sense for a most users.

i suppose we'll just have to wait until someone like scottrade, or one of the big forex players, decides to add BTC to their trading options.

What reubgr asked. I'm interested in setting up an exchange service and I have no idea what the legal barriers are.

bumping this in hope we can get the letter or direct quote on the ruling.  there is a lot of interest in this.

bump bump...

Also, would it be possible to set up the exchange with simple registration requirements, and then lift the $1000/day limit if you do everything for KYC?

Why do you think think FinCEN applies to bitcoins with regard to MSB issues?

This is directly from FinCEN on page 2:


The issue is whether bitcoins are 'currency', 'funds or monetary value' for purposes of MSB regulations? Currency is legal tender as defined under 31 USC 5103-5118. Bitcoins are not defined as legal tender currency under the USC. Funds or monetary value are in regard to currency.

Because bitcoins are not currency and MSB regulations apply to persons doing business as a seller or redeemer of stored value which is in regard to currency or funds of currency therefore the MSB regulations do not apply to bitcoins. For the same reasons MSB regulations do not apply to soybeans, tractors, ebooks or pieces of dog crap.