>> (p.1)
    Author Topic: Kickstarter Proxy Service (a concept for discussion)  (Read 2604 times)

    • Nyhm (OP)
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    September 04, 2012, 06:02:01 PM
    Last edit: September 04, 2012, 06:23:29 PM by Nyhm
     #1
    This is just an initial concept. Please discuss (be constructive). Has anyone proposed this before? Notice that this is not an automated crowd-funding system. It's just me/someone being a human proxy to Kickstarter.

    Scenario: Suppose you want to support a Kickstarter project with Bitcoin. I would set up a Bitcoin donation address, then back the project myself with the equivalent USD (by converting any BTC donation to USD).

    Caveats/Problems:
    • You wouldn't be able to get any associated backer rewards.
    • If the Kickstarter project fails (does not reach its goal), I don't have a good way to give you back your funding (I keep it).
    • Accountability (see below)

    So, you don't get the perks of being a backer, and there is some risk involved (maybe that's my incentive for running this system), but you get to be a (pseudo-)anonymous Bitcoin patron. In the future, I would create a Bitcoin-specific user in Kickstarter to show that it's the Bitcoin community backing projects.

    An escrow could be used to give you back your bitcoins if a project fails (rather than me keeping them), but then the proxy person would need to have enough USD on hand to back the project.

    Accountability: Check the unique donation address for balance, and make sure my (well-known) Kickstarter user is actually backing the project for the correct amount of USD... However, I just realized that Kickstarter does not disclose individual backer funding level. This could be a problem.

    Workaround: You'd have to be told to observe the project's balance at a certain time. Then I would back the project, and you can observe the balance adjustment. However, Kickstarter even hides backer names in groups of 10. Still it would be hard to fake, but there's a lot of overhead here. I suppose reputation/trust is the best way to overcome this (admittedly sticky) point.


    Full disclosure: I currently have an ongoing Kickstarter project (Island Forge accepts Bitcoin memberships). If anyone wants to show support for my project, and to bolster interest in this proxy idea for the future, please send bitcoins to:

    1KiCKf3CTJYX3fqKvsHwPki22G8cuSqWqy

    Project ends on Sep 13, 2012, so any funds after Sep 12 I probably won't have time to process (just a general donation).


    UPDATE: I am now Bitcoin Enthusiast at Kickstarter!
    [Bitcoin Game List] ~ [BitcoinGalaxy.net Live Bitcoin Visualization] ~ [PotentialGames.com]

  • ChrisKoss
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    September 04, 2012, 10:52:06 PM
     #2
    Quote from: Nyhm on September 04, 2012, 06:02:01 PM

    Caveats/Problems:
    • You wouldn't be able to get any associated backer rewards.
    Each time you successfully fund a campaign, you have to fill out a "backer survey" that usually includes shipping address, email, etc.  I think you could send backer rewards to unique shipping addresses without any problems.

    If the Kickstarter project fails, you never get charged, so then you should just send back the USD equivalent of their pledge via BTC.

    Accountability is the hardest part of the equation - I've had kickstarter projects arrive 4 months after backing, and for some I'll be waiting over a year (Double Fine Adventure, for example).  It will be hard to build trust in this service if delivery takes 4+ months.

    Good luck though, I'd use it![/list]
    I am a consultant providing services to CoinLab, Inc.

  • Nyhm (OP)
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    September 05, 2012, 01:04:54 AM
     #3
    Quote from: Andrew Bitcoiner on September 04, 2012, 09:21:20 PM
    just use https://bitcoinfunding.com/

    Excellent - I've had BitcoinFunding.com bookmarked forever. I didn't realize it was up and running now. I may very well try it out. I have a number of little Bitcoin projects in the works that could be improved with funding. I'm very interested to see if the Bitcoin community is very charitable (or if it's just all about the rewards).

    Of course, the purpose of this thread is to discuss proxying to Kickstarter.

    Quote from: ChrisKoss on September 04, 2012, 10:52:06 PM
    Quote from: Nyhm on September 04, 2012, 06:02:01 PM

    Caveats/Problems:
    • You wouldn't be able to get any associated backer rewards.
    Each time you successfully fund a campaign, you have to fill out a "backer survey" that usually includes shipping address, email, etc.  I think you could send backer rewards to unique shipping addresses without any problems.

    If the Kickstarter project fails, you never get charged, so then you should just send back the USD equivalent of their pledge via BTC.

    Accountability is the hardest part of the equation - I've had kickstarter projects arrive 4 months after backing, and for some I'll be waiting over a year (Double Fine Adventure, for example).  It will be hard to build trust in this service if delivery takes 4+ months.

    Good luck though, I'd use it![/list]

    Excellent points, thanks for your input ChrisKoss.

    One trouble with reward shipping is that my Bitcoin Enthusiast user could be proxying several Bitcoin patrons under a single account. So, 5 folks may (anonymously) send a total of 7btc to a project's donation address, which would turn into one $70 (appx) backing. If more BTC shows up later, I can up the bid. One great thing is that I don't have to worry about the Bitcoin patrons backing out on me, so I am personally confident in pledging the USD.

    To handle sending back BTC is (a) a lot more overhead/complexity (but maybe necessary for folks to consider it), and (b) would require a payment and return address for each Bitcoin patron. This could still retain a level of anonymity, though.

    The point, really, should be about being a pseudo-anonymous (at least unnamed) Bitcoin backer of a project, not just to win the rewards.

    Just to clarify, I'm not proposing that I will be jumping into this anytime soon (except for backing my own project, see above). I just think it's an interesting concept worth discussing at this point. Maybe someone will run with it, or think of some clever twist to solve the accountability issues. More discussion definitely needed.
    [Bitcoin Game List] ~ [BitcoinGalaxy.net Live Bitcoin Visualization] ~ [PotentialGames.com]

  • gweedo
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    September 05, 2012, 03:06:05 AM
     #4
    Quote from: Nyhm on September 05, 2012, 01:04:54 AM
    Quote from: Andrew Bitcoiner on September 04, 2012, 09:21:20 PM
    just use https://bitcoinfunding.com/
    Excellent - I've had BitcoinFunding.com bookmarked forever. I didn't realize it was up and running now. I may very well try it out. I have a number of little Bitcoin projects in the works that could be improved with funding. I'm very interested to see if the Bitcoin community is very charitable (or if it's just all about the rewards).

    Obvious scam is obvious https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/92027.msg1147621#msg1147621

  • Phinnaeus Gage
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    September 05, 2012, 05:28:53 AM
     #5
    When's the last time you had lunch with Satoshi? Topic 17: Reliable P2P. (Alternative names up to student: reliable DHT, reliable BitTorrent, ot bitcoins)

    Quote
    • Swagatika Prusty, Brian Neil Levine, and Marc Liberatore. 2011. Forensic investigation of the OneSwarm anonymous filesharing system. In Proceedings of the 18th ACM conference on Computer and communications security (CCS ’11). ACM, New York, NY, USA, 201-214.
    • Nakamoto, Satoshi, Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. 2009.

    Seriously (I think), I like Nathan's background. He wrote (PDF) Cheat-Proof Playout for Centralized and Peer-to-Peer Gaming AND (Non-PDF) with Marc Liberatore and Brian Neil Levine, Member, IEEE, hence the humorous first line of this post.

    With only eight days to go with his current Kickstarter campaign, it looks like he's just north of being only halfway to his goal of $4,000 USD. Ideally, I would like to see him reach his goal, then work on what he has outlined in the OP of this thread.

    Like my brother-in-law, Nathan is great at what he does, but his social marketing skills suck. Case in point, https://twitter.com/potentialgames Seriously! Over two years and only 3 followers? This paragraph is in no way dissing you--just stating a fact. Remember, I said (implied) that I like you.

    That said, if there's anyway that members of this community can help him reach his goal, please do so.

    Full Disclosure: In a couple days, I'm going to revisit Nathan's Kickstarter page, and if I see an upward tick, I'll contribute.

    Excellent paper, Nathan.

    ~Bruno~

    PS: Now I'm heading over to another thread and apologize to the Bitcoin Douchebag.  Grin

  • Phinnaeus Gage
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    September 05, 2012, 04:35:02 PM
     #6
    BUMP! I like this guy. It looks like a new backer has come on board over at the Kickstarter campaign.

    ~Bruno~

  • Nyhm (OP)
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    September 06, 2012, 02:51:42 PM
     #7
    I very much appreciate your comments, Phinnaeus Gage. Regarding my social marketing skills - it's true, I'm very new at this. The Twitter account I use is https://twitter.com/islandforge

    I'm not agile enough at social media to keep up on both my Potential Games feeds, as well as Island Forge, so I decided to focus on the game, rather than the company name. Lately, I spend all day every day trying to spread the word. I'd love to hire a publicist, but at this point I'm doing everything myself. I definitely recognize that I need all the help I can get, and any advice/assistance is greatly appreciated.

    I'm a rather private person, and it was a difficult choice, but I decided to put myself out there with this Kickstarter project, because it means that much to me. It would mean a lot for the Bitcoin community to really get behind me. It's encouraging to have such a prominent Bitcoin individual such as Phinnaeus Gage in my corner!

    Bitcoin beckons me like nothing since the Internet itself. Its blend of p2p, cryptography, and software fit my background and interests perfectly. I have a laundry list of potential ideas (games and otherwise) I'd love to pursue, but my immediate focus is on the success of Island Forge.

    I feel there is so much potential in the Bitcoin realm, where I could really find my niche. Anyone hiring?
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  • quqii
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    September 07, 2012, 10:54:40 AM
     #8
    Hi!

    Since I have found no good crowdfunding platform, I set up my own module.

    I am curious if crowdfunding with Bitcoins finds an acceptance.

    More info: https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/106359.0

    or https://www.quqii.com/crowdfunding

    To make things clear: we are not creating a crowdfunding platform, we need support to be able to get an iOS/Android App, which is badly missing.

    But maybe our php/jquery module have the potential to be used on other sites as well.

    Kind regards, Carlo

    PS: If you just like to have a look -> register at quqii.com and see how it works.

  • mc_lovin
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    September 08, 2012, 04:24:06 AM
     #9
    Quote from: Andrew Bitcoiner on September 04, 2012, 09:21:20 PM
    just use https://bitcoinfunding.com/
    That doesn't really solve the problem of being able to donate to projects in Kickstarter with bitcoin. 

    There have been projects come up in the past that I would have wanted to donate to, and probably would have if I could have sent bitcoin through a proxy service.

  • Nyhm (OP)
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    September 08, 2012, 01:49:54 PM
     #10
    Quote from: mc_lovin on September 08, 2012, 04:24:06 AM
    Quote from: Andrew Bitcoiner on September 04, 2012, 09:21:20 PM
    just use https://bitcoinfunding.com/
    That doesn't really solve the problem of being able to donate to projects in Kickstarter with bitcoin. 

    There have been projects come up in the past that I would have wanted to donate to, and probably would have if I could have sent bitcoin through a proxy service.

    Thanks for brining this topic back on track, mc_lovin.

    • Would you have been willing to give bitcoins to a human proxy (such as myself), as described in the OP?
    • What do you feel about the caveats/accountability issues listed (no rewards, no returns)?
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