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    Author Topic: Size of BTC blockchain centuries from now...  (Read 10842 times)

    • Yurock
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    September 25, 2012, 09:13:28 PM
     #21
    Quote from: dreamwatcher on September 25, 2012, 09:02:58 PM
    Has anybody attempted/published a client or utility that could could verify the chain using openCL?

    GPUS are used for the hashing involved mining now, is there a reason why it would be inefficient to verify the same way?
    In my experience, the bottleneck is not in computation. The slowest thing during block verification are database operations. Within one block, different transaction "inputs" use "outputs" from different previous blocks. The program needs to access all of those blocks to verify "inputs".

  • Desolator
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    September 28, 2012, 04:58:34 AM
     #22
    Btw, how big is the database right now?  It's not stored in the directory I thought it was but I assume my updated but original client contains the entire chain db.  Speaking of that, what directly is it stored in for Windows 7 64-bit?  Because it uses soooooooooo much IO, I want to move it to a secondary drive if possible.

    Also, I know this has massive security concerns but if someone downloaded a client that included a giant 1 year history worth of the block chain database for example, how compressed archive friendly would the database file(s) be?

  • Dabs
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    September 28, 2012, 02:05:49 PM
     #23
    Centuries from now, the block chain might be a few terabytes in size. But every smart phone in the whole world can store it on the latest version of the microsd card, or even in the phone memory.

    Our bandwidth speeds would allow a new phone to completely download the block chain in 1 hour from the neighborhood coffee shop that has free LTE (or whatever WIFI there is then.)

    The lite clients wouldn't exist because every person with the slowest and oldest working smart phone runs a full node, and the higher end phones would be mining. The desktops at homes would be mining too in the high ultra-tera-bazillion-hash rates, for the 0.000001 BTC we get for every block every 10 minutes at an obscenely high trillion difficulty.

    Then, centuries later, someone inherits an envelope that has a paper wallet with 10 bitcoin private keys, each one worth a few thousand full bitcoins (whereas everyone else has about a dozen bitcoins total worth their annual salary) that was saved a few decades prior.
    Escrow Service (Historical) - Feed Some Children by Dabs (Historical) - GPG ID: 32AD7565, OTC ID: Dabs
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    https://freebitcoins.com/?aKey=df2c471a520b751715065b0b3ac9359043e9993c

  • kjj
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    September 28, 2012, 03:45:49 PM
     #24
    Quote from: Desolator on September 28, 2012, 04:58:34 AM
    Btw, how big is the database right now?  It's not stored in the directory I thought it was but I assume my updated but original client contains the entire chain db.  Speaking of that, what directly is it stored in for Windows 7 64-bit?  Because it uses soooooooooo much IO, I want to move it to a secondary drive if possible.

    Also, I know this has massive security concerns but if someone downloaded a client that included a giant 1 year history worth of the block chain database for example, how compressed archive friendly would the database file(s) be?

    Code:
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    2012-09-28 2097197999etc/bitcoin/blk0001.dat 1169408710etc/bitcoin/blk0002.dat

    I don't keep historic data on blkindex.dat, but it is currently 1079406592 bytes.  (Currently meaning right now, not when the snapshot of the block000?.dat files were recorded.)  Oh, and these are my files, not the files.  Yours might be a bit different depending on which orphans your node saw.

    I'm not sure about how to move it in Windows.  I *think* you can shut down, copy all the files, edit your bitcoin.conf to include a datadir=D:\blah\ line, and start again.  Pay attention if you do this, using the datadir= option changes where the client looks for EVERYTHING except the bitcoin.conf.  But I'm not sure about that, you may need to use something more elaborate, like a NTFS junction.  The default data dir in Windows is %APPDATA%\Bitcoin

    Sadly, it isn't really compressible in the usual way.  Almost everything in it is high entropy, so it won't compress much, if any.  The devs are working on other ways to distribute the files and reduce their impact.
    17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
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  • Ascholten
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    September 28, 2012, 10:34:05 PM
     #25
    you would think that they could break them into say 100 meg pieces that can be loaded as that one chunk, already 'pre figured out' or whatever you want to call it, and then maybe the last 30 days trickle in as it does now.

    How about, after a transaction has been verified a few thousand times, umm duuh it's VALID, lets move it to an inactive block chain or something.  I know each piece works off the previous but we we take a 100 meg
    piece say 'THIS' is the answer from that ... that gets fed to the next transaction, it might speed things up a bit.

    Aaron
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  • solareclipse64236
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    September 28, 2012, 10:37:28 PM
     #26
    wtf do you mean centuries from now?

    it's only good until 2120 something

  • Ascholten
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    September 28, 2012, 10:43:14 PM
     #27
    by that time I see an entirely new form of currency and bit coins will be about as obsolete as 8 track tapes.

    Aaron
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  • Desolator
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    September 29, 2012, 06:15:25 AM
     #28
    Quote from: solareclipse64236 on September 28, 2012, 10:37:28 PM
    wtf do you mean centuries from now?

    it's only good until 2120 something
    I better correct that before people fill up their flamethrowers.  It's only going to keep being created for <100 years Tongue it'll still be "good" and useful lol.

    Btw my system's not running Linux but don't hate, at least I recoginzed that as Linux from my Redhat training lol.  That does answer my Q since I assume that means it's around 1028MB but just so I know for future reference, aww fuck it, I ran a search Tongue it's in C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\

    ...except mine's 2,048,142KB for blk0001.dat and 1,100,784KB for blk0002.dat and 1,030,936KB for blkindex.dat.

    Btw what precisely are each of those?

  • Yurock
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    September 29, 2012, 06:31:29 AM
     #29
    Quote from: Desolator on September 29, 2012, 06:15:25 AM
    ...except mine's 2,048,142KB for blk0001.dat and 1,100,784KB for blk0002.dat and 1,030,936KB for blkindex.dat.

    Btw what precisely are each of those?
    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory#Files
    Blockchain data is split in 2GB files.

  • kjj
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    September 29, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
     #30
    Quote from: Ascholten on September 28, 2012, 10:43:14 PM
    by that time I see an entirely new form of currency and bit coins will be about as obsolete as 8 track tapes.

    Check your (physical) wallet.  The 8-track tapes are in there.  The entirely new form of currency is here.
    17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
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  • kjj
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    September 29, 2012, 06:55:15 AM
     #31
    Quote from: Desolator on September 29, 2012, 06:15:25 AM
    Quote from: solareclipse64236 on September 28, 2012, 10:37:28 PM
    wtf do you mean centuries from now?

    it's only good until 2120 something
    I better correct that before people fill up their flamethrowers.  It's only going to keep being created for <100 years Tongue it'll still be "good" and useful lol.

    Btw my system's not running Linux but don't hate, at least I recoginzed that as Linux from my Redhat training lol.  That does answer my Q since I assume that means it's around 1028MB but just so I know for future reference, aww fuck it, I ran a search Tongue it's in C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\

    ...except mine's 2,048,142KB for blk0001.dat and 1,100,784KB for blk0002.dat and 1,030,936KB for blkindex.dat.

    Btw what precisely are each of those?

    There isn't precise answer.  The blocks are just appended to the block file(s), as they come in.  Each node has a (potentially) unique view of orphan blocks.
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  • misterbigg
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    September 29, 2012, 03:32:58 PM
     #32
    Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 14, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
    In 1980 a 26 MB hard drive cost ~$5,000 (or $193,000,000 per TB).
    Obviously angry birds isn't viable.  I mean who is going to spend a couple hundred dollars in storage on a free game. Smiley

    I paid $800 for a ten megabyte hard drive in 1987.

  • laanwj
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    September 30, 2012, 11:37:00 AM
     #33
    Ooh the far future, cool.

    (/Charles Stross mode on)

    Humanity in 2500AD only very superficially resembles that of today. After a few recompilations and refactorings of the underlying mind substrate, and after converting most of the matter in the solar system to computronium, the concept of a human as we know it today seems pretty quaint.

    This general purpose programmable material makes it possible to store information at a density never even imagined, by rearranging matter at a scale of particles not yet known today. And there are rumors of other civilizations, far away in the Magellanic cloud, storing information directly in the quantum state by performing a timing attack on the underlying fabric of spacetime.

    One of the weakly godlike intelligences decides to use their spare cycles in the Jupiter Brain to compute the Kolmogorov complexity of the block chain, which at that point in time consists of 10^20 bytes of audit trail of artificially intelligent financial instruments solving the problem of interstellar trade between relativistic frames of reference...

    (/Charles Stross mode off)

  • Ascholten
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    September 30, 2012, 11:33:06 PM
     #34
    I have a feeling within 20 years, money will be dna encoded or something and our 'wallets' are kept right on as part of our body,  all this silly paper metal disks, and virtual dollars and bitcoins will be long gone.

    Aaron
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  • Dabs
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    October 01, 2012, 06:00:34 AM
     #35
    No one would want anything permanently stuck on our body (except tattoos). There are movies about this, even old ones.

    There would be no more anonymity (which can even be more valuable than many other things) or privacy if our public keys (or private keys) are embedded in our body.

    A token might work, but people would be sure to shield them (like RFID passports and credit cards smart cards.)
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    October 01, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
     #36
    This is an important conversation to be having!

    I've been concerned about the large blockchain since I first started studying and using bitcoin in 2011.  I recently installed the Satoshi client on a new PC and it took many hours to download/calculate the blockchain.  With so many users now having fast broadband Internet access, the size of the chain isn't the killer.  It is the huge I/O tasks involved.  I have been trying the Satoshi client out in a Virtual Box Windows 7 image and it is nearly unusable for 2-3 hours if I haven't run it for a few days and the client has to catch back up.  The hard drive just is maxed out making the physical machine nearly unusable.  I've been looking at alternative clients that don't require the full block chain and am glad to see work progressing in that area.

  • Mushoz
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    October 01, 2012, 08:48:30 PM
     #37
    Quote from: ragnard on October 01, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
    This is an important conversation to be having!

    I've been concerned about the large blockchain since I first started studying and using bitcoin in 2011.  I recently installed the Satoshi client on a new PC and it took many hours to download/calculate the blockchain.  With so many users now having fast broadband Internet access, the size of the chain isn't the killer.  It is the huge I/O tasks involved.  I have been trying the Satoshi client out in a Virtual Box Windows 7 image and it is nearly unusable for 2-3 hours if I haven't run it for a few days and the client has to catch back up.  The hard drive just is maxed out making the physical machine nearly unusable.  I've been looking at alternative clients that don't require the full block chain and am glad to see work progressing in that area.

    In the next release, they will most likely make the switch to levelDB, which will be significantly faster in disk I/O. Smiley
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  • SgtSpike
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    October 01, 2012, 09:03:27 PM
     #38
    Quote from: ragnard on October 01, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
    This is an important conversation to be having!

    I've been concerned about the large blockchain since I first started studying and using bitcoin in 2011.  I recently installed the Satoshi client on a new PC and it took many hours to download/calculate the blockchain.  With so many users now having fast broadband Internet access, the size of the chain isn't the killer.  It is the huge I/O tasks involved.  I have been trying the Satoshi client out in a Virtual Box Windows 7 image and it is nearly unusable for 2-3 hours if I haven't run it for a few days and the client has to catch back up.  The hard drive just is maxed out making the physical machine nearly unusable.  I've been looking at alternative clients that don't require the full block chain and am glad to see work progressing in that area.
    It is pretty amazing how long it takes these days... I had a client that was updated through block 135,000 or so, then turned off for months.  Started it back up the other day, and it took 3 days on a 1TB WD Black drive to finally get up to date - HDD crunching away the whole time.

  • ragnard
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    October 01, 2012, 09:03:44 PM
     #39
    Quote from: Mushoz on October 01, 2012, 08:48:30 PM
    In the next release, they will most likely make the switch to levelDB, which will be significantly faster in disk I/O. Smiley

    This is very good news indeed!

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    October 02, 2012, 03:02:54 AM
     #40
    If you have the RAM and hardware, maybe put your datadir inside a ramdrive. At least until it was updated.
    Escrow Service (Historical) - Feed Some Children by Dabs (Historical) - GPG ID: 32AD7565, OTC ID: Dabs
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