Should mine on Eligius or P2Pool, both of which pay miners
directly from the coinbase generation transaction. No middleman for the majority of payouts, can look at your miner's debug logs (or other tool) to see exactly who you're working to pay.
At the very least, mine on a pool with a good track record. I could see stuff like this becoming a trend.
"majority"
Except Eligius doesn't ... sometimes, and the coins can spend months waiting for the eligius middleman to send them to miners ... as you well know yourself.
Since, as with any pool, there's the question of how much you are paid ... there's also the obvious point about the long term luck of the pool, that is under the control of the pool.
Yes you may like to pretend that everything that happens at your pool is luck, but that's a lie.
For the last year (most likely years) your pool block change times have been terrible and part of the cause of the low "luck".
You have only recently made any reasonable changes regarding that (in the last month or so)
Your changes before that, in the previous years, to over come the shortcomings of your pool software, were (among other thing) to:
1) For 5 months only allow 32 transactions per block
2) For years and still currently, mine empty blocks every network block change, yet your block change times are still slow using this, bad for bitcoin, excuse.
You even effectively made the most ridiculous statement about your own pool payouts trying to point out a short coming of PPS
...
Antpool and f2pool also don't pay transaction fees to miners. This is going to become more important, especially after the next reward halving.
Your pool pays less than PPS with an absolute maximum limit of PPS ... so when reward halves, so does your pool payout ... just like it does for Antpool and f2pool and for the same reason.
... and as with most limit functions ... limits are rarely reached.
Hi Kano,
I am new to Bitcoin mining with only a few GH/s hashrate. I have tried some pools and I finally chose to mine on Eligius pool. I believe it is the most fair pool for miner with low hashrate like me. Looking at the total hashrate, I believe the miners trust Eligius more than other pools run by volunteers, which is much more than the total hashrate of for instance CKPool.
I didn't try CKPool as I believe I would not get the payout for whole shares due to my low hashrate. The other reason I didn't try CKPool is your comments toward Eligius pool like I quoted above, which I found them mostly offensive so that do not help me to get fair perspective. But perhaps that is due to my lack of understanding. So if you don't mind to explain why do you think CKPool is better than Eligius in term of the payout using the example below, I would really appreciate that.
Suppose Eligius pool finds a new and valid block on the 12th week. In the the previous 12 weeks, I submitted 1,000,000 valid shares each week and my total shares value exceeds the payout threshold on the 8th week. From what I experience, the whole of that 12,000,000 shares is being paid out on that 12th week, without any deduction for fee.
I still cannot entirely understand the payment scheme explained on CKPool site. But I believe I would get less payout on CKPool for the same scenario above. If not, could you please explain how much I would get from CKPool for the above scenario?
Cheers,
Anto
Mornig Anto,
I am not going going to answer for Kano here. But this is a Nexious Pool thread. Well was a nexious pool thread. You would most likely get a better and quicker response if you asked him directly under his pools thread which can be found here
https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/789369.0. But I do know that Kano's pool pays out like this.
Kano's Pool uses PPLNS (Pay Per Last N Shares)
PPLNS means that when a block is found, the block reward is shared among the last N shares that miners sent to the pool, up to when the block was found.
The N value the pool uses is 5 times the network difficulty when the block is found - '5Nd'.
The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares, each time a block is found.
So each share will be paid appoximately 1/5 of it's expected value, in each block it gets a reward,
but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.
i.e. if pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.
If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times.
If pool luck is lower than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.
What is the 5Nd you may ask.
The current Bitcoin network value for Nd is 65,848,255,179.7 and thus 5Nd is 329,241,275,898.5
Bitcoin adjusts the Nd value every 2016 blocks, which is about every 2 weeks.
When a block is found, the reward process counts back shifts until the total share difficulty included is 5Nd.
Since shares are summarised into shifts, it will include the full shift at the end of the range counting backwards,
so it usually will be a bit more than 5Nd.
And here is how Eligus pays out.
Basic Idea
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
Whenever a block is found, the most recent 25 BTC (a CPPSRB round; one block reward/subsidy) worth of unpaid shares are paid.
Using the proportional concept of rounds, a long round results in the earlier shares being shoved into storage (shelved) rather than paid by the block, and a short round pays the entire round plus the most recent "storage" (shelved) shares found which were not already paid.
Compared to PPLNS, no share is ever paid twice, but old shares (that missed out on being rewarded due to poor luck in the past) have a chance to be paid when the pool is lucky.
Pseudo Code
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
When a block is found:
Go back 25 BTC into the share log, and reward those at PPS price.
Delete those shares from the log
If the entire database was paid and there are still funds left, include it in the next block's reward
When a block is orphaned:
Undelete the shares rewarded for it
In simple terms, what is a summary of CPPSRB?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
CPPSRB is a Maximum Pay-Per-Share reward system variant (MPPS). The pool will pay miners as much as is possible using the income from finding blocks, but the pool can never go bankrupt because of high variance and miners have lower variance overall than other reward systems, such as proportional, PPLNS, DGM, etc.
What is this "Shelved Shares" business?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
Shelved Shares are simply shares that you have somewhere in the full pool share log that are not yet close enough to the top of the share log to be paid when the next block is found.
How am I paid for my Shelved Shares?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
CPPSRB shares are paid in a last-in-first-out order. When a block is found, the share log is processed from the top downward and shares are paid until one full block reward (25 BTC now) worth of shares are paid. If the current round is a "lucky" round (ie: it took less than 1*network_difficuly shares to find the block) then the top of the share log will contain shares from the current round AND some shelved shares from previous rounds, which will then be paid.
So the short answer is: Some amount of shelved shares are paid for every lucky block (on the stats page, a block with a luck > 100%). Depending on how far down in the share log your shelved shares are determines if they're paid by the current block or not. (See your userstats page and note the estimated change in shelved shares. Negative means that amount will be paid if a block is found now.) (In the works: Share log visualization)
Does the pool *owe* me payout of my Shelved Shares?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
No. The shelved shares are shares that pool itself never received any funds to pay in the first place. The only way shelved shares can be paid is as described above. (If someone of course wanted to donate bitcoins to the pool buffer, then of course more would be paid.)
Do my shares retain their value from the time they were mined regardless of difficulty changes in the future?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
Back to Top
How does CPPSRB compare to straight PPS?
Capped PPS with Recent Backpay
With "straight PPS" the pool takes the risk of paying miners during unlucky rounds and recovering the losses during lucky rounds. with CPPSRB, the pool only pays miners as much as is possible during unlucky rounds, and makes up the difference through "shelved shares", which are paid during lucky rounds.
Since Eligius has no mining fees, your shares are put in the share log at 100% PPS. Over time, payouts will average out to as if you had mined at 100% "straight PPS", or close to it, depending on luck.
It is useful to note that it is statistically impossible to offer and run a 100% (or higher) "straight PPS" pool indefinitely, where CPPSRB can run indefinitely with no risk to the pool or miners of not being paid their fair share for their work.
I hope this clears up your questions
