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    Author Topic: Blocks are full.  (Read 15014 times)

    • Alley
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    March 02, 2016, 08:49:13 PM
     #281
    I generally dismiss people running sig campaigns.  They are moslty just posting anything to get the min number of words to earn a few pennies.

  • davedx
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    March 02, 2016, 09:10:01 PM
     #282
    The problem is that some people (e.g. Lauda) instantly dismiss anyone who tries to have a reasonable discussion with them as being a shill, troll, or whatever.

    Onr/bitcoin you can't even mention non-core clients without your posts or comments being removed.

    On here people verbally attack you for daring to challenge the consensus.

    This isn't "consensus" you fuckwits, it's you trying to shout down anyone with a "dissenting" viewpoint from yours or Blockstream's.

    How do people explain the miners mining classic blocks right now? Is that your consensus? Are you saying the miners are as stupid as the people running the classic nodes? As the people working on forks of core? As the people who hang out inr/btc because they are censored in the "official" bitcoin subreddit?

    People have this anti-intellectual "us or them" mentality that prevents real discussion of the technical merits of each strategy.

    FWIW I can't help feeling a bit of schadenfreude at this so-called "spam attack", after my and my friend's classic nodes were repeatedly DDOS'd over the past week.
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  • David Rabahy
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    March 02, 2016, 09:23:01 PM
     #283
    This is really interesting.  I started running Classic recently and I too feel like I might have been the target of a DoS attack the last couple of days; my router/firewall has been reporting lots of teardrop attacks (way more than ever before) and as such has been less responsive than before.  How does one determine they are being attacked for sure?

  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 09:26:16 PM
     #284
    Quote from: David Rabahy on March 02, 2016, 09:23:01 PM
    This is really interesting.  I started running Classic recently and I too feel like I might have been the target of a DoS attack the last couple of days; my router/firewall has been reporting lots of teardrop attacks (way more than ever before) and as such has been less responsive than before.  How does one determine they are being attacked for sure?
    http://nodecounter.com/how_to_defeat_ddos_attacks_against_bitcoin_classic.php
    pgp

  • ShrykeZ
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    March 02, 2016, 09:28:02 PM
     #285
    Quote from: Cryptology on January 20, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
    Right now Bitcoin's price is rallying and block are full. According to blockchain.info backlog of unconfirmed transactions is 11.6 MB right now and as far as I know there is now spam or stress test going on. How worse does it need to get?

    This is just a spam attack on the network, nothing more.

  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 09:30:38 PM
     #286
    Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 02, 2016, 09:28:02 PM
    Quote from: Cryptology on January 20, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
    Right now Bitcoin's price is rallying and block are full. According to blockchain.info backlog of unconfirmed transactions is 11.6 MB right now and as far as I know there is now spam or stress test going on. How worse does it need to get?

    This is just a spam attack on the network, nothing more.
    Definitely needs a block-size limit increase
    pgp

  • Lauda
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    March 02, 2016, 09:35:13 PM
     #287
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:30:38 PM
    Definitely needs a block-size limit increase
    Which effectively does nothing in the case of an attack. A block size limit increase does not prevent these types of attacks.

    Quote from: davedx on March 02, 2016, 09:10:01 PM
    The problem is that some people (e.g. Lauda) instantly dismiss anyone who tries to have a reasonable discussion with them as being a shill, troll, or whatever.
    Disagreeing is one thing, refusing to listen to reason and evidence is another.

    Quote from: davedx on March 02, 2016, 09:10:01 PM
    Onr/bitcoin you can't even mention non-core clients without your posts or comments being removed.
    Censorship is present onr/btc.

    Quote from: ShrykeZ on March 02, 2016, 09:28:02 PM
    This is just a spam attack on the network, nothing more.
    Correct.

    Quote from: RealBitcoin on March 02, 2016, 06:21:26 PM
    Luckily 'btc' has less google seraches than 'bitcoin' , so most newbies will more likely joinbitcoin subreddit after their first google search.
    /r/btc is very toxic and should be avoided in any case, especially for new users.
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  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
     #288
    Lauda you must be lawyer right ? I did not say that the block-size increase will prevent spam but it will help to have a smooth network operation,Censorship is present onr/btc. it is obvious that r/bitcoin is censorship,if you think the Censorship is present onr/btc and not on r/bitcoin you just dreaming,let see things as they are and not as we would like to be
    pgp

  • Lauda
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    March 02, 2016, 09:53:18 PM
     #289
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    Lauda you must be lawyer right?
    I'm a lot of things, but that is not one of them.

    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    I did not say that the block-size increase will prevent spam but it will help to have a smooth network operation.
    I assumed that you think that an increase will solve the 'problems'/prevent attacks such as the one that occurred yesterday (which is the case with a lot of people). It is good that you understand that it won't. However, a block size limit increase is not necessary right now as Segwit will be implemented first which should increase the transaction capacity of the network. Theoretically (considering how resourceful some people are) the blocks could be always full.

    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    if you think the Censorship is present onr/btc and not on r/bitcoin you just dreaming,let see things as they are and not as we would like to be
    I never said such. However, I've seen a decent amount of 'people' complaining aboutr/bitcoin and usingr/btc even though problems are present on both. Try posting something positive about Core onr/btc and tell me what happens.
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  • Alley
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    March 02, 2016, 09:53:45 PM
     #290
    A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?

  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
     #291
    Quote from: Lauda on March 02, 2016, 09:53:18 PM
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    Lauda you must be lawyer right?
    I'm a lot of things, but that is not one of them.

    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    I did not say that the block-size increase will prevent spam but it will help to have a smooth network operation.
    I assumed that you think that an increase will solve the 'problems'/prevent attacks such as the one that occurred yesterday (which is the case with a lot of people). It is good that you understand that it won't. However, a block size limit increase is not necessary right now as Segwit will be implemented first which should increase the transaction capacity of the network. Theoretically (considering how resourceful some people are) the blocks could be always full.

    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
    if you think the Censorship is present onr/btc and not on r/bitcoin you just dreaming,let see things as they are and not as we would like to be
    I never said such. However, I've seen a decent amount of 'people' complaining aboutr/bitcoin and usingr/btc even though problems are present on both. Try posting something positive about Core onr/btc and tell me what happens.
    I dont say can solve problem like prevent attacks,Segwit is good idea but an increase would required,you have try to post on r/bitcoin about xt or classic ?
    pgp

  • Blawpaw
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    March 02, 2016, 10:07:44 PM
     #292
    yes. that is something that the developers have been warning for some time now. ANd that is also why it is urgent to have a block size increase.

  • Lauda
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    March 02, 2016, 10:09:57 PM
     #293
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
    Segwit is good idea but an increase would required
    Segwit should increase the transaction capacity to ~180-190% (or even more depending on use cases). This is close enough to a 2 MB block size limit (keep in mind that there is no guarantee that miners won't use their soft limits again). An increase is most likely going to happen, the question is just when.

    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
    you have try to post on r/bitcoin about xt or classic ?
    You should know how contentious HF's are viewed in these places by now. Implementations that don't break consensus are allowed (AFAIK). I'm not involved in either subreddit so I can't say much.

    Quote from: Alley on March 02, 2016, 09:53:45 PM
    A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?
    Not necessarily.

    Quote from: Blawpaw on March 02, 2016, 10:07:44 PM
    ANd that is also why it is urgent to have a block size increase.
    No.
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  • Dissonance
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    March 02, 2016, 10:10:05 PM
     #294
    Quote from: Alley on March 02, 2016, 09:53:45 PM
    A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?

    Bingo... a 2MB block is significantly more expensive to fill.  Lets assume the average block size is about ~.2/3 filled a spammer only has to fill ~1/3MB.  If the block is 2MB that requires 4x the money.  Does it stop it no...but it makes it alot harder.

  • David Rabahy
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    March 02, 2016, 10:13:34 PM
     #295
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 09:26:16 PM
    Quote from: David Rabahy on March 02, 2016, 09:23:01 PM
    This is really interesting.  I started running Classic recently and I too feel like I might have been the target of a DoS attack the last couple of days; my router/firewall has been reporting lots of teardrop attacks (way more than ever before) and as such has been less responsive than before.  How does one determine they are being attacked for sure?
    http://nodecounter.com/how_to_defeat_ddos_attacks_against_bitcoin_classic.php
    That really does not seem right; both sides could do that.  Soon we will need PoW or something to vote.

  • David Rabahy
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    March 02, 2016, 10:19:43 PM
     #296
    Quote from: Alley on March 02, 2016, 09:53:45 PM
    A larger blocksize will make a spam attack more expensive, no?
    Maybe.  Maybe not.  The cost of a spam attack depends on the fees associated with the transactions.  With a bigger block size perhaps the spammer could get away with smaller fees.  If the fees are smaller enough then it could more than offset the larger block size.  If only things were simple.

  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 10:23:19 PM
     #297
    Quote from: Lauda on March 02, 2016, 10:09:57 PM
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
    Segwit is good idea but an increase would required
    Segwit should increase the transaction capacity to ~180-190% (or even more depending on use cases). This is close enough to a 2 MB block size limit (keep in mind that there is no guarantee that miners won't use their soft limits again). An increase is most likely going to happen, the question is just when.
    Quote
    I know about Segwit,in my opinion in the near future we should find a definitively solution regarding the incease,so the future we can be able to deal with different problems that may occur, and not to keep in mind the block-size problem
    pgp

  • RealBitcoin
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    March 02, 2016, 10:34:33 PM
     #298
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:23:19 PM
    Quote from: Lauda on March 02, 2016, 10:09:57 PM
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
    Segwit is good idea but an increase would required
    Segwit should increase the transaction capacity to ~180-190% (or even more depending on use cases). This is close enough to a 2 MB block size limit (keep in mind that there is no guarantee that miners won't use their soft limits again). An increase is most likely going to happen, the question is just when.
    Quote
    I know about Segwit,in my opinion in the near future we should find a definitively solution regarding the incease,so the future we can be able to deal with different problems that may occur, and not to keep in mind the block-size problem

    If it will be necessary to raise blocks then it will be, but better raise them later than now because i heard that many vulnerabilities could occur that way, which could endanger the system.

    It needs way more testing, and a hard fork is hard to orchestrate and can hurt bitcoin very badly, so its only a last case scenario.

  • chrisvl
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    March 02, 2016, 10:43:15 PM
     #299
    Quote from: RealBitcoin on March 02, 2016, 10:34:33 PM
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:23:19 PM
    Quote from: Lauda on March 02, 2016, 10:09:57 PM
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:01:48 PM
    Segwit is good idea but an increase would required
    Segwit should increase the transaction capacity to ~180-190% (or even more depending on use cases). This is close enough to a 2 MB block size limit (keep in mind that there is no guarantee that miners won't use their soft limits again). An increase is most likely going to happen, the question is just when.
    Quote
    I know about Segwit,in my opinion in the near future we should find a definitively solution regarding the incease,so the future we can be able to deal with different problems that may occur, and not to keep in mind the block-size problem

    If it will be necessary to raise blocks then it will be, but better raise them later than now because i heard that many vulnerabilities could occur that way, which could endanger the system.

    It needs way more testing, and a hard fork is hard to orchestrate and can hurt bitcoin very badly, so its only a last case scenario.
    I do not think that a hard fork can hurt bitcoin,however a hard fork is required,vulnerabilities like ?
    pgp

  • RealBitcoin
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    March 02, 2016, 10:53:36 PM
    Last edit: March 02, 2016, 11:13:15 PM by RealBitcoin
     #300
    Quote from: chrisvl on March 02, 2016, 10:43:15 PM

    I do not think that a hard fork can hurt bitcoin,however a hard fork is required,vulnerabilities like ?

    there is something about network propagation rate or something like that and about orphan blocks.

    I`m not an expert on this, but there are vulnerabilities.


    TXs dropped from yesterday 1.7/s to 0.3/s, I think the spam is over
    https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions
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