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    Author Topic: To Secure Big BTC amounts (>50k) one should run 1. own Node, 2. ...?  (Read 1172 times)

    • hv_ (OP)
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    February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
     #1
    In order to better secure a big chunks of BTC, I'd say it should be a good idea to check your own wealth by running

    1. your own node, with some software on top that very regular checks if your stake is still yours (big business like exchanges are hopefully doing that, correct?).  Costs of that is minimal.

    2. ... ? I can only think of running a big mining pool (5-10% of hashpool might be ok) is the most secure way of keeping things yours, but that is most expensive Option, but could also pay back, if you can get cheap Power!

    Is there sth. else one could do?

    I was just thinking about getting around the decentralisation issue by bringing in 'big' players and really with point 2. AND big money the system gets safer and shared better (than just right now, where about 60% of mining power is concentrated).

    If just 10-20 big players (home offices, Magnetes, ...) would do so - each separately- BTC would do really well.

    Anyone can calculate what minimum cash (buy Miners) would be needed for ensuring all that?

    Next, who might be those big ones?
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  • shorena
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    February 24, 2016, 09:13:31 PM
     #2
    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    In order to better secure a big chunks of BTC, I'd say it should be a good idea to check your own wealth by running

    ...better than what?

    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    1. your own node, with some software on top that very regular checks if your stake is still yours (big business like exchanges are hopefully doing that, correct?).  Costs of that is minimal.

    Sounds like an online solution, any particular reason for that?

    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    2. ... ? I can only think of running a big mining pool (5-10% of hashpool might be ok) is the most secure way of keeping things yours, but that is most expensive Option, but could also pay back, if you can get cheap Power!

    Is there sth. else one could do?

    I was just thinking about getting around the decentralisation issue by bringing in 'big' players and really with point 2. AND big money the system gets safer and shared better (than just right now, where about 60% of mining power is concentrated).

    If just 10-20 big players (home offices, Magnetes, ...) would do so - each separately- BTC would do really well.

    Anyone can calculate what minimum cash (buy Miners) would be needed for ensuring all that?

    Next, who might be those big ones?

    Mining? How is that adding to the security of the coins?
    Im not really here, its just your imagination.

  • spazzdla
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    February 24, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
     #3
    Create a wallet on an OFFLINE COMPUTER.

    Destroy hard drive it was created on...

    The best bet would be to make a faridi cage, create in there and destroy everything before leaving(use a Rasp-pi it's cheap) except the ENCRYPTED private key and your public key.   Make copies. Write down the pass, never type it onto a computer. 

  • hv_ (OP)
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    February 24, 2016, 09:51:56 PM
     #4
    Quote from: spazzdla on February 24, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
    Create a wallet on an OFFLINE COMPUTER.

    Destroy hard drive it was created on...

    The best bet would be to make a faridi cage, create in there and destroy everything before leaving(use a Rasp-pi it's cheap) except the ENCRYPTED private key and your public key.   Make copies. Write down the pass, never type it onto a computer. 

    Yes, that was supposed to be basic. I'm more interested of fixing attacks from miner side (51% attack) or similar things.
    Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
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  • hv_ (OP)
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    February 24, 2016, 09:53:54 PM
     #5
    Quote from: shorena on February 24, 2016, 09:13:31 PM
    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    In order to better secure a big chunks of BTC, I'd say it should be a good idea to check your own wealth by running

    ...better than what?

    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    1. your own node, with some software on top that very regular checks if your stake is still yours (big business like exchanges are hopefully doing that, correct?).  Costs of that is minimal.

    Sounds like an online solution, any particular reason for that?

    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
    2. ... ? I can only think of running a big mining pool (5-10% of hashpool might be ok) is the most secure way of keeping things yours, but that is most expensive Option, but could also pay back, if you can get cheap Power!

    Is there sth. else one could do?

    I was just thinking about getting around the decentralisation issue by bringing in 'big' players and really with point 2. AND big money the system gets safer and shared better (than just right now, where about 60% of mining power is concentrated).

    If just 10-20 big players (home offices, Magnetes, ...) would do so - each separately- BTC would do really well.

    Anyone can calculate what minimum cash (buy Miners) would be needed for ensuring all that?

    Next, who might be those big ones?

    Mining? How is that adding to the security of the coins?

    If you have more than 50% haspower, its secure for you.
    Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
    Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
    The simple way is the genius way - Satoshi's Rules: humana veris _

  • shorena
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    February 25, 2016, 08:40:26 AM
     #6
    Quote from: hv_ on February 24, 2016, 09:53:54 PM
    -snip-
    If you have more than 50% haspower, its secure for you.

    If your idea of "security" is "complete control over the network" you might have a hard time with bitcoin and security.
    Im not really here, its just your imagination.

  • pedrog
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    February 25, 2016, 09:00:49 AM
     #7
    I'm pretty sure obtaining 50% network hash power costs way more than 20 million, like a lot more!

    BTW, 51% attack not really a problem.

  • ATguy
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    February 25, 2016, 09:27:13 AM
     #8
    Monitoring your coins with full node to checks if your coins are still yours is easy but you cant do anything when you detect there is transaction which spending your coins, even 5-10% of hashpower can not guarantee such transaction is not added to blockchain.

    But running full node or mining is helping Bitcoin security, so wise for any holder to help this way Bitcoin a bit.
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  • hv_ (OP)
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    February 25, 2016, 10:52:10 AM
     #9
    Quote from: ATguy on February 25, 2016, 09:27:13 AM
    Monitoring your coins with full node to checks if your coins are still yours is easy but you cant do anything when you detect there is transaction which spending your coins, even 5-10% of hashpower can not guarantee such transaction is not added to blockchain.

    But running full node or mining is helping Bitcoin security, so wise for any holder to help this way Bitcoin a bit.

    Since we've seen buddys come 'all' round-tableing together on a real issue (and this is one!), I'd strongly assume - that's gonna hapen exactly in such a case again.

    You've just to put on spot & make a big noise - and trust might be gone for all.

    So you can simply secure a bunch of money with another bunch - always - nothing new.
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  • watashi-kokoto
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    February 25, 2016, 10:54:30 AM
     #10
    Quote from: hv_ on February 25, 2016, 10:52:10 AM

    Since we've seen buddys come 'all' round-tableing together on a real issue (and this is one!), I'd strongly assume - that's gonna hapen exactly in such a case again.

    You've just to put on spot & make a big noise - and trust might be gone for all.

    So you can simply secure a bunch of money with another bunch - always - nothing new.

    I don't understand what are you trying to say.

    If you want to secure your funds, use a paper wallet, or hold funds on your own computer, disconnected from the internet.

    Your other  stupid ideas are completely bad to be honest.

  • hv_ (OP)
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    February 25, 2016, 11:09:05 AM
     #11
    Quote from: watashi-kokoto on February 25, 2016, 10:54:30 AM
    Quote from: hv_ on February 25, 2016, 10:52:10 AM

    Since we've seen buddys come 'all' round-tableing together on a real issue (and this is one!), I'd strongly assume - that's gonna hapen exactly in such a case again.

    You've just to put on spot & make a big noise - and trust might be gone for all.

    So you can simply secure a bunch of money with another bunch - always - nothing new.

    I don't understand what are you trying to say.

    If you want to secure your funds, use a paper wallet, or hold funds on your own computer, disconnected from the internet.

    Your other  stupid ideas are completely bad to be honest.

    Sorry - I'm not thinking of stealing coins by grabbing your private keys - rather by doing a 51% hashpower attak selfish mining and modify the block-chain to what you'd like to and steal the coins that way.

    So the only way I see to get around that is breaking up the existing hashpower concentration by mining  yourself, ideally own 50%.

    That's not really possible so I think 5-10% should be fine and 10 - 20 such big players should do so. I'm not saying that that's not already the case.


    One of those players could be some Fonds that now can advertise by having their own mining showing that they are looking at securing wealth in BTC.
    I'd rather invest only in such ones.
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  • watashi-kokoto
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    February 25, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
     #12
    Funds cannot be stolen in 51% attacks.

    The majority can simply do double-spends, waiting enough confirmations solves this problem.

  • hv_ (OP)
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    February 25, 2016, 02:48:16 PM
     #13
    Quote from: watashi-kokoto on February 25, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
    Funds cannot be stolen in 51% attacks.

    The majority can simply do double-spends, waiting enough confirmations solves this problem.



    On a selfish mining + 51% attack you might wait for 'ever'....
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  • pedrog
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    February 25, 2016, 02:52:10 PM
    Last edit: February 25, 2016, 03:07:25 PM by pedrog
     #14
    Quote from: hv_ on February 25, 2016, 02:48:16 PM
    Quote from: watashi-kokoto on February 25, 2016, 12:04:53 PM
    Funds cannot be stolen in 51% attacks.

    The majority can simply do double-spends, waiting enough confirmations solves this problem.



    On a selfish mining + 51% attack you might wait for 'ever'....

    51% attack cannot be done forever.

    Is there any case study of a 51% attack successfully done on any cryptocurrency ever?

  • seedtrue
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    February 25, 2016, 03:00:28 PM
     #15
    Quote from: spazzdla on February 24, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
    Create a wallet on an OFFLINE COMPUTER.

    Destroy hard drive it was created on...

    The best bet would be to make a faridi cage, create in there and destroy everything before leaving(use a Rasp-pi it's cheap) except the ENCRYPTED private key and your public key.   Make copies. Write down the pass, never type it onto a computer. 

    This seems a little extreme to me. I don't see the need to "destroy" everything. Unless you are worried about someone kicking in your door and stealing all your hardware, and if so....you have other issues that need to be addressed.

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    February 25, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
     #16
    Big amounts and small amounts are kept safe in the same way.
    If you make yourself a good number of paper wallets and fill them with random amounts, it's already a good start.
    If you own a lot of BTC, you can afford the best hardware wallet for the daily expenses.

    I suggest you read (a lot) more on this subject, since your questions show that you are complete newbie.

    Quote from: seedtrue on February 25, 2016, 03:00:28 PM
    Quote from: spazzdla on February 24, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
    Create a wallet on an OFFLINE COMPUTER.

    Destroy hard drive it was created on...
    This seems a little extreme to me. I don't see the need to "destroy" everything. Unless you are worried about someone kicking in your door and stealing all your hardware, and if so....you have other issues that need to be addressed.

    Actually any deleted file in normal ways is still there on HDD for quite some time and somebody can retrieve it if he has access to the computer.
    However, nowadays there are virtual computers you can make, use, then destroy and it's just fine.
    Of you can just wipe the free space after deleting the files.
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  • Kprawn
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    February 25, 2016, 03:05:44 PM
     #17
    The 51% attack is a myth conjured up by the Bitcoin shills.  Roll Eyes It is in nobody's interest to do that, and even if they managed to do that, they would not succeed for a

    long time, people will simply leave those pools, if it was a problem. So far this strategy worked and people can see that it would be stupid to execute a 51% attack and

    have people losing confidence in the technology and selling their coins. In the end you will sit with worthless coins, if everyone else left. The developers also said, they

    have other counter measures to prevent such an attack...  Huh
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    February 25, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
     #18
    Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 25, 2016, 03:05:30 PM
    Big amounts and small amounts are kept safe in the same way.
    If you make yourself a good number of paper wallets and fill them with random amounts, it's already a good start.
    If you own a lot of BTC, you can afford the best hardware wallet for the daily expenses.

    I suggest you read (a lot) more on this subject, since your questions show that you are complete newbie.

    Quote from: seedtrue on February 25, 2016, 03:00:28 PM
    Quote from: spazzdla on February 24, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
    Create a wallet on an OFFLINE COMPUTER.

    Destroy hard drive it was created on...
    This seems a little extreme to me. I don't see the need to "destroy" everything. Unless you are worried about someone kicking in your door and stealing all your hardware, and if so....you have other issues that need to be addressed.

    Actually any deleted file in normal ways is still there on HDD for quite some time and somebody can retrieve it if he has access to the computer.
    However, nowadays there are virtual computers you can make, use, then destroy and it's just fine.
    Of you can just wipe the free space after deleting the files.

    I know that erased data can be recovered. But someone needs access to the hardware to recover it. If you use a offline computer that you decide to never give online access again, I do not see the need to physically destroy anything. I really doubt someone is going to kick in my door and say "give me all your hard-drives". And if they do......lets just say I have something waiting for them.

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    February 25, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
     #19
    It's difficult to compete with the Chinese miners. I think their government is building 170 new coal fired generators, and they are increasing non-fossil fuel generation ( mainly hydro and nuclear I believe). They don't need that electricity, but the government guarantees the purchase price, and it is sold at low prices. Electricity is a major cost for mining groups.
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    February 25, 2016, 03:26:43 PM
     #20
    Quote from: seedtrue on February 25, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
    I know that erased data can be recovered. But someone needs access to the hardware to recover it. If you use a offline computer that you decide to never give online access again, I do not see the need to physically destroy anything. I really doubt someone is going to kick in my door and say "give me all your hard-drives". And if they do......lets just say I have something waiting for them.

    Yes, but you will cry if in a couple of years your son will see some dusty HDDs and will sell them to buy some booze, you know... Smiley
    That's why best is to wipe your data before you forget about that.
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