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    Author Topic: Bitcoin as national payment system ?  (Read 6174 times)

    • Vic (OP)
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    October 14, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
     #1
    Hi

    I am new in Bitcoins, but I represent Wirtland and I see a lot of synergy for promotion of bitcoins in Wirtland. Wirtland is the largest web micronation which has about 1500 citizens from all five continents and growing fastly. BTW in 2009 Wirtland became world's first micronation to produce its own physical gold and silver coins. More info on Wirtland can be found in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtland_(micronation) (and from our sites, see bottom)

    Recently a Wirtland member from Greece posted on our forum that Wirtland may be an ideal place for mass use and promotion of Bitcoins. Do you agree there may be possibilities for cooperation or at least for cross-promotion of Bitcoins in Wirtland?

    If yes, I suggest to use this thread to develop consolidated cooperation proposal which can be sent to Wirtland.

    Thanks,

    Vic

    PS. If moderator considers my thread irrelevant, feel free to delete.

  • db
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    October 14, 2010, 11:40:57 PM
     #2
    Bitcoin seems to be an ideal currency for Wirtland. No formal cooperation is necessary; just start using it and/or declare it an official currency. Formal cooperation is not even possible considering that there is no formal Bitcoin organization and no one in control of the currency.

  • Drifter
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    October 14, 2010, 11:54:04 PM
    Last edit: October 15, 2010, 12:43:05 AM by Drifter
     #3
    Bitcoin and Wirtland are two entirely different "projects", but they fit together wonderfully. Wirtland is looking for an ideal system for a global, electronic currency. Bitcoin is looking for members and a user base in which has purpose to use Bitcoin on a consistent basis.

    Wirtland and Bitcoin do not have to work together for this to work, either. If a proposal is made towards Wirtland about Bitcoins that they like, they can adopt their new currency without any necessary permissions. Just run the program and start your financial venture.

    Bitcoin businesses automatically become businesses in which "Wirtizens" can spend money. At the same time, it's another 1,000+ members that become users of Bitcoin if they're dedicated to their online community.

    I feel Wirtland has a lot fo gain by adopting Bitcoin, as does the Bitcoin community, and all that needs to be done is convincing Wirtland that it will be beneficial for all parties.
    Bitcoin.it Wiki

  • FreeMoney
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    October 15, 2010, 12:13:17 AM
     #4
    I had a passing thought a while back that there could be many 'brandings' of bitcoin, but dismissed it as pointlessly confusing. It might work to get possibly non-crypto-minded Wirtizens to adopt it.

    It would go like this:

    Wirtland administration checks it out, sees it is legit and is a great idea.

    Someone modifies the client slightly to say "Wirtcoin" or something and a new logo, etc.

    Wirtizens trust, download from the Wirt site, and adopt.

    It would essentially be the same as a normal government declaring gold or something to be the national currency and stamping some of the coins, but accepting any standardized gold.
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  • FreeMoney
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    October 15, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
     #5
    Quote from: davidonpda on October 15, 2010, 12:18:43 AM
    Welcome,

    Interesting project. I hope you find what we have already established useful and can consider this as a currency for your micronation.

    What an awesome concept that a group of individuals not bonded by geographical area, could trade an electronic currency freely and easily.


    In regard to the rebranding, this is what a client may be able to do, that doesn't have the generation function. Generation is only a means for progressing the block chain and allowing transactions to be accepted and secured. I believe it is not meant for the majority of users to do it. The average joe would only use it as a means to store and transfer coins. I don't see how it would hurt to have a Wirtizen's client, powered by bitcoin (maybe even say something like that?)

    Sure, I don't mean anything but changing the words and logo, the client would function exactly as normal. Not a new chain or different rules or anything like that. And bitcoin should be mentioned somewhere so people can meet us if they want to ;-)
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  • Anonymous
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    October 15, 2010, 02:37:54 AM
     #6
    Just start a web based digital locker for wirtizens and they dont even have to download a client if they dont want to.

    You dont need any permission or collaboration to do anything. Thats the beauty of bitcoin. Smiley

  • caveden
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    October 15, 2010, 07:05:02 AM
     #7
    If you want to invent a "free micronation", don't define an official, mandatory currency. The more free people are to adopt new currencies the best.

    That said, I think bitcoin is the best possible currency available today, to my knowledge. Smiley

    And the idea of a "Wirtcoin" label over it is nice.

  • ribuck
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    October 15, 2010, 09:48:21 AM
     #8
    Quote from: caveden on October 15, 2010, 07:05:02 AM
    And the idea of a "Wirtcoin" label over it is nice.
    "Wirtland Bitcoins" would be a better name than "Wirtcoin". If you don't have "Bitcoin" in the name somewhere, it will lead to lots of confusion, and that will hinder uptake.

  • FreeMoney
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    October 15, 2010, 10:08:58 AM
     #9
    In some areas of the USA where patriotism is high every other company is sticking America in it's name to cash in on some patriotism. Someone should make WirtlandBitcoin.com or Wirtcoin.com or Bwitcoin.com or Bwirtcoin.com or something and set up a site similar to Mybitcoin there and market to Wirtlanders.
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  • Anonymous
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    October 15, 2010, 01:00:25 PM
     #10
    I dont think "mandating" anything is a good idea however "suggesting" something is perfectly ok. A suggested currency for a wirtlander might just be bitcoin.  Grin

    If you provide people the tools they will use it of their own accord if that is the best choice for them ie the market decides. Education is always better than Mandation.

  • Vic (OP)
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    October 15, 2010, 01:12:06 PM
     #11
    My apologies for naive questions (which probably have been already answered somewhere), but they are important to explain Bitcoins to Wirtlanders.

    - There are web exchange services where people can turn virtual currencies into cash and vice versa. Are there any such services for Bitcoin?

    - Are there any banking institutions which work with Bitcoins?

    - Is there a list of merchants who accept Bitcoins?

    Thanks

  • FreeMoney
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    October 15, 2010, 01:21:36 PM
     #12
    Quote from: Vic on October 15, 2010, 01:12:06 PM
    My apologies for naive questions (which probably have been already answered somewhere), but they are important to explain Bitcoins to Wirtlanders.

    - There are web exchange services where people can turn virtual currencies into cash and vice versa. Are there any such services for Bitcoin?

    - Are there any banking institutions which work with Bitcoins?

    - Is there a list of merchants who accept Bitcoins?

    Thanks

    The markets have just been hit with fraud and are not open to newcomers right now, solutions are being researched. The trade page has a list of merchants.
    Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.

  • caveden
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    October 15, 2010, 01:43:25 PM
     #13
    Quote from: Vic on October 15, 2010, 01:12:06 PM
    - Is there a list of merchants who accept Bitcoins?

    http://www.bitcoin.org/trade

  • FreeMoney
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    October 15, 2010, 01:59:54 PM
     #14
    Quote from: davidonpda on October 15, 2010, 01:34:50 PM
    https://bitcoinmarket.com is open for registration, and is an exchange.

    http://mtgox.com was dropped from paypal but in the works of getting money back in and out.

    There are several other exchangers dealing with cash or lower volumes.


    I'm not aware of any banks accepting bitcoins.

    Check the marketplace forum, lots of stuff for sale and services that accept bitcoins.

    bitcoinmarket says "closed to new registration" on the front page.

    bitcoinexchange.com does Euros. I think it's up and running, but I haven't used it.\

    There are more than I realized, not sure how many are running. Try this list. http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/exchange/index.php
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  • The Madhatter
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    October 15, 2010, 02:20:02 PM
     #15
    Quote from: caveden on October 15, 2010, 01:43:25 PM
    Quote from: Vic on October 15, 2010, 01:12:06 PM
    - Is there a list of merchants who accept Bitcoins?

    http://www.bitcoin.org/trade

    Also http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/

    (shameless plug)

  • caveden
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    October 15, 2010, 04:08:25 PM
     #16
    Quote from: FreeMoney on October 15, 2010, 01:59:54 PM
    bitcoinexchange.com does Euros. I think it's up and running, but I haven't used it.\

    I used it recently and it worked fine.

  • MoonShadow
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    October 15, 2010, 06:37:01 PM
     #17
    Quote from: Vic on October 14, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
    Hi

    I am new in Bitcoins, but I represent Wirtland and I see a lot of synergy for promotion of bitcoins in Wirtland. Wirtland is the largest web micronation which has about 1500 citizens from all five continents and growing fastly. BTW in 2009 Wirtland became world's first micronation to produce its own physical gold and silver coins. More info on Wirtland can be found in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtland_(micronation) (and from our sites, see bottom)


    This got my attention, and want to know more about Wirtland.  Can you describe your experiences thus far?
    "The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

    - Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'

  • xc
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    October 16, 2010, 01:26:17 AM
     #18
    Quote from: FreeMoney on October 15, 2010, 12:13:17 AM
    I had a passing thought a while back that there could be many 'brandings' of bitcoin, but dismissed it as pointlessly confusing. It might work to get possibly non-crypto-minded Wirtizens to adopt it.

    It would go like this:

    Wirtland administration checks it out, sees it is legit and is a great idea.

    Someone modifies the client slightly to say "Wirtcoin" or something and a new logo, etc.

    Wirtizens trust, download from the Wirt site, and adopt.

    It would essentially be the same as a normal government declaring gold or something to be the national currency and stamping some of the coins, but accepting any standardized gold.

    Though I understand the idea to create "rebranded" bitcoins, it should be recognized that this trend follows in the footsteps of a long history of state subversion and control over free market money.  In What Has Government Done to Our Money?, Rothbard describes:

    Having acquired the mintage monopoly, governments fostered the use of the name of the monetary unit, doing their best to separate the name from its true base in the underlying weight of the coin. This, too, was a highly important step, for it liberated each government from the necessity of abiding by the common money of the world market. Instead of using grains or grams of gold or silver, each State fostered its own national name in the supposed interests of monetary patriotism: dollars, marks, francs, and the like. The shift made possible the pre-eminent means of governmental counterfeiting of coin: debasement. (http://mises.org/money/3s3.asp)

    Bitcoins are Bitcoins.  Though Wirtland sounds like a organizational affiliation based on voluntary consent , I think its important to recognize that everybody in the Bitcoin economy is better off keeping the language as simple as possible. 

    XC

  • S3052
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    October 16, 2010, 06:53:46 AM
     #19
    Quote from: xc on October 16, 2010, 01:26:17 AM


    Bitcoins are Bitcoins.  Though Wirtland sounds like a organizational affiliation based on voluntary consent , I think its important to recognize that everybody in the Bitcoin economy is better off keeping the language as simple as possible. 


    Keeping bitcoins bitcoins has a lot of advantages. 1) It's simpler and enables higher awareness, adoption, etc. It avoids a whole lot of confusion. (i.e. the mexican Peso was never rebranded to mexpeso..) 2) For wirtland citizens (and I will be applying soon ) its also better. If they want to trade outside wirtland, keeping bitcoins as a name avoids confusion.

    Net, if Wirtland does not really require to have a different name, keeping it bitcoins is a win - win.

  • FreeMoney
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    October 16, 2010, 06:57:33 AM
     #20
    I'm convinced, I no longer recommend rebranding, not that I matter too much.
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