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    Author Topic: Bitcoin is for criminals - Or so they say.  (Read 3530 times)

    • Kprawn (OP)
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    July 26, 2016, 04:15:01 PM
    Last edit: July 26, 2016, 05:00:49 PM by Kprawn
     #1
    Ok, so in every article or podcast or interview... we have to hear that Bitcoin is the preferred tool for criminals. If that was the truth, we should all be filthy rich by now... right? ....The question is, where

    are all this money from money laundering, drugs, prostitution and all the nasty stuff, Bitcoin is being blamed for.... I do not see it, do you? Should we play to our strength then, if Bitcoin is only good for

    criminal purposes? ... I mean to say, if we only attract say 10% of the total amount of money spend on drugs alone, we would most probably be millionaires in a month or two.  Roll Eyes

    " With estimates of $100 billion to $110 billion for heroin, $110 billion to $130 billion for cocaine, $75 billion for cannabis and $60 billion for synthetic drugs, the probable global figure for the total illicit

    drug industry would be approximately $360 billion.     "

    This is a tongue in the cheek poke at all those people, who points fingers at Bitcoin for being the culprit and those who are saying Bitcoin is the primary tool for criminals to do their business online.  Roll Eyes

    Can you smell the bullshit in their statements? The numbers just do not match up, with what they are saying.  Wink

    http://dcebrief.com/digital-currency-for-commerce-or-criminals/
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  • pereira4
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    July 26, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
     #2
    Everyone knows that cash is still the number 1 tool used by criminals to obtain weapons and so on, so of course Bitcoin being a tool for terrorists is very small percentage. The question is: What happens when cash is removed in the next 10 years? Then Bitcoin will be indeed the number one way for criminals to obtain weapons, that is when I think they will try to ban it on full force and we better be ready by then with a very anonymous and robust Bitcoin (this means small blocks, tor support, confidential transactions, schnorr signatures for default coinjoin... in other words we need Core team in charge).

  • serjent05
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    July 26, 2016, 04:37:29 PM
     #3
    I don't agree that bitcoin is for criminals only.  this is just some bad press that wanting to have millions of views for profit.  Either money or Bitcoins, they have been exploited to do illegal activities because of it's nature.  It is proven that bitcoin transaction isn't really anonymous..   It can be traced.  Though they prefer bitcoin because they don't have to deal with banks in transaferring  money that makes bitcoin more popular in this kind of activity.  

  • bitcapitalist
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    July 26, 2016, 04:39:27 PM
     #4
    This is funny. Actually, USD/EUR is used for illegal activities every day, you could exchange those fiats to BTC after to avoid seizure, but I don't think criminals would prefer BTC than fiat for payments.

  • Cuidler
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    July 26, 2016, 04:43:41 PM
     #5
    Quote from: pereira4 on July 26, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
    The question is: What happens when cash is removed in the next 10 years? Then Bitcoin will be indeed the number one way for criminals to obtain weapons, that is when I think they will try to ban it on full force and we better be ready by then with a very anonymous and robust Bitcoin (this means small blocks, tor support, confidential transactions, schnorr signatures for default coinjoin... in other words we need Core team in charge).

    There is no need to keep Bitcoin small (small blocks conviently syncing over tor) because smart criminals going to use the truly anonymous coins. Bitcoin with confidential transactions and coinjoin still cannot compete with truly anonymous coins like Monero for criminal activity, its not possible because of Bitcoin design. By the way I find it funny some Bitcoin small blockers are proven Monero supporters as well, and Monero have dynamical blocksize limit and have no problems to scale up, unlike 1 MB Bitcoin - good work !

    So no, Bitcoin is not going to be criminal number one choice after cash use is removed completly, there are better coin alternatives for criminals than Bitcoin so transactions cannot be tracked at all.
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  • Kprawn (OP)
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    July 26, 2016, 05:08:15 PM
     #6
    Quote from: Cuidler on July 26, 2016, 04:43:41 PM
    Quote from: pereira4 on July 26, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
    The question is: What happens when cash is removed in the next 10 years? Then Bitcoin will be indeed the number one way for criminals to obtain weapons, that is when I think they will try to ban it on full force and we better be ready by then with a very anonymous and robust Bitcoin (this means small blocks, tor support, confidential transactions, schnorr signatures for default coinjoin... in other words we need Core team in charge).

    There is no need to keep Bitcoin small (small blocks conviently syncing over tor) because smart criminals going to use the truly anonymous coins. Bitcoin with confidential transactions and coinjoin still cannot compete with truly anonymous coins like Monero for criminal activity, its not possible because of Bitcoin design. By the way I find it funny some Bitcoin small blockers are proven Monero supporters as well, and Monero have dynamical blocksize limit and have no problems to scale up, unlike 1 MB Bitcoin - good work !

    So no, Bitcoin is not going to be criminal number one choice after cash use is removed completly, there are better coin alternatives for criminals than Bitcoin so transactions cannot be tracked at all.

    People and journalists do not see the difference between these coins and Bitcoin. It will always be tied to Bitcoin in some way. If any Crypto currency is used for criminal actions, Bitcoin will be

    mentioned. As a Bitcoin community, we should stand up against this deliberate misinformation and we should put the truth out there. Mt Gox and Silkroad and all these other services are not Bitcoin, it

    was just used as a currency. So people must see the difference and they should blame the people behind it, not the technology.
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  • Sniper44
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    July 26, 2016, 05:08:21 PM
     #7
    bitcoin like any other currency is being used for illegal stuff but that doesn't make bitcoin the tool for criminals just the same way it doesn't make USD the tool for criminals.
    and even if it is being used for drugs,... it is only being used by small time dealers not the big ones. those are using USD as it is so much easier.
    to the moon with bitcoin...

  • TippingPoint
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    July 26, 2016, 05:09:56 PM
     #8
    Quote from: pereira4 on July 26, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
    we better be ready by then with a very anonymous and robust Bitcoin (this means small blocks, tor support, confidential transactions, schnorr signatures for default coinjoin

    Yes.
    Watch out for your own ISP.  We need TOR support.

  • MyBitcoinPorn
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    July 26, 2016, 05:14:00 PM
     #9
    It could potentially be used as a way to safely store cash.

    But other than that it makes no sense to use such a heavily watched payment method.

  • AvalonRychmon
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    July 26, 2016, 05:23:35 PM
     #10
    I think this whole statement is to deter people from actively investing into BTC.
    How can you say one currency is bad while not labeling others the same way.
    I mean honestly at some point every currency has been used by a criminal.

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  • SvenBomvolen
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    July 26, 2016, 05:30:47 PM
     #11
       They just say so, I'm not a criminal. And I saw some scam attempts here, but that is not dangerous criminal activity like drug and weapons trafficking. I think bitcoin as currency can make some transactions to go unnoticed, normally that attract people from other side of the law.
       I think its in us will we use something for good or bad purposes, anyone who blame currency for human mistakes is ignorant in my opinion. People should know the difference between good and bad.

  • lexuz
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    July 26, 2016, 05:51:54 PM
     #12
    I do not think so that I know that bitcoin is widely used by the gambling site if you think gambling is a criminal maybe yeah but i dont think that our business along the demand of bitcoin is still there is.

  • ajareselde
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    July 26, 2016, 06:07:54 PM
     #13
    Those kinds of statements are only used as an excuse to seek for higher bad forms of regulations, and to scare people off from investing and spreading the use of bitcoin.
    Any form of money can be used for illicit things, crypto or fiat form, it doesnt make a difference, and just as so, it can be used for legitimate intentions.
    I think the number one reason for such a reaction from them is due to the fact that they cant control bitcoin network in a way they can get funds from bank accounts.

  • madmadmax
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    July 26, 2016, 06:15:59 PM
     #14
    I have once attempted to quantify the criminal market depth of Bitcoin using the largest marketplace at the time as a point of reference, it came down to a zero with a decimal point in comparison to the actual currency favoured by criminals, USD which actually does have a sizeable chunk of black market in it, just the scamming industry is equivalent to the fifth largest country in size of economy, it mostly resides in USD.

    Yes it takes root among rhetorics, yes they have no basis whatsoever for their hypothesis (when have you ever seen one in news? all they do is argue in rhetorics so save us the braincells). First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Declaring Bitcoin the currency of criminals is no more than a petty reason to justify an attack so we're certainly moving in the right direction in that regard.







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  • socks435
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    July 26, 2016, 06:18:09 PM
     #15
    I think bitcoin is not for criminals bitcoin made only to use as money online that we can use it on the internet..
    Bitcoin is very useful because its very fast to transfer your money in far places.
    Decided to end it with zer0 profit.

  • olubams
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    July 26, 2016, 06:25:20 PM
     #16
    Quote from: Kprawn on July 26, 2016, 04:15:01 PM
    Ok, so in every article or podcast or interview... we have to hear that Bitcoin is the preferred tool for criminals. If that was the truth, we should all be filthy rich by now... right? ....The question is, where

    are all this money from money laundering, drugs, prostitution and all the nasty stuff, Bitcoin is being blamed for.... I do not see it, do you? Should we play to our strength then, if Bitcoin is only good for

    criminal purposes? ... I mean to say, if we only attract say 10% of the total amount of money spend on drugs alone, we would most probably be millionaires in a month or two.  Roll Eyes

    " With estimates of $100 billion to $110 billion for heroin, $110 billion to $130 billion for cocaine, $75 billion for cannabis and $60 billion for synthetic drugs, the probable global figure for the total illicit

    drug industry would be approximately $360 billion.     "

    This is a tongue in the cheek poke at all those people, who points fingers at Bitcoin for being the culprit and those who are saying Bitcoin is the primary tool for criminals to do their business online.  Roll Eyes

    Can you smell the bullshit in their statements? The numbers just do not match up, with what they are saying.  Wink

    http://dcebrief.com/digital-currency-for-commerce-or-criminals/
    People and individuals from time immemorial have been entitled to their opinion on what they deem fit or not. From my own point of view I think all these flying here and there is a means to call dog a bad name in other to hang it which boils down to the fact of inability of various governments to control the flow of bitcoin. However, we cant still rule out the possibility of people using this as a means of social vices but still cannot be compared to the use of cash in funding various vices all over the world... my 2 cents...

  • crairezx20
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    July 26, 2016, 06:30:27 PM
     #17
    Quote from: lexuz on July 26, 2016, 05:51:54 PM
    I do not think so that I know that bitcoin is widely used by the gambling site if you think gambling is a criminal maybe yeah but i dont think that our business along the demand of bitcoin is still there is.
    Yeah right there  is no wrong about bitcoin and we can not say that bitcoin is for criminals because almost i know the bitcoin for the first time in faucets .. and yeah bitcoin is well know in gambling casinos online..

  • Junko
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    July 26, 2016, 06:47:52 PM
     #18
    Bitcoin being used by criminals will always be a talking point for those who are anti-bitcoin no matter what. They will always have documented cases and examples where bitcoin was used for criminal activity that they can refer to and use as ammo.

    If we want to un-demonize bitcoin, we have to focus on all the good things about bitcoin and sell that to the mainstream public.

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    July 26, 2016, 06:51:50 PM
     #19
    Quote from: Kprawn on July 26, 2016, 04:15:01 PM
    Ok, so in every article or podcast or interview... we have to hear that Bitcoin is the preferred tool for criminals. If that was the truth, we should all be filthy rich by now... right? ...
    Because it actually is..Just an hour ago I was reading about the ransomware deals,companis have paid $20000+ in bitcoins when their files were encrypted by hackers.If they'd ask money in bank accounts,tracking them would have been way easier.Sad,but true.

    Quote from: Kprawn on July 26, 2016, 04:15:01 PM
    are all this money from money laundering, drugs, prostitution and all the nasty stuff, Bitcoin is being blamed for.... I do not see it, do you? Should we play to our strength then, if Bitcoin is only good for
    criminal purposes? ... I mean to say, if we only attract say 10% of the total amount of money spend on drugs alone, we would most probably be millionaires in a month or two.  Roll Eyes
    That's just negative side effects of bitcoin.Not like before bitcoin it didn't exist.Bitcoin made it a little less suspicious.Don't let the negative news take over control of your brains how evil bitcoin is.Technology is always used for two purposes,viz Greater Good/Destruction.
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  • Slark
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    July 26, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
     #20
    Quote from: TippingPoint on July 26, 2016, 05:09:56 PM
    Quote from: pereira4 on July 26, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
    we better be ready by then with a very anonymous and robust Bitcoin (this means small blocks, tor support, confidential transactions, schnorr signatures for default coinjoin

    Yes.
    Watch out for your own ISP.  We need TOR support.

    And add oil to the fire? We don't need TOR support IMO. TOR is mainly linked to deep web lurkers, drugs, weapons and child pornography traders.
    I know this is mostly misconception too but that is what general public thinks. In democratic society we need to value that.

    And bitcoin haven't been created to be totally anonymous. Satoshi knew that it is not fully anonymous and said that many times.
    We already have some altcoins with  better privacy options if you ware concerned about this aspect - you can always use Monero or something.
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