It's understandable that you're feeling overwhelmed right now.  Use your friends for support and don't stop doing things that might give you some joy - I'm almost certain your mother would not have wanted that for you.

I know. I've been there. Twice. First, my father, then my mother (my mother's loss hurt me the most -- as expected).

You will recover. For sure. This is life. It's supposed to be like this. The other way around (parents losing a child) is the abnormal, truly tragic case -- ask Phil.

Losing a parent is a deeply sad event, but one which should give us strength to continue, and become better, stronger, more successful in life. That's what she would have wanted, and that's what you should give her. I'm not a smoker. Yet, a friend offered me a cigarette the day my father passed away. I said to him, "What for? Will it bring my father back? Hell, no!" Take good care of yourself. Don't slip into bad habits (alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc.) just to kill the pain. Try not to let your emotions overwhelm you. Not easy, I know, but try. Time is the best healer for such wounds.

Stay strong, you will recover. You will live to remember her.

Used to buy ramen,
For 20 cents a sachet.
Lived to tell the tale!

#toughtimesreplyku

Digital currency,
No king, no tax deduction,
Free breathing
----------------------
I look in my wallet,
No money, only QR,
Yet I am rich.

Buddha's death-day -

old hands

clicking rosaries.

How I long to see

among dawn flowers,

the face of God.

Has it returned,

the snow

we viewed together?

- BTCasho

That is a pretty old chart/table - with the newest of the data therein being May 17, 2021


From my perspective, your relatively more bearish proposition is bettable.

1st never is a long time, so if we were to bet, we could put a deadline on it, let's say the end  of 2030 - which would potentially capture the top of this cycle and the top of the next cycle, to the extent that framing these matters in terms of cycles is making any sense.

Sure, you could be correct, yet the reason I consider it bettable is because I am fairly confident to consider that the odds to be less than 50% that you are correct, and you are seeming to put a pretty great assertion on your side (never).. like you should be giving me odds, but that wouldn't be fair for me to take advantage of your likely wrong perspective, like that.  hahahahahahahaha

If you are correct then it seems that some of the underlying presumptions of our tool (I know I created the substantive categories) would be so off in terms of their never, ever, ever happening... .. and with the tool I was attempting to outline actionable presumptions that were in categories that could end up happening. .not that they would happen, but if they did, then any of us, using the tool, could have a plan for dealing with such categories of BTC spot price ranges relative to the 200-WMA.

So yeah the category of actionable ranges are taken from fairly recent historical data with the maximum on the downside being BTC prices up to 35% below the 200-WMA (which was close to happening on November 22, 2022), and on the upside of the BTC spot price getting to 1,400% above the 200-WMA, which happened on December 17, 2017.

Directionally, you have to be correct that the extremes are likely to get taken out, especially some of the outrageousness in the upside, yet I am not sure if we can bank upon the disappearance of overexuberance, even when a variety of tools exist to bet against bitcoin  and even with the rules of large numbers.    

Of course, so far in bitcoin's history the 200-WMA has ONLY gone up, yet that is not guaranteed to continue to take place, so there likely is going to end up being a period of time in which the 200-WMA starts to go down in such a way that it is noticeable over an extended period of time, like maybe a month or 2... Yet, I don't know when that kind of downward trend of the 200-WMA might play out, even though I doubt that such a downward trend would be the death of bitcoin, even though it would represent a fairly lengthy period of BTC price below the 200-WMA... and even BTC spot prices having had spent a decently large amount of time below the 200-WMA between June 2022 and October 2023, the annualize upward movement of the 200-WMA still continued to be greater than 19% during that time. I was watching the daily reports of the 200-WMA at the worst of those late 2022 into early 2022 times, and even on the worst days the 200-WMA still was going up around at least $8 to $9 per day (200-WMA at the time around $24k)... so positive on the daily and positive at least 12% on an annualized basis.. even if we take the very worst days of only going up $8 per day, then $8 X 365 gets us $2,920 annualized, which would be 12.17% if we were to divide that by $24k.  

In some sense, extended downward scenarios for the BTC price relative to the 200-WMA seem more likely and sustainable as compared to extended upside scenarios, such as if we were to try to get to 1,400% again.  Yet even 300% to 400% from today's 200-WMA would merely be prices of $155k to $207k, which surely seem within reach even if yeah the 200-WMA is currently going up right around $40 per day, so it is not like we would shoot up to get within that range in a day or two, it might take a few days or even a few weeks.

The lower number of 300% is surely bettable, yet I also don't see any reason to remove 1,400% from the tool, even though you might want to consider that the tool should be more granular and therefore more realistic in terms of numbers that you believe can get hit, such as less than 300%.. hahahahaha..  There is hardly any interesting action needing to be contemplated based on price if we might be considering ONLY such low levels of exuberance in bitcoin's price future.  Sure the tool can still be helpful in terms of just attempting to figure out ways to value our portfolios and then to potentially draw upon our holdings based on such valuations of our BTC holdings.

Yet, from your seeming perspective of upside scenarios no longer being in the cards, pour one out for bitcoin.


By the way, I get the sense that guys who are overly conservative in their abilities to see bitcoin upside scenarios are likely going to be lured into either not accumulating enough bitcoin (since they take for granted our current prices) and/or selling too many bitcoin too soon, since they perceive the top being in too early. So, yeah, a lot of normies have made such mistakes in bitcoin historically in terms of their failure/refusal to sufficiently/adequately accumulate bitcoin and/or their inclinations to sell way too many bitcoin too soon.

Part of the reason for the tool is to help normies to be able to prepare for upside scenarios that may or may not happen so that they are perhaps more able to regulate their own level of selling bitcoin, to the extent that they are more inclined to sell rather than to hold  I sometimes hear or read from other bitcoiners who seem to be way smarter than me, and they are claiming to be bitcoin maxis, yet at the same time, they are trading the fuck out of their bitcoin, and surely I have difficulties understanding how they ever get ahead in their ongoing deploying of those kinds of systems, and it seems that an overwhelming majority of them would have had been way better off to have had been emphasizing on accumulating and holding rather than fucking around with trading... especially if we might look at their performance over a couple of cycles or longer.

I think that we are going to continue to have similar patterns into the future where guys are trying to trade bitcoin, selling too much bitcoin too soon and also failing/refusing to accumulate bitcoin when they should be.  

At the same time, it is my perspective that if guys get to an place of overaccumulation, then they have options and they can establish a perpetual budget, and even work within such budget to either continue to build or just to live off of the budget it they do not necessarily need to work off the budget.   I suppose that my presumption of a perpetual budget does have some built in assumptions about the 200-WMA continuing to go up at at least the rate of withdrawal (slightly greater in order to be perpetual and also at least enough to give reasonable cost of living increases each year, for example 7%.. yet each of us is still responsible for figuring out the extent to which we have reached over accumulation status and are able to withdraw at a sustainable rate and if the BTC price 200WMA is not going up enough in order to sustain our withdrawal rate then we either have to lower our withdrawal rate or figure out ways to build up our bitcoin stash size in order to get it at a sustainable level within our intended budget..

Yes, of course,

The father is the silent shadow of the family. He gets tired, breaks down, yet he always stands strong in front of the family.
Where a mother's love is a symbol of tenderness, a father's love is a wall of security.
He may say little, but in his every hardworking breath, the future of the child is hidden.
In the eyes of the child, the father is the first superhero—the one who does not wear a cape, but becomes great only through hard work and responsibility.
One day I realized—the shoulder on which we sat and saw the world was the strongest foundation.

"Mother brings us into the world, and father teaches us the struggle to survive in that world"

Even though what you are saying sounds like it could be correct, yet there seems to be some kind of an error of reductionist thinking in there..

Like y has to follow x because in all of the earlier examples y has always followed x... and also I am not really a great fan of trying to lock king daddy within calendar year specifics, even though I understand you are just attempting to give some orientation and timeline framework.

Your point about down before up seems valid.. that we are currently in a down that does not seem to be enough to cause us to worry that we have been taken out of our ongoing up.. that part seems sufficiently reasonable...   

In other words, our correction down to $108,717 (so far) has ONLY been about a 12.7% from the $124,517 top from a mere 13 days ago.. which likely should mean that there is no need to worry yet since there has been ongoing demand on the cornz and no bottoms are really falling out.. so the UP had not had enough time (or even distance) to play itself out. 

Are the supposed sales from OGs really able to supply so many of the new entrants?  I have my ongoing doubts about there being enough coins to supply so many of the ongoing new entrants. .. at the same time, I see no reason why even a retest of $100k or even sub $100k could end up being part of what we wished would not happen, but ends up happening... that's ONLY a 20% correction.. and of course, I would be buying all the way down, even though I prefer such a test to not happen.


Yep.  I have frequently considered selling BTC with intentions of buying back cheaper to be problematic ways of thinking about BTC, even though it does sometimes end up working out for guys.


That seems to be a kind of never ending phase that happens more frequently during BTC price corrections, and sometimes can be annoying and difficult to shake such folks because corrections can sometimes take a bit of time to play out, and even when we get back into recovery, the no coiners are still failing to buy.. 

The low coiners, on the other hand, might also be trying to figure out when they might buy and they might start to buy some BTC on recovery, even though they likely are holding back and waiting for more dip.. and perhaps thinking about buying and selling at the same time, which ongoingly keeps them as a low coiner.. a person who could have had way more coin if he had not been fucking around with trying to over think and over strategize the matter. 

We likely have a quite a few low coiners in this forum and in this thread who are ongoingly fighting with their low coiner status and wanting to have their cake and eat it too.. which I consider it to be problematic to sell any bitcoin with expectations of buying back cheaper and I also consider it problematic to not be either ongoingly buying BTC or at least ongoingly buying BTC on dips if you already know that you don't have enough coins..


Case in point. 

Selling is not how a guy accumulates more bitcoin, especially if such guy is: 1) a no coiner, 2) a low coiner and/or 3) a person who knows he does not have enough or more than enough coins. 

I also am not so crazy about guys who had actually reached overaccumulation status to sell BTC with expectations to buy back cheaper, yet if they are at overaccumulation status then by definition they have enough coins (or more than enough) to sell some of their coins without falling out of overaccumulation status. .but they still have to figure out how much coins they can sell without causing themselves to get knocked out of overaccumulation status...frequently not an easy assessment for gamblers to identify without their greed inadvertently getting in the way.

I am not proclaiming greed to be a bad thing.  We are all likely motivated by some level of greed (self-interestedness, doing things in our own interest), yet we still likely have to ongoingly take active efforts to try to think more long term which may well help us in order to keep our greed somewhat harnessed.

Stake pays in USDC. I wasn’t thrilled when they made the change, but it’s allowed me to explore other blockchains to see what they have to offer. For example, I have a wBTC/SPYx liquidity pool that pays me in Bitcoin and S&P500 shares. I think that’s pretty cool. I would never let it replace my Bitcoin, but it is a rolling snowball that I’m thankful for and wouldn’t have touched if it wasn’t for my campaign switching from BTC to USDC.