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Topic: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN. (Read 6515 times)

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 27, 2017, 10:48:18 PM

#61

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 27, 2017, 10:43:06 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 27, 2017, 09:22:25 PM

Need to make blockchain split just before Difficulty adjusts, then (after 15 days) generate 1 block.

How many blocks during those 15 days?

If blockchain splits then there will be less hash power.

If there is less hash power, then blocks will be slower.

If blocks are slower, then it takes more than 15 days for difficulty adjustment.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
split will happen 99.99% , people want trustable software and miners want money and will do it.

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 27, 2017, 11:33:38 PM

#62

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 27, 2017, 09:22:25 PM

then (after 15 days) generate 1 block.

Maybe more than 15 days.

Maybe 28 days. Maybe more than 56 days.

btccashacc

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 27, 2017, 11:47:32 PM

#63

Quote from: Sithara007 on July 25, 2017, 02:25:02 AM

Quote from: tauceramica on July 24, 2017, 09:35:46 PM

3-4 months ago, poloniex had explained that they were ready for hard fork and they will also issue the splitted bitcoin one. But this time, they're very silent and we don't know what will happen to our bitcoins.

Check this:

https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

I think that Poloniex has gone back on its word. This is what they are saying now:

Quote

Even if two viable blockchains emerge, we may or may not support both and will make such a decision only after we are satisfied that we can safely support either blockchain in an enterprise environment.

Bittrex also has just announced their statement regarding the hard fork.

Quote

If you have a Bitcoin (BTC) balance on Bittrex 24 during the BCC UAHF time on August 1st, 5:20am (12:20pm UTC), you will be credited the equivalent amount of Bitcoin Cash (BCC) on a 1:1 basis. i.e. 1 BTC on Bittrex held during the on-exchange snapshot will get you 1 BCC.

Here's the link : https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000808991

I personally control my private key, i have some on poloniex and bittrex but only small amount, it's not big deal if something bad happens with my coin.

Kwelstr

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I've got amazing powers of observation

Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 11:10:08 AM

#64

I have created a poll to see how the community views the fork and the future of bitcoin. Please answer the poll so we can have a statistically significant number of responses.

https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/2048167.0;all

I am trying to be fair on that poll and included as many answers as I could think of. I will keep the poll open until a couple of hours before the Aug 1st fork. Let's see if the wisdom of the forum is indicative of how it will turn out.

Thank you for participating.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BitCore has a free airdrop every Monday. Get your free BTX!

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 12:40:06 PM

#65

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 27, 2017, 11:33:38 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 27, 2017, 09:22:25 PM

then (after 15 days) generate 1 block.

Maybe more than 15 days.

Maybe 28 days. Maybe more than 56 days.

optimal is 15*3 = 45 days, for 4x difficulty fall (maximum posible for 1 period).

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 12:49:34 PM

#66

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 12:40:06 PM

- snip -
optimal is 15*3 = 45 days, for 4x difficulty fall (maximum posible for 1 period).

Check the math in case I'm wrong, but I think 45 days is only 3.2x difficulty fall.

If you want 4x difficulty fall, I think you need 14*4 = 56 days.

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 02:01:42 PM

#67

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 12:49:34 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 12:40:06 PM

- snip -
optimal is 15*3 = 45 days, for 4x difficulty fall (maximum posible for 1 period).

Check the math in case I'm wrong, but I think 45 days is only 3.2x difficulty fall.

If you want 4x difficulty fall, I think you need 14*4 = 56 days.

D1=blocks/days
D2=blocks/(days+days*3)
D2=D1/4

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 03:29:47 PM

#68

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 02:01:42 PM

D1=blocks/days
D2=blocks/(days+days*3)
D2=D1/4

Maximum possible is handled here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/pow.cpp#L58

Code:

if (nActualTimespan > params.nPowTargetTimespan*4)
nActualTimespan = params.nPowTargetTimespan*4;

Since target timesapan is 14 days, if actual timespan is greater than:
14 days * 4 = 56 days

Then actual timespan is adjusted and set equal to
14 days * 4 = 56 days

Difficulty retarget is then calculated here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/pow.cpp#L65

Code:

bnNew.SetCompact(pindexLast->nBits);
bnNew *= nActualTimespan;
bnNew= params.nPowTargetTimespan;

So...

Start with existing difficulty X

Code:

Multiply by actual timespan (maximum 56 days)

Code:

56 * X = 56X

divide by target timespan (14 days)

Code:

56X 14 = 4X

result is 4X difficulty fall at 56 or more days.

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 03:59:38 PM

#69

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 03:29:47 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 02:01:42 PM

D1=blocks/days
D2=blocks/(days+days*3)
D2=D1/4

result is 4X difficulty fall at 56 or more days.

56 days from 1st block of period.
and 14*3 days from last block of period to new

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM

#70

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 03:59:38 PM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 03:29:47 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 02:01:42 PM

D1=blocks/days
D2=blocks/(days+days*3)
D2=D1/4

result is 4X difficulty fall at 56 or more days.

56 days from 1st block of period.
and 14*3 days from last block of period to new

Period = 2016 blocks.

If it is 56 days from first block of period to new period, then period is 56 days.

14 * 3 = 42 days

56 day period - 42 days after last block = 14 days to last block.

So, full period of 2016 blocks in 14 days?

If there is 42 days from last block to difficulty retarget, what happens during those 42 days? No blocks? Why no blocks? How will you stop miners from creating blocks? Why will you stop miners from creating blocks?

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 04:25:15 PM

#71

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM

Do read 1st post

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 04:34:14 PM

#72

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 04:25:15 PM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM

Do read 1st post

Read first post.

It does not answer the questions.

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 04:41:16 PM

#73

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 04:34:14 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 04:25:15 PM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM

Do read 1st post

Read first post.

It does not answer the questions.

Quote

AS SOON AS THE SEGWIT IS ACTIVATED, I WILL MAKE A HARD FORK, AS IT IS SAID HERE:
https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/2018878
AFTER THIS BITCOIN CORE CLIENTS EARLIER VERSION 0.14.1 WILL START REJECTING NEW BLOCKS.

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 04:45:06 PM

#74

Quote

0.14.1 will not not reject segwit blocks.

If 0.14.1 does reject segwit blocks, then some miners can create 0.14.1 blocks, so blocks will still happen and difficulty will adjust after 2016 blocks.

If miners do not create 0.14.1 blocks, then difficulty will be VERY high, and it will take a VERY long time (many months? many years?) for you to create a 0.14.1 block.

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 05:31:56 PM

#75

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 04:45:06 PM

Quote

will reject segwit blocks.

Quote

Soft fork impossible:

Quote

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on July 17, 2017, 06:57:44 PM

Quote from: xbiv2 on July 17, 2017, 06:43:36 PM

In block N have segwit transaction from A->B .
In block N+1 have normal transaction from B->C .
Block N+1 rejected by BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) because B have zero balance.

Wouldn't that then make SegWit a hard fork if clients do not accept it? Are you referring to miners or regular wallet users in this example?

Just send RAW not segwit transaction in block N+1 from B->C.
New segwit software (of miners) will accept it, BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) will reject.
It can do anyone who own BTC to pay transactions fee.

DannyHamilton

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 06:59:09 PM

#76

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 05:31:56 PM

will reject segwit blocks.

Quote

Soft fork impossible:

Quote

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on July 17, 2017, 06:57:44 PM

Quote from: xbiv2 on July 17, 2017, 06:43:36 PM

In block N have segwit transaction from A->B .
In block N+1 have normal transaction from B->C .
Block N+1 rejected by BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) because B have zero balance.

Wouldn't that then make SegWit a hard fork if clients do not accept it? Are you referring to miners or regular wallet users in this example?

Not true.

xbiv2 is wrong. He does not understand how bitcoin works and he does not understand how segwit works.

If block N has segwit transaction from A->B, and there are no non-segwit unspent transaction outputs to B, then it will be impossible to create "normal" transaction from B->C. Transaction MUST satisfy segwit script requirements to spend segwit output.

If block N+1 has valid transaction for segwit, then it will ALSO be valid for 0.14.1

Even if I am wrong, non-segwit miners can create 0.14.1 blocks, so "CLIENTS EARLIER VERSION 0.14.1 WILL NOT START REJECTING NEW BLOCKS"

If I'm wrong about 0.14.1 accepting segwit blocks (I'm not), and if there are no non-segwit miners creating 0.14.1 blocks, then difficulty will be VERY high, and it will take a VERY long time (many months? many years?) for you to create a 0.14.1 block.

JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 10:57:23 PM

#77

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 28, 2017, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 28, 2017, 05:31:56 PM

will reject segwit blocks.

Quote

Soft fork impossible:

Quote

Quote from: Mad7Scientist on July 17, 2017, 06:57:44 PM

Quote from: xbiv2 on July 17, 2017, 06:43:36 PM

In block N have segwit transaction from A->B .
In block N+1 have normal transaction from B->C .
Block N+1 rejected by BITCOIN of 2014 (CLASSIC) because B have zero balance.

Wouldn't that then make SegWit a hard fork if clients do not accept it? Are you referring to miners or regular wallet users in this example?

Even if I am wrong, non-segwit miners can create 0.14.1 blocks, so "CLIENTS EARLIER VERSION 0.14.1 WILL NOT START REJECTING NEW BLOCKS"

xbiv2 is right.
About difficulty you must read this tread, all not so bad like you imagine.

ayeshajum07

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 28, 2017, 11:43:58 PM

#78

Quote from: DannyHamilton on July 27, 2017, 09:09:57 PM

Quote from: JNiks_ZLisa on July 26, 2017, 03:38:52 PM

- snip -
Need to generate 1 block at the and of 15 days period and it will cause 4x difficulty drop.
- snip -

Not true.

Difficulty adjusts after 2016 blocks. NOT after 15 days.

If blocks happen at near NORMAL speed (average 1 block every nearly 10 minutes) then difficulty adjusts after approximately 14 days:
2016 blocks * 10 minutes = 20160 minutes = 336 hours = 14 days

If there is not enough hash power and therefore blocks take longer, then difficulty takes longer to adjust.

2016 blocks * average 40 minutes per block = 80640 minutes = 1344 hours = 56 days until difficulty adjusts 4X

See code here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/pow.cpp#L19

Specifies params.DifficultyAdjustmentInterval:

Code:

// Only change once per difficulty adjustment interval
if ((pindexLast->nHeight+1) % params.DifficultyAdjustmentInterval() != 0)
{
...

params.DifficultyAdjustmentInterval calculated here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/consensus/params.h#L63

Code:

int64_t DifficultyAdjustmentInterval() const { return nPowTargetTimespan nPowTargetSpacing; }

nPowTargetTimespan is set here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/chainparams.cpp#L79

Code:

consensus.nPowTargetTimespan = 14 * 24 * 60 * 60;

Note: 14*24*60*60 = 1209600

nPowTargetSpacing is set here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1b046603b30ebfab6199a2f92015d507b248b590/src/chainparams.cpp#L80

Code:

consensus.nPowTargetSpacing = 10 * 60;

Note: 10 * 60 = 600

So, DifficultyAdjustmentInterval = 1209600 600 = 2016

So, adjustment happens when:
(pindexLast->nHeight+1) === 2016

In other words...

Only once every 2016 blocks.

What I could say on this overwhelmingly mathematical information that bursts into my small head. This are really amazing.

I am just the other guy who gladly receiving great information.

As understanding on the suggestion above. I have to pull out my bitcoin from online and put it to my desktop wallet. To make it safe.

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JNiks_ZLisa (OP)

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 29, 2017, 06:34:36 PM

#79

Quote from: ayeshajum07 on July 28, 2017, 11:43:58 PM

Keep it till all forks will done. Then sell separately.

Nougat

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Re: HERE IS HOW THE FORK WILL HAPPEN.

July 29, 2017, 07:17:44 PM

#80

Since Bitcoin Cash is a large block hard fork, does this mean that Bitcoin Classic (current protocol with no changes as discussed in this thread) will be a third chain actively supported on August 1?

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