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    Author Topic: Mt.Gox and void trades: Force Majeure  (Read 20724 times)

    • niemivh
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    June 22, 2011, 04:23:35 AM
     #101
    Quote from: MagicalTux on June 21, 2011, 09:45:26 AM
    Quote from: Bit_Happy on June 21, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
    Sorry to be a bit off topic, these questions are vital to many people, so please answer:

    1) The moment we pass the new verification stage, are we allowed to look at our account, or are there more delays at that stage?
    2) Is MtGox still solvent? and/or Have they claimed to have enough funds?
    3) Are there any verifiable sources about their (rumored) possible legal troubles in Japan?

    1) Passing the verification may take some time if there is a lot of users. We'll try to make it as fast as possible.
    2) No funds were stolen
    3) Legal troubles?
    I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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  • niemivh
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    June 22, 2011, 04:25:32 AM
     #102
    Quote from: hamdi on June 21, 2011, 09:52:28 AM
    1000 btc i had but i really doubt mtgox will come back
    i also dont care cause im a USD-millionaire already so BTC is just a playground for me... all the gains i get from playing the market i put into charities.

    You want to make someone's life wonderful?

    Donate to my link, I'll quit my job and write my book, make my documentary, and record my album.

    It'll be worth it!!!!!!
    I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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  • elggawf
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    June 22, 2011, 04:53:08 AM
     #103
    Quote from: unk on June 22, 2011, 04:20:43 AM
    i know nothing about tradehill, but as a technical claim about https, this is entirely incorrect. the ssl certificates used by https authenticate a domain name; they are entirely independent of network-layer addresses.

    SSL negotiation takes place before the Host: header is sent - so name-based virtual hosting doesn't work over HTTPS. Therefore with the exception of multi-domain or wildcard certificates, you're pretty much limited to one "site" per IP, unless you change the port.

    If you're saying it's possible to do name-based virtualhosting (and by extension, shared hosting) over HTTPS on a single IP, please share the details of it.
    ^_^

  • unk
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    June 22, 2011, 05:04:05 AM
     #104
    Quote from: elggawf on June 22, 2011, 04:53:08 AM
    SSL negotiation takes place before the Host: header is sent - so name-based virtual hosting doesn't work over HTTPS. Therefore with the exception of multi-domain or wildcard certificates, you're pretty much limited to one "site" per IP, unless you change the port.

    If you're saying it's possible to do name-based virtualhosting (and by extension, shared hosting) over HTTPS on a single IP, please share the details of it.

    my apologies. i'm tremendously out of practice. this is what going to six hours of meetings a day does to a former programmer. :)

    what confused me is that you can, of course, simply distinguish on port, so the claim that the ip address (rather than the connection) needed to be unique is what raised a red flag to me. but of course, this isn't relevant to the point you were making; that tradehill uses port 443 is useful evidence of the kind you were suggesting that it's operating on its own network address.

  • shamen
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    June 22, 2011, 11:39:00 AM
     #105
    MtGox made the BBC news

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13857192

  • elements
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    June 23, 2011, 06:07:17 AM
     #106
    Quote from: shamen on June 22, 2011, 11:39:00 AM
    MtGox made the BBC news

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13857192

    At least I'm famous now Wink
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  • Webengers
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    June 23, 2011, 06:11:58 AM
     #107
    Quote from: elements on June 23, 2011, 06:07:17 AM
    Quote from: shamen on June 22, 2011, 11:39:00 AM
    MtGox made the BBC news

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13857192

    At least I'm famous now Wink

    You: Parlay it into more money to invest in bitcoin through media appearances. Shut everyone out and demand cash for an interview.

  • elements
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    June 23, 2011, 06:21:40 AM
     #108
    C'mon man, they just quoted me from the status.mtgox forum.
    »A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof was to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.« - Douglas Adams
    Use the trusted German Bitcoin exchange: https://www.bitcoin.de/de/r/5wcwts
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  • jondecker76
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    June 23, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
     #109
    Why is it that Mt. Gox keeps claiming that no BTC were stolen?Huh??
    I had 20.19 BTC stolen 2 days before the news of the database leak became public.  I reported it to Mt Gox before the news became public and I have the automated email they sent back as proof.  I have not heard a peep out of them about it.
    I have seen many other similar stories, where people got their BTC and/or money stolen out of their accounts as well during this same time frame. Mt. Gox's claim is that people that had money stolen had matching login information, so it couldn't have been hacked so they are not responsible.  I'm 100% positive that my BTC were stolen because my password was cracked from the leaked database.  Mt. Gox should be liable for this, and I believe I should be reimbursed.
    I've posted to every single thread I've seen regarding Mt. Gox and stolen money, but they have yet to reply even once.

    I for one will jump on any class action suit I can find.
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  • Remotay
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    June 23, 2011, 10:07:38 AM
     #110
    To the people threatening to sue MtGox - you guys need to get your head's examined. Any of you remember the May Flash Crash? It happened on the ACTUAL stock market - the one where the big boys play. Proctor & Gamble was trading at $0.01. Guess what happened? The trades were reversed - AND this happened without ANYONE getting "hacked".

    Stop feeling so entitled - when Mtgox re-opens you'll have your bitcoins USD back in your account. Also stop complaining about security - 90% of the people here complaining about the lack of security on the site know ZERO about the issue at hand. It's not like MtGox kept all the passwords in a txt file somewhere on his server - He made a legitimate attempt to keep them secure.

  • The_Duke
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    June 23, 2011, 11:37:13 AM
     #111
    Quote from: Remotay on June 23, 2011, 10:07:38 AM
    To the people threatening to sue MtGox - you guys need to get your head's examined. Any of you remember the May Flash Crash? It happened on the ACTUAL stock market - the one where the big boys play. Proctor & Gamble was trading at $0.01. Guess what happened? The trades were reversed - AND this happened without ANYONE getting "hacked".

    Stop feeling so entitled - when Mtgox re-opens you'll have your bitcoins USD back in your account. Also stop complaining about security - 90% of the people here complaining about the lack of security on the site know ZERO about the issue at hand. It's not like MtGox kept all the passwords in a txt file somewhere on his server - He made a legitimate attempt to keep them secure.

    And there's your difference. If the sstock exchange had freely given an auditor information he shouldn't have had, which resulted in the flash crash you can bet your ass someone would have been sued.
    NOT a member of the so called ''Bitcoin Foundation''. Choose Independence!

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  • Remotay
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    June 23, 2011, 08:52:54 PM
     #112
    Are you kidding? WAY more people have access to the Nasdaq trading computers (Nasdaq employees) than people who have back end access (legitimately) to MtGox servers, so I have no idea what you're complaining about.

  • Epinnoia
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    June 23, 2011, 11:29:42 PM
     #113
    Quote from: hamdi on June 21, 2011, 09:52:28 AM
    1000 btc i had but i really doubt mtgox will come back
    i also dont care cause im a USD-millionaire already so BTC is just a playground for me... all the gains i get from playing the market i put into charities.

    Nice...
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  • onesalt
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    June 23, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
     #114
    Force Majeure clauses literally translate as an act of god. ie, an event it is impossible to ever fully prepare for or deal with effectively. An example of this would be an earthquake, which no matter how strongly built or how earthquakeproofed a building, worksite or suchlike it is it will have huge ramifications that will effectively cancel a contract. Same with tornados, volcanic activity or tidal waves, etc.

    Force Majeure does not Cover gross incompetence such as failing to correctly store data or information. The only time you could reasonably claim force majeure with respect to website operations would be if the server farm caught fire or there was a power failure for an extended period of time.

  • bitcoinminer
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    June 24, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
     #115
    Quote from: onesalt on June 23, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
    Force Majeure does not Cover gross incompetence such as failing to correctly store data or information. The only time you could reasonably claim force majeure with respect to website operations would be if the server farm caught fire or there was a power failure for an extended period of time.

    Not true... you could reasonably claim force majeure if you had schizophrenia, or extreme mental retardation.
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  • unk
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    June 26, 2011, 02:10:15 AM
     #116
    Quote from: bitcoinminer on June 24, 2011, 02:51:05 AM
    Quote from: onesalt on June 23, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
    Force Majeure does not Cover gross incompetence such as failing to correctly store data or information. The only time you could reasonably claim force majeure with respect to website operations would be if the server farm caught fire or there was a power failure for an extended period of time.

    Not true... you could reasonably claim force majeure if you had schizophrenia, or extreme mental retardation.

    no you couldn't; that would void the contract ab initio.

    if you were struck later with a sudden epilepsy that prevented you from performing an obligation, that could count as force majeure.

  • beeph
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    June 26, 2011, 02:40:14 AM
    Last edit: June 26, 2011, 02:56:32 AM by beeph
     #117
    lol, in this country.. america.. one can sue anyone for any reason at any time.. u just need to convince a judge or jury (wonder how popular the frenchman will be to a US jury)

    Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.

    So if you really lost money with them i'd find the US entity they transact with and just call a lawyer up in their state and ask for a free consultation.
    If you are smart you dont even need a lawyer really you can just do it all yourself and start filing subpoenas with the county clerk for 25$.  It's up to their lawyer to contest your subpoena.

    Get a court date set, and subpoena everything you can.

    Oh and by the way, I'm sure there were plenty of lawsuits about the flash crash in may.. yer a deluded if u dont think that.

    The above is NOT legal advice, consult your own lawyer to see how you should proceed with your individual situation.

    http://www.vanosteen.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm   - they wont 2 mil+ on it
    http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/22/news/companies/mcdonalds/ - lawsuit blaming mcdonalds for 'making them fat' haha they lost that one

    god bless america

  • oneforall
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    June 26, 2011, 02:57:51 AM
     #118
    Quote from: beeph on June 26, 2011, 02:40:14 AM
    lol, in this country.. america.. one can sue anyone for any reason at any time.. u just need to convince a judge or jury
    Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.

    So if you really lost money with them i'd find the US entity they transact with and just call a lawyer up in their state and ask for a free consultation.
    If you are smart you dont even need a lawyer really you can just do it all yourself and start filing subpoenas with the county clerk for 25$.  It's up to their lawyer to contest your subpoena.

    Get a court date set, and subpoena everything you can.

    Oh and by the way, I'm sure there were plenty of lawsuits about the flash crash in may.. yer a deluded if u dont think that.


    RING RING

    -Acme law office, how may i direct you call?

    +I need to talk to a lawyer, immediately!

    -Please hold.

    *pause*

    -Hello, how can i help you?

    +hello, mr. lawyer man, i gave my internet points(which me and my friends sure do like a whole bunch) to somebody on the internet in a different country that i don't know and he held on to them for 5 days and then gave them back to me, so now I want to sue him. I'm really really smart, so i know i have a case, but i need somebody who knows about all that fancy law stuff to help me out, how about you do this for free and i'll pay you when we win?

    *pause*

    +hello? mr. lawyer? mr. lawyer, did you hang up on me?!?! I'm suing you!!




    If bitcoin was more popular, maybe we'd see this skit on SNL  Cheesy

  • beeph
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    June 26, 2011, 03:00:16 AM
     #119
    Quote from: oneforall on June 26, 2011, 02:57:51 AM
    Quote from: beeph on June 26, 2011, 02:40:14 AM
    lol, in this country.. america.. one can sue anyone for any reason at any time.. u just need to convince a judge or jury
    Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.

    So if you really lost money with them i'd find the US entity they transact with and just call a lawyer up in their state and ask for a free consultation.
    If you are smart you dont even need a lawyer really you can just do it all yourself and start filing subpoenas with the county clerk for 25$.  It's up to their lawyer to contest your subpoena.

    Get a court date set, and subpoena everything you can.

    Oh and by the way, I'm sure there were plenty of lawsuits about the flash crash in may.. yer a deluded if u dont think that.


    RING RING

    -Acme law office, how may i direct you call?

    +I need to talk to a lawyer, immediately!

    -Please hold.

    *pause*

    -Hello, how can i help you?

    +hello, mr. lawyer man, i gave my internet points(which me and my friends sure do like a whole bunch) to somebody on the internet in a different country that i don't know and he held on to them for 5 days and then gave them back to me, so now I want to sue him. I'm really really smart, so i know i have a case, but i need somebody who knows about all that fancy law stuff to help me out, how about you do this for free and i'll pay you when we win?

    *pause*

    +hello? mr. lawyer? mr. lawyer, did you hang up on me?!?! I'm suing you!!




    If bitcoin was more popular, maybe we'd see this skit on SNL  Cheesy


    I bet you I can sue these guys.. wanna bet?  I will post the details on here step by step instructions and get a case number for you - we can use that arbitration service to settle the wager lol, anyone know the name of the LLC/state it operated in that handled their US payments?  I'll get on the horn first thing monday.. I got provable damages in US dollars over small claims amounts too

  • oneforall
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    June 26, 2011, 03:06:55 AM
     #120
    Quote from: beeph on June 26, 2011, 03:00:16 AM
    Quote from: oneforall on June 26, 2011, 02:57:51 AM
    Quote from: beeph on June 26, 2011, 02:40:14 AM
    lol, in this country.. america.. one can sue anyone for any reason at any time.. u just need to convince a judge or jury
    Someone once sued mcdonalds for their coffee being too hot.. lot of bored, out of work, lawyers in the US.

    So if you really lost money with them i'd find the US entity they transact with and just call a lawyer up in their state and ask for a free consultation.
    If you are smart you dont even need a lawyer really you can just do it all yourself and start filing subpoenas with the county clerk for 25$.  It's up to their lawyer to contest your subpoena.

    Get a court date set, and subpoena everything you can.

    Oh and by the way, I'm sure there were plenty of lawsuits about the flash crash in may.. yer a deluded if u dont think that.


    RING RING

    -Acme law office, how may i direct you call?

    +I need to talk to a lawyer, immediately!

    -Please hold.

    *pause*

    -Hello, how can i help you?

    +hello, mr. lawyer man, i gave my internet points(which me and my friends sure do like a whole bunch) to somebody on the internet in a different country that i don't know and he held on to them for 5 days and then gave them back to me, so now I want to sue him. I'm really really smart, so i know i have a case, but i need somebody who knows about all that fancy law stuff to help me out, how about you do this for free and i'll pay you when we win?

    *pause*

    +hello? mr. lawyer? mr. lawyer, did you hang up on me?!?! I'm suing you!!




    If bitcoin was more popular, maybe we'd see this skit on SNL  Cheesy


    I bet you I can sue these guys.. wanna bet?


    I bet you can sue them. I bet you can't win. I bet suing them is like making a bet considering if you lose the lawsuit you lose money and if you win the lawsuit you win money. There's your bet for you.

    One more bet - I bet to win you would need lots of luck, since you don't have lots of logic.
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