^^ this
Fiaz posted this on 19th March:

"...but the fact we were the first to start means we can guarantee shipping in July"

When pressed about this guaranteed July delivery, he quickly posted this retraction on the 21st March:

"Ah, a poor choice of words on my part. We are on schedule and very much expect to ship in July as has been the plan for a while now but of course there are never guarantees, my apologies."

Pretty much everything that Alpha has written in their updates or posted, is speculation. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed. Their terms and conditions absolve them from all liability if things go wrong.

I posted early in this thread that Alpha could string this out for 5 months, then force mass cancellations by sowing the seeds of FUD and walk away with all the deposit money according to their T&Cs. This is happening now. Whether by ineptitude or design,  Alpha's flimsy update, no prototype, the lack of payment processor and the constant refusal to answer fundamental questions is causing more and more people to ask for refunds, only to be told they will receive a fraction of what they paid or nothing at all.

They are rigidly enforcing the letter of their T&Cs but failing to honour the promises they have made on the forums. Most notably this:

"Additionally we have decided to be as ethical as possible regarding pre-orders and as such we only took 30% deposit. Once we have conducted the majority of our development and have a working ASIC prototype to demonstrate only then will we ask for the remaining 70%. Ensuring only when we have proven our hash rates and customers are fully satisfied with what we have achieved and the product we will be sending will they have to pay in full. We see this as a customer focused approach as opposed to taking the full amount months before completing development when it isn't really necessary."

Moral of the story. Take what they post with a grain of salt. Their T&Cs are the only thing they feel accountable to and they stacked in their favour.

Correct.  This is quoted straight from their TOS:

"We shall not be liable to you for any loss of profit or for indirect or consequential loss suffered by you whether as a result of any breach of these terms by us or as a result of our negligence...",

and there are a few similar lines in there. 

Now I don't know how it is in the UK but in the US no matter what you put in a contract, you are still liable for outright fraud, and it wouldn't surprise me if the UK is the same (I think generally UK has better consumer protection laws than US).  But on the other hand, looking at how they are skirting the law with the refunds, one can assume they would do the same thing here, and that it would take lawsuits to actually enforce. 

My personal guess is, they will refuse refunds to everyone, and if they get sued and eventually have to give back some of the money they consider that an acceptable loss, as it won't be all of it (many people won't press the issue) and even if they do have to give back, they got interest free loans to build their cloud mining operation. 

This too is the part that had me stumped.  I think I'm going to try giving their offices a call again in the next day or two and see if I can get something other than an answering machine.

So in a nutshell, what i can gather is the company is saying in not so many words that they need you guys to pay up so they can finnish building the miners..

So to me that says if you don't pay up then be prepared to get miners really late and or not at all; losing your deposit. I would just pay up or get out either way its you that is delaying either thing happening here and not AT.

No. What we are saying is that they have posted conflicting statements regarding this. But in their last update they stated  they have enough money to finish production.

"We will be producing as many units as ordered without waiting for card customers to pay thus if you have not yet paid your order will still be manufactured regardless"

If we are to take them at their word, there is no reason for you to pay now. It makes more sense to wait until they have a working test unit, which should be in a couple of weeks if they are on schedule. You can then pay the balance by CC if you still wish to proceed, without taking unnecessary risks.

I got a reply form consumer advice and heres the response I got about distance selling regulations.

"We understand from your email that you have cancelled an order and the trader has only partially refunded you.



I would first like to clarify that the role of the Citizen Advice consumer service is to provide consumers in the UK with a telephone and online service offering information and advice on consumer issues.  We work in partnership with Local Authority Trading Standards Services.

 

Your rights and obligations:

 

Under the law of the United Kingdom, any terms and conditions provided by the trader are separate to your rights under the Distance Selling Regulations. However, they are legally binding for both parties. If they offer you certain rights then you can request that the trader honours these rights otherwise you will hold them in breach of contract. On this basis you can request that they either honour the agreement otherwise you will pursue them for a reasonable level of compensation.

 

Any supporting evidence you have to show that the trader has breached the contract is going to be useful and you should present this to the trader when making your complaint.

 

I will now explain your rights in relation to the Distance Selling Regulations. Please note that these regulations have since been replaced, but will still apply to your contract. Prior to 13/06/2014 when you enter into a contract with a trader by means of a distance communication (telephone, internet, mail order etc.) you will have cancellation rights under the Distance Selling Regulations. Please note that the following types of transactions are not covered by these regulations meaning that you cannot cancel once you have placed your order.

 

•Items liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;

•CDs, DVDs or software that has had the plastic seal or cover removed;

•Items that are ordered to meet a customer’s specification, such as a made to measure item of clothing;

•Financial transactions (these are covered by the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations);

•Auctions, including TV auctions and on-line auctions;

•Business to business transactions;

•Items sold from a private individual not acting in the capacity of a business

•Purchases that have resulted from face to face contact.

•for the supply of newspapers, periodicals or magazines

•Items sold from a private individual not acting in the capacity of a business plus, contracts for the provision of accommodation, transport, catering or leisure services, where the supplier undertakes, when the contract is concluded, to provide these services on a specific date or within a specific period.

 

When this period ends depends on when the trader provides written information (in print or by email) confirming details of the order and your cancellation rights -

 

• If the trader sends the written information before they send the goods or enclosed with the goods – the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the goods are received;

 

• If the trader sends the written information after the goods but within 3 months - the cancellation period ends 7 working days from the day after the written information is received;

 

• If the trader sends the written information over 3 months after the goods, or not at all – the cancellation period ends 3 months and 7 working days from the day after the goods are received.

 

If you cancel you may ask for a full refund including any delivery charges. The trader must provide this refund within 30 days.

 

If applicable, the trader may ask you to return the goods and/ or pay the return costs but can only do so if it was made clear in the written information.  If the written information does not specify that you are responsible for returning the goods, you may expect the trader to collect the goods; if it does not specify you are responsible for the cost of return then the trader must bear this cost.  Until the goods are returned to (or collected by) the trader, you have a ‘duty of care’ over the goods so it is important not to use the goods or do anything else which may damage them as this may mean the trader is not obliged to provide a full refund.

 

To cancel you must inform the trader either by letter, email or fax and it must be sent before the end of the cancellation period.  We would advise to include details (for example any order reference number) to help the trader match your cancellation request to their records.

 

Your next step:

 

If you want to pursue a civil claim and are presently based in Canada then you may want to ask a friend, relative or colleague based in the UK to pursue this on your behalf. To do this the person should write to the trader.  The letter should outline any relevant events regarding this issue and make it clear what you expect from the trader and why.  It should also give the trader a reasonable time to resolve the matter.  You should send the letter by recorded delivery which means that the trader has to sign for it. You will then have proof that it’s been received. You should also keep a copy of the letter. Template letters are available on our website. While there isn’t an appropriate template, you may use them as guidance for writing a letter of complaint.

 

You may also wish to contact your local equivalent of our service as they may be able to offer additional practical and legal advice; particularly with regards to your payment method.

 

Criminal offence:

 

I would like to confirm that attempting to restrict a person’s rights in law is a potential criminal offence.

 

What we’ll do:

 

We are going to report the matter to Trading Standards. While this may not help to resolve your dispute, it gives Trading Standards valuable information about how the trader operates. Someone from Trading Standards may contact you if they require further information.

 

If you require any further advice or information about this case, please do not hesitate to contact the Citizens Advice consumer service by return email or by calling 03454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.

 

Thank you for your enquiry."



So now the question is does an asic fall under any of those transactions listed?

Careful now, Red Star Mining could accuse you of spreading unwarranted FUD.

All posts deleted? Jeez, what's that going to mean?

If they're truely legit, it's a really weird decision to delete all your posts isn't it?  Fiaz probably made some appointments which aren't going to be real or something, I can't think about other reasons why all his posts are deleted.  Or the mods did, but I don't think they've any incentive to do that. (Or a mod must feel like he's scammed or something, but that won't be professional).

Nevertheless, I don't think we'll receive an answer from Alpha-T. Atleast not here. Let's hope not all those $ are gone..

If you read their last update once more you can find that, the statement self says the shipment will only start on 31July.