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    Author Topic: 🚀🛒[ANN] Vanig.io The Future of Shopping - Integrated E-Commerce & Supply Chain  (Read 17067 times)

    • faulerwilli
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    April 26, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
     #441
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    It's generally a good idea to ask questions to the devs on the telegram channel https://t.me/vanigplatform
    There you get quick information first hand. If you post this information then here in the forum, you can always read well and missed no more important news

  • Hendobox
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    April 26, 2018, 09:25:58 AM
     #442
    Quote from: Nathan01 on April 25, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
    Quote from: utclpn on April 25, 2018, 07:06:04 AM
    Lots of question answering on their official telegram channel. They have 20k + members in telegram channel still increasing. Ask there about sale and bonus queries if any.

    https://t.me/vanigplatform
    Thanks for bringing this here, I actually had a lot of questions that I wanted to ask, but I found up to 70% of them already by joining the telegram community.

  • Anilg
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    April 26, 2018, 10:04:04 AM
     #443
    Quote from: faulerwilli on April 26, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    It's generally a good idea to ask questions to the devs on the telegram channel https://t.me/vanigplatform
    There you get quick information first hand. If you post this information then here in the forum, you can always read well and missed no more important news

    Thanks for sharing response from Vanig team. I agree telegram is good platform if we need answers from Dev team.

  • jamzzz123
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    April 26, 2018, 10:28:38 AM
     #444
    Quote from: Hendobox on April 26, 2018, 09:25:58 AM
    Quote from: Nathan01 on April 25, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
    Quote from: utclpn on April 25, 2018, 07:06:04 AM
    Lots of question answering on their official telegram channel. They have 20k + members in telegram channel still increasing. Ask there about sale and bonus queries if any.

    https://t.me/vanigplatform

    Thanks for bringing this here, I actually had a lot of questions that I wanted to ask, but I found up to 70% of them already by joining the telegram community.
    I'm glad to hear that the telegram community is active, it's important to provide support to the new comers and potential investors giving them no reason NOT to invest

  • Cnote328
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    April 26, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
     #445
    Just reading Vanig whitepaper as part of the solution Vanig plans to target the inefficiencies of modern e-commerce and supply chains and will utilize smart contracts and the reputable ledger of a blockchain. I hope this project becomes a successful one.

  • ibininja
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    April 26, 2018, 12:05:24 PM
     #446
    Quote from: Cnote328 on April 26, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
    Just reading Vanig whitepaper as part of the solution Vanig plans to target the inefficiencies of modern e-commerce and supply chains and will utilize smart contracts and the reputable ledger of a blockchain. I hope this project becomes a successful one.

    I am curious to see the results of such implementation. If you are to produce or sell an item and all of its records are in the blockchain you can basically know everything there is to know about the item. For as long as the blockchain is valid.

  • nesh1
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    April 26, 2018, 12:30:32 PM
     #447
    Quote from: faulerwilli on April 26, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    It's generally a good idea to ask questions to the devs on the telegram channel https://t.me/vanigplatform
    There you get quick information first hand. If you post this information then here in the forum, you can always read well and missed no more important news
    Yes their Telegram is very important for fast updates and the same thing goes for their Twitter they have almost 16k followers there here is a link https://twitter.com/vanigplatform.

  • Hendobox
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    April 26, 2018, 12:35:27 PM
     #448
    Vanig has the product listing and customer reviews as part of the information registered on the blockchain which will enable a more trusted trading environment.

  • Ace44
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    April 26, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
     #449
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    You got that right, heard about the fees thing on twitter, is funny how firms charge such ridiculous price in the name of fees, that's why cryptocurrency has to be embrace, issues like this will be thrashed, talking about the fiat option on vanig, i think is good to create options for individuals, as been flexible matters a lot in a project

  • phantam
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    April 26, 2018, 01:01:48 PM
     #450
    Quote from: Ace44 on April 26, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    You got that right, heard about the fees thing on twitter, is funny how firms charge such ridiculous price in the name of fees, that's why cryptocurrency has to be embrace, issues like this will be thrashed, talking about the fiat option on vanig, i think is good to create options for individuals, as been flexible matters a lot in a project

    Yep it's true the ability to self regulate fees is one of the best reasons for crypto to gain footing, and its something that i'm surprised isn't more appreciated, it gets a bad rap when theirs congestion like when BTC had its backlog and fees got pretty high, but at the end of the day other networks fees remained low, and that kind of auto regulation of fees is so great, vs a company like paypal just deciding to raise fees.

    I think that sort of customer/manufacture being able to have input on how much their willing to pay for cash transfers is part of what makes things like vanig exciting for businesses.

  • gee777
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    April 26, 2018, 02:35:25 PM
     #451
    Quote from: Hendobox on April 26, 2018, 12:35:27 PM
    Vanig has the product listing and customer reviews as part of the information registered on the blockchain which will enable a more trusted trading environment.

    Costumers review is very important in anything you do especially in the e-commerce section, it is going to help Vanig know the services that are of low quality or offer low services on the site from the more efficient ones which will also help in decision making.

  • faulerwilli
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    April 26, 2018, 03:07:21 PM
     #452
    Quote from: gee777 on April 26, 2018, 02:35:25 PM
    Quote from: Hendobox on April 26, 2018, 12:35:27 PM
    Vanig has the product listing and customer reviews as part of the information registered on the blockchain which will enable a more trusted trading environment.

    Costumers review is very important in anything you do especially in the e-commerce section, it is going to help Vanig know the services that are of low quality or offer low services on the site from the more efficient ones which will also help in decision making.


    You're talking about a good topic, customer reviews are often a great help in purchasing these days. I'm still not quite through the whitepaper, does anyone know if you will also get vanig tokens for product reviews?

  • cryptorani
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    April 26, 2018, 03:09:45 PM
     #453
    Quote from: jamzzz123 on April 26, 2018, 07:13:55 AM
    Quote from: Sonofspada on April 26, 2018, 06:45:51 AM
    From the white paper,  it is ideal to say Vanig helps to solve all the problems that are among the existing supply chain and E-commerce platform.
    Vanig are offering an integrated e-commerce and supply chain solution. we are providing track and trace, effective recalls, eliminating middlemans with supply chain and with e-commerce we are having lower fees, instant financial transaction, crypto payments and an AI powered easy to use website.


    I can't say it will solve all the problems. But definitely with blockchain technology it will be able to provide lot better options and all's better discounts.

  • Abah007
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    April 26, 2018, 03:41:11 PM
     #454
    Quote from: faulerwilli on April 26, 2018, 03:07:21 PM
    Quote from: gee777 on April 26, 2018, 02:35:25 PM
    Quote from: Hendobox on April 26, 2018, 12:35:27 PM
    Vanig has the product listing and customer reviews as part of the information registered on the blockchain which will enable a more trusted trading environment.

    Costumers review is very important in anything you do especially in the e-commerce section, it is going to help Vanig know the services that are of low quality or offer low services on the site from the more efficient ones which will also help in decision making.


    You're talking about a good topic, customer reviews are often a great help in purchasing these days. I'm still not quite through the whitepaper, does anyone know if you will also get vanig tokens for product reviews?
    I think having a customer review is also a good addition, I think it will act positively and also enable a reliance for trading.

  • Sozialtourist
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    April 26, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
     #455
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    I already thought that they won't accept credit or debit cards because of the possibility to do a chargeback and get the money back. It's good though to have this confirmed from an official site by a Telegram admin.

  • utclpn
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    April 26, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
     #456
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 26, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    I already thought that they won't accept credit or debit cards because of the possibility to do a chargeback and get the money back. It's good though to have this confirmed from an official site by a Telegram admin.

    Actually this quite expensive for investors also, and some countries government is not allowing to invest in ICO by using credit/debit card. 

  • Sonofspada
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    April 26, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
     #457
    Vanig is used to find the products and this is one of the best ways to order the products on the Vagin platform

  • Zombie259
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    April 26, 2018, 04:51:08 PM
     #458
    Quote from: utclpn on April 26, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 26, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    I already thought that they won't accept credit or debit cards because of the possibility to do a chargeback and get the money back. It's good though to have this confirmed from an official site by a Telegram admin.

    Actually this quite expensive for investors also, and some countries government is not allowing to invest in ICO by using credit/debit card. 

    And some credit card companies block the payment. I have heard about up to 180 days to receive the Token after the payment.

  • nesh1
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    April 26, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
     #459
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 26, 2018, 04:51:08 PM
    Quote from: utclpn on April 26, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 26, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 26, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
    Quote from: Zombie259 on April 25, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Sozialtourist on April 25, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    Will it be via bank transfer or will they also allow credit card payments? I know other projects who did accept credit cards, only sent the tokens purchased via this method after a long waiting time.

    The extra paypal fee is iditoical, no wonder that more and more people refuse FIAT payments and use crypto payments.

    Not sure about the credit vs bank, but i'm pretty sure credit cards have started blocking most crypto purchases (credit used to by anonymous assets is a nono as its too easy to defraud the credit companies i guess)

    As for paypal, ya they seriously are making some odd moves, but i also heard they are patenting some new blockchain tech or are trying to, so seems that their fighting crypto on the front (in a dumb way and shooting themselves in the foot with extra fees) but on the back end are keeping their options open with crypto

    I asked that question in telegram channel and admin replied me. "For FIAT contributions in the token sale wire transfers will be the only mode of payment. No payment gateways for credit or debit cards."

    I already thought that they won't accept credit or debit cards because of the possibility to do a chargeback and get the money back. It's good though to have this confirmed from an official site by a Telegram admin.

    Actually this quite expensive for investors also, and some countries government is not allowing to invest in ICO by using credit/debit card. 

    And some credit card companies block the payment. I have heard about up to 180 days to receive the Token after the payment.
    Yes by paying with credit card you actually let the company pay for you and you do not know for sure when they will pay it it id a lot more secure and fast if you buy it with other crypto currencies.

  • Ace44
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    April 26, 2018, 05:50:33 PM
     #460
    Quote from: phantam on April 26, 2018, 01:01:48 PM
    Quote from: Ace44 on April 26, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
    Quote from: phantam on April 25, 2018, 06:29:06 PM
    Quote from: girib1684 on April 25, 2018, 05:40:30 PM
    Guys, For contributing in sale they offered crypto currency option including USD. That's mean there is FIAT option also available?

    I believe so, from what i read FIAT is an option though i tend to just always use crypto, don't like using fiat online anymore ever since i started really getting into crypto (i'm starting to stop using paypal even they said their starting some stupid 4.99 fee per international transfer on top of their regular fees..... meanwhile people are sending millions on crypto networks for less than a dollar total LOL.

    The market needs to start adopting crypto more, something like vanig that can bring the real world marketplace to crypto would really be nice

    You got that right, heard about the fees thing on twitter, is funny how firms charge such ridiculous price in the name of fees, that's why cryptocurrency has to be embrace, issues like this will be thrashed, talking about the fiat option on vanig, i think is good to create options for individuals, as been flexible matters a lot in a project

    Yep it's true the ability to self regulate fees is one of the best reasons for crypto to gain footing, and its something that i'm surprised isn't more appreciated, it gets a bad rap when theirs congestion like when BTC had its backlog and fees got pretty high, but at the end of the day other networks fees remained low, and that kind of auto regulation of fees is so great, vs a company like paypal just deciding to raise fees.

    I think that sort of customer/manufacture being able to have input on how much their willing to pay for cash transfers is part of what makes things like vanig exciting for businesses.

    Yes and is really funny that people can't actually see the picture of what regulated fees can cause, blockchain is more like giving power to the people, like a democratic kind of rule, as oppose to the monopolize society that regulation has created, regulation is good if properly monitored but in a situation where no one is doing such, the community will be left cheated 
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