Has anyone used goldmoney.com before? It's a way to avoid taxes on silver.

Do not confuse tax avoidance (generally considered a crime) with tax deferral (legal incentive).

If you are a US citizen, you won't pay taxes while the metal is held in custodianship by GoldMoney. That much is true. However, when you repatriate either the metal or the funds, you will be taxed. There is also a reporting requirement to inform the US gov't when holding any asset valued over $10,000 anywhere outside of the nation's jurisdiction. Penalties apply for failure to report.

There are other methods of protecting your assets that do allow for an annual tax-free income of about $90,000 in the US, but the laws are always subject to change at the whim of a politician. Again, the assets and investments cannot be repatriated above the ~$90k limit without incurring tax liabilities.

GoldMoney is only a means of storing assets outside of your own country. The company does what it can to protect its clients, but there are limits to its abilities. Recently, metal holdings have been returned to Dutch GoldMoney clients after being informed that their government now considers GoldMoney to be classified as a financial investment service and subject to ridiculous regulations that would effectively negate the company's beneficial aspects. All GoldMoney does is store physical metal on a client's behalf.

When using any highly visible precious metals custodian service, it is my strong recommendation that you have a private, reputable and secure backup facility ready to accept your metals in the event that your own country targets GoldMoney or similar services such as Gold Bullion International.

Having a private storage facility picked out means your metal can be shipped there and stored just as any other physical item might be stored. This is the equivalent of a safe deposit box at a bank, only not part of the banking system. Think Brinks, but aim smaller - big companies are easy targets.

Hey cypherdoc: why do some governments seem keen on making precious metals hard or too costly to acquire/hold/use?

again i'm amazed at how diff ppl look at the same chart and draw completely opposite conclusions.  no, the RSI is only half way from the 50 to 70 overbought level and will probably overshoot for quite a bit of time.


no, the RSI is only at 43.65 and needs to drop to 30 before you can even begin to think its oversold.  do not focus too much on these indicators.  look at the price.  does that curl down look like its suddenly going to reverse up to you?  not me.


i agree.  follow your own advise.  silver and pm miners will lead gold down.



no i don't.  i think the CB's probably intervened as gold approached $2000 but now have stepped back.  the markets are behaving rationally to me.  the real game changer was the start of what looks like a long term revulsion of UST debt.  makes sense since we were downgraded, Europes sovereign debt problems, and the fact that everyone knows the US is the ultimate debtor.

all that money has to go somewhere.  when stocks failed to die after 2 overthrows to the downside out of the bear flag, that was a signal that they'd shoot to the upside.  also Europeans fleeing to the US stock mkt helps as well.  as long as the $DXY doesn't start shooting to the upside this will go on for several months.

also the 2 asset bubbles left to pop are gold and UST's.  all assets are being repriced downwards.  i still think we are in deflation.  its a little confusing b/c markets are diverging once again via the USD falling and gold/silver stagnating.  this gives the UST and gold mkts a chance to come down off their highs.  but in aggregate i think assets are dropping in price.  at some point early next year we will probably get everything in sync to the downside with the USD skyrocketing.

thats how i see it at least for now.

Ah ok, yes - each country has its own absurdities. Does VAT apply when exchanging between metals (e.g. gold->silver and vice versa)? And how does GM avoid VAT on silver? What about incorporation or a trust formed in an unassociated jurisdiction?

Don't F the gov, it F's you back harder. Just don't play by their rules...

Hypothetically, would your analysis change if the USD were to break below 73?

i've been thinking about this myself.  if it breaks below 73 you'd have to assume your HI scenario is near.  but it will depend what the chart looks like when it does so.  i'm always looking for false breakdowns and breakouts as you may have noticed with gold, UST's, and the miners.  quite a lesson, huh?

A distinct possibility; I think that's going to be a 2012 situation, after this year's continued turmoil has bled off.


The only point I question is investor influence in gold at this point. Entities that need real assets the most are major banks with excessive derivative exposure. Gold is the most effective of any asset, with a market that's always available and relatively liquid. Any central bank could start buying up gold (including contracts for future production) at current prices and before the general investment community realizes, none would be left.

Banks could be recapitalized, asset prices stabilized and the world's markets rescued. That would require a monstrous revaluation of gold, though - much more than a doubling from here and too disruptive for the global economy to survive without a lot of breakage. So typical investor sentiment is really supportive of financial institutions' efforts at self-preservation, including the Fed.


Since we agree on the end result of a deflationary crunch, it comes back again to the path taken. All of the listed factors are overwhelming, and you pointed out that most will interpret rising interest rates as bullish. That will amount to whistling past the graveyard and allow the illusion to persist. With an economy of such magnitude, that can last for many months, even years.

Yes, the private sector has been the recipient of all the crap while the banking and gov't sectors shuck off the dregs as they struggle to survive while still maintaining control. I'm assuming you're not in or associated directly with government. Private industry is subject to the rules imposed upon it by whatever jurisdiction it's under; government makes and enforces the rules (in collusion with banks). In a bad situation, government will be able to put on a show for much longer than the private sector.

But again, it's an illusion - just one that could last for a long time to come. The point is that gov't may pay lip service to austerity, but in reality will exempt itself from such measures while the private sector continues to be pummeled. There's the resumption of civil unrest.


I actually think the big powers that are playing the game can keep it going for some time to come; maybe another year or so. It'll require more drastic action at each stage, coming closer to complete failure each time. A lot of people will never fully grasp what's going on, which is part of what the banks & gov't rely on to maintain the illusion.


I don't think they ever stopped.


Agreed. Even then, it would only be perceived as a discrete acceleration - the "new normal" mentality. After a period marked by adjustment to the new normal, another crisis can hit and trigger further acceleration. Each individual inflexion point won't be significant enough to point at and claim "this is where hyperinflation starts".

It's a rough deal, that's for sure - I fully expect more false breakdowns/breakouts as we proceed, along with more exaggerated smoke & mirrors and insane legislation.


Agnico-Eagle closed one of their mines due to a safety issue, not something occurring in the market overall. The ~20% knee-jerk reaction is to be expected, especially considering sentiment. Personally, I think if management decided to close the mine, it means that the potential for loss of equipment/personnel/profit and subsequent bad press sufficiently outweighed whatever downtime may be necessary to assess what was compromised and in need of corrective action. A prudent business call.

On the flipside, AEM being down such a hefty amount is a mind-boggling buying opportunity, though I'd wait to see if it can dip lower on further news about the mine inspection. The company has numerous other production assets, even with the temporary shutdown of a major mine. Taking into account the fact that global production is around 125mm troy ounces per year and AEM production is nearly 1% of that, there will be further shortage of physical metal. When a crop of oranges is hit by frost damage, the price of orange juice rises. Basic supply & demand: decreased supply with increasing (or at least steady) demand leads to rising prices.

Where will the gold be sourced from to supply the COMEX when there are already procurement issues and a declining store of deliverable metal at all exchanges? This event will have short-term impact. The question is: how long will it take for most investors to take stock of the situation and realize that their panic is unwarranted? Probably too late to take advantage of it.

stocks are now up and out of the bear flag.  it'll be clear sailing from here on out.

foolish?  blah, blah, blah.

successful investing often involves taking risk when the odds are in you favor.  i first called this stock bounce here:

https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/35956.msg560220#msg560220

and yes i've been piling on as the momentum has accelerated off of a failed double attempt to send us into a wave 3 down.  penetration of the upper end of the bear flag usually involves a huge spike up and thru as the short seller stops are triggered off the top.  this is what i was playing for and was rewarded but not after the market tried to make me dump my longs with a fake breakdown a couple of days prior.

I hope the banks fail all around the system but it's not going to happen under the watch of the government protectors. The governments and central banks will protect the bansters at any cost to the innocent civilians. I have far too much money in my bank account right now, I think I should buy some gold.