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    Author Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread  (Read 1277359 times)
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    • jimhsu
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    January 13, 2014, 08:37:34 PM
     #801
    Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 08:31:42 PM
    Quote from: jimhsu on January 13, 2014, 08:25:55 PM
    Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 08:24:13 PM
    About dedicated server

    Well, obviously; I assume that the counterpartyd instance running on your VPS/dedicated doesn't have your actual wallet on there. That would be on your own computer.

    Hum... On my computer in order to run counterpartyd, I must have a bitcoind running in the backgroud.
    And for it to run, it need a wallet.
    Therefore yes, my wallet would need to be on this dedicated server.
    I don't see how it can work otherwise.

    (on the meantime, someone uploading the XCP database would resolve my main problem.)
    ('guess +4h isn't that much after days and days... 'afraid a new DB will be needed if soft is changed on v0.9 out)

    It could be a wallet ... not your personal wallet with lots of BTC, but just a randomly generated bitcoin wallet.
    Dans les champs de l'observation le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparé

  • panonym
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    January 13, 2014, 08:45:45 PM
     #802
    Ok...
    Admit I have a dedicated server with bitcoind, an empty wallet and counterpartyd running.
    How do I spend money from the wallet that is on my computer?
    The only way I see that possible is trough raw transaction, which appear way too complex to me.
    That's raw offline BTC sign - online BTC transmission.
    Need one more step for XCP.
    Not even doc available on the subject to my knowing.

    But if you have a simple solution, I'm reading.

  • jimhsu
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    January 13, 2014, 08:52:41 PM
     #803
    OK, I see your problem. (You don't want to run bitcoind locally, and don't trust a server). In this case, we'll have to wait for a online wallet implementation, or upgrade your computer/memory to be able to run bitcoind. So far I don't know of a way to sign transactions offline, though it should be possible.
    Dans les champs de l'observation le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparé

  • panonym
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    January 13, 2014, 09:06:05 PM
     #804
    Quote from: jimhsu on January 13, 2014, 08:52:41 PM
    OK, I see your problem. (You don't want to run bitcoind locally, and don't trust a server). In this case, we'll have to wait for a online wallet implementation, or upgrade your computer/memory to be able to run bitcoind. So far I don't know of a way to sign transactions offline, though it should be possible.
    Yup, that confirm the point that was troubling me.
    If you have really sensitive data (such as a wealthy wallet, 'can dream), you cannot fully trust a compagny providing a VPS or VDS.
    You have to manage your server yourself. (+ learn about tons of thing...)

    I don't mind running bitcoind on my computer. It's what I do right now.
    I don't mind running counterpartyd either.
    I just have this DB creation problem because of low RAM/hardware or don't know what.
    I was just studying the possibility.
    Thanks for the conversation.

    That say, I'm thinking about buying a new piece of hardware.
    Basically a fanless (silent) server at home, on 24h/24h, 365day/year.
    On which I run bitcoind, counterpartyd, litecoind, etc. + hosting for my websites.
    Any cheap recommendation? or very good ratio quality/price?
    ('making sure slowliness of DB-creation-from-start or other is a problem of the past)
    Thanks for any info.
    Link on must read about security very appreciated too. 'beginner level -.-'
    How to be sure no one else that you can get in? (seems to be a life job, high level career..)

  • subSTRATA
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    January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
     #805
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.
    theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.

  • klee
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    January 13, 2014, 09:34:53 PM
     #806
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.
    Cartels.

  • panonym
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    January 13, 2014, 09:43:19 PM
     #807
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.
    From my understanding, low chance.
    I might be wrong - please someone with real knowledge confirm/refute this -
    But they just can't.
    OP_RETURN is a clean way to satisfy +/- everyone.
    Without it, you can use multi-sign (even if I don't concretely understand it), what the dev just did.
    And even if that fail, you can always link a message to every transaction.

    So at worst, they could make it more expensive, but not stop it.

  • led_lcd
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    January 13, 2014, 09:45:50 PM
     #808
    Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 03:03:58 PM
    I understand what you say. But it's not convincing enough for me to use your betting system.
    'certainly not the only one.
    Sure an honest feeder will make more money as time pass, reputation increase, ++money as bet rise higher.
    So thousands of people will want to become feeder.
    Random guy must choose randomly which feed chose, or after 2 month, choosing the one with the best reputation (discovered through hard research, nothing easy).

    I do share your concerns. However, even the real world has shown there is no best answer yet (LIBOR).

    What you are describing characterises majority of how bitcoin and math based currencies are being traded at the moment. Users of exchanges are trusting the exchanges that the exchanges don't close up and take all the wallets. Of course some exchanges have done this...

  • led_lcd
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    January 13, 2014, 09:51:05 PM
     #809
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.

    What would be their motivation to block these transactions?  If some of their members has assets tied to XCP or MSC, why would they want to do this?

    When 0.9 is released with OP_RETURN, it will be part of the trunk/reference implementation. If someone wanted to block it, they would have to compile it out.

    This argument once again brings up the point that for the health of the network, there shouldn't be so much centralisation of hash power to a few number of pools.

  • subSTRATA
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    January 13, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
     #810
    Quote from: led_lcd on January 13, 2014, 09:51:05 PM
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.

    What would be their motivation to block these transactions?

    The more transactions are in the block, the more data miner must submit to network. Due to network propagation, if some other miner
    mines block with much less transactions in almost the same moment his block will most likely propagate much faster and thus orphan
    block first miner mined, one with many transactions. In other words, increased number of transactions will never be cheered by miners.

    Some might do it simply because they can and that is perfectly fine.

    BTW, even though there is no guarantee for so many things when it comes to XCP there is 724.8935 BTC burned already at the time of
    this post. Can't belive it. If I or someone else asked for 0.01 BTC for free no one would send it. All you morons would just go over that
    the same way you would go over a guy on a street asking for a change to buy food. Fuck you! I wish you lose all your money invested.
    theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.

  • jimhsu
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    January 13, 2014, 10:05:39 PM
     #811
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
    Quote from: led_lcd on January 13, 2014, 09:51:05 PM
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 09:32:51 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 08:07:45 PM
    Any chance the BTC mining collective would simply block XCP (and MSC) transactions altogether, making the whole protocol useless?

    High chance.

    What would be their motivation to block these transactions?

    The more transactions are in the block, the more data miner must submit to network. Due to network propagation, if some other miner
    mines block with much less transactions in almost the same moment his block will most likely propagate much faster and thus orphan
    block first miner mined, one with many transactions. In other words, increased number of transactions will never be cheered by miners.

    Some might do it simply because they can and that is perfectly fine.

    Then again that is weighed by the reward of generating 0.0001 additional BTC in revenue (that is why transactions have fees, anyways). Depending on the price of bitcoin in the future, that could be quite significant.

    Transaction fees already make up something like 1% of block revenue, and this number will only go up.

    https://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees-usd?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

    Plus, XCP and MSC transactions generate a LOT of fees (relatively). Study blockchain.info to see why.
    Dans les champs de l'observation le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparé

  • panonym
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    January 13, 2014, 10:12:08 PM
     #812
    3615 My Life ~.~

    I guess the more I learn, the more I become unsatisfied with many things.
    Mostly security, convenience and trust issue.
    Which create a kind of frustration due to my ignorance and inability to improve things.

    I may become one amongst many who start to really realise how little we grasp about Internet.

    Step by step. No other way.
    Turn on, keyboard, web, email, copypast, http(s), TCP/IP, smtp, ftp, hosting, bittorent, tor, i2p, freenet, server, security etc.
    Oscillating between "Damn important I must learn" and "what for, 'never gonna grasp it all, too complex".

    3615 My Life ~.~

    (Off topic I know, sorry about that. But I'm starting to feel comfortable in this new community and we don't have a dedicated forum yet, so~ here it goes. 'will not abuse ^^)

  • led_lcd
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    January 13, 2014, 10:43:59 PM
     #813
    Quote from: subSTRATA on January 13, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
    BTW, even though there is no guarantee for so many things when it comes to XCP there is 724.8935 BTC burned already at the time of
    this post. Can't belive it. If I or someone else asked for 0.01 BTC for free no one would send it. All you morons would just go over that
    the same way you would go over a guy on a street asking for a change to buy food. Fuck you! I wish you lose all your money invested.

    I'm not sure what your point is here. Fine if it's OT. Otherwise, have a rest and re-gather your thoughts. :-)

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    January 13, 2014, 11:06:44 PM
     #814
    Quote from: becherovka on January 13, 2014, 07:36:43 PM
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 07:35:38 PM
    Quote from: becherovka on January 13, 2014, 07:24:56 PM
    • User-Created Assets: Issue user‐defined currencies/assets and pay dividends on them. You may now issue user-defined currencies/assets on Counterparty using mainnet.

    So it means we can build DAC's on this right now? Any API upcoming?

    Good question: What would you need to build a DAC on Counterparty? This would be helpful to note here.

    A read-only API is already in the product. It is in the process of being expanded, and will be shortly released along with API documentation. At that point, you can build whatever you want on Counterparty. Smiley
    Visit the official Counterparty forums: http://counterpartytalk.org

  • SyRenity
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    January 14, 2014, 12:18:49 AM
     #815
    Quote from: BiggestFish on January 14, 2014, 12:15:30 AM
    A better argument against XCP, which also applies to cryptocoins in general, is that it won't ever find a large enough market.

    As someone who lives in the US, I have yet to encounter a problem that bitcoin could solve for me. I don't want to buy illegal drugs. I don't want to throw money away slowly at 1% house edge by flipping coins. As of the beginning of this year SatoshiDICE and SilkRoad comprised something like 80% of the bitcoin economy. The other 20% was price speculation. Being able to buy regular stuff with bitcoins is a gimmick.

    Now I am not saying bitcoin doesn't have its uses for people who live under corrupt regimes with very inflationary currencies. I'm sure it does. Money remittance is a pretty large market that bitcoin could solve, as we have seen from China's discovery of bitcoin. But that's just 1 special case.

    Ethereum, XCP, MSC, and all the wonderful technology it offers like distributed exchange, financial derivatives, Turing-complete computation, etc. Will it really find a market? I personally think it's incredible that the technology exists and feel like I'm living in the future, but who will actually use these things? You can bet with very low edge already on betfair. If you want to trade financial instruments with low latency you can't beat a centralized exchange setup. People might use bitcoins to get around capital regulations or taxation, but do they really want to trade financial derivatives or compute things in a convoluted fashion? Will enough people even understand these features to be able to use them?

    I hope I just lack imagination though...I hope other people smarter than me will create new markets with this technology.

    Not to offend, but I get a dejavu from 2011 Smiley.

    Let's see how deep it goes.

  • SyRenity
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    January 14, 2014, 12:21:14 AM
     #816
    By the way, with this rate of things we pass 1M$ of market cap very soon.

    I just hope the distribution is fair enough (though I presume that scripting multiple transfers will be simple enough).

  • BitThink
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    January 14, 2014, 12:22:47 AM
     #817
    All XCP transactions are just regular BTC transactions. No any reason for BTC community to block XCP transactions. XCP is even better than MSC in this aspect. MSC transaction always sends a dust to exodus address, which is discouraged by Luke Jr's patch. XCP has no such issue.

    BTW, other than NXT, which is competing with BTC, XCP and msc are both try to improve BTC.

  • BitThink
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    January 14, 2014, 12:30:21 AM
     #818
    Quote from: SyRenity on January 14, 2014, 12:21:14 AM
    By the way, with this rate of things we pass 1M$ of market cap very soon.

    I just hope the distribution is fair enough (though I presume that scripting multiple transfers will be simple enough).
    Pay more, get more and everyone can buy. Is there any more fair way to distribute? Maybe you mean more even distributed?

  • SyRenity
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    January 14, 2014, 12:34:07 AM
     #819
    Quote from: BitThink on January 14, 2014, 12:30:21 AM
    Pay more, get more and everyone can buy. Is there any more fair way to distribute? Maybe you mean more even distributed?

    I mean to avoid NXT situation, that moved a great concept into speculators hands.

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    January 14, 2014, 12:37:18 AM
     #820
    Quote from: BiggestFish on January 14, 2014, 12:15:30 AM
    A better argument against XCP, which also applies to cryptocoins in general, is that it won't ever find a large enough market.

    As someone who lives in the US, I have yet to encounter a problem that bitcoin could solve for me. I don't want to buy illegal drugs. I don't want to throw money away slowly at 1% house edge by flipping coins. As of the beginning of this year SatoshiDICE and SilkRoad comprised something like 80% of the bitcoin economy. The other 20% was price speculation. Being able to buy regular stuff with bitcoins is a gimmick.

    Now I am not saying bitcoin doesn't have its uses for people who live under corrupt regimes with very inflationary currencies. I'm sure it does. Money remittance is a pretty large market that bitcoin could solve, as we have seen from China's discovery of bitcoin. But that's just 1 special case.

    Ethereum, XCP, MSC, and all the wonderful technology it offers like distributed exchange, financial derivatives, Turing-complete computation, etc. Will it really find a market? I personally think it's incredible that the technology exists and feel like I'm living in the future, but who will actually use these things? You can bet with very low edge already on betfair. If you want to trade financial instruments with low latency you can't beat a centralized exchange setup. People might use bitcoins to get around capital regulations or taxation, but do they really want to trade financial derivatives or compute things in a convoluted fashion? Will enough people even understand these features to be able to use them?

    I hope I just lack imagination though...I hope other people smarter than me will create new markets with this technology.
    Just need to check the volume of btct and bitfunder before they are closed. The one day volume of btct is already higher than the total number of burnt BTC in counterparty.
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