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    Author Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread  (Read 1277669 times)
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    • true-asset
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    Uro: 1 URO = 1 metric tonne of Urea N46 fertilizer


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    September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
     #9061
    We are seriously considering moving URO to Counterparty after out 6 month distribution phase.

    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?

    Also, can anyone link me to a few academic papers reviewing the security of Counterparty against counterfeiting of tokens of faking transactions? 
    Uro: A Real Long Term Currency, 1 URO = 1 metric tonne of Urea N46 fertilizer[/url]
    Urea N46 tracks gradual increases in energy and food prices over the long term.

  • deliciousowl
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    September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
     #9062
    Quote from: true-asset on September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
    We are seriously considering moving URO to Counterparty after out 6 month distribution phase.

    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?

    Also, can anyone link me to a few academic papers reviewing the security of Counterparty against counterfeiting of tokens of faking transactions? 

    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.

    Regarding the security, you can look at any academic papers that show the security of the Bitcoin blockchain. Also, the Counterparty source code has been reviewed by well respected Bitcoin security experts Sergio Lerner and Peter Todd.

  • Sammie Sna
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    September 01, 2014, 12:41:28 PM
     #9063
    XCP is a good coin i have never ever see.I find out this coin at a Chinese forum and now i have fallen love in it.Hope XCP can get better and better.

  • PhantomPhreak (OP)
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    Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder


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    September 01, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
    Merited by nutildah (2)
     #9064
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
    Quote from: true-asset on September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
    We are seriously considering moving URO to Counterparty after out 6 month distribution phase.

    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?


    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.


    That's right. It's pretty much impossible to prevent Counterparty from using Bitcoin, because of the many ways in which Counterparty can store data in the blockchain.

  • romerun
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    Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.


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    September 01, 2014, 03:33:56 PM
     #9065
    The only problem I see is when/if bitcoin tx fee becomes too high for small value tx.

  • weex
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    September 02, 2014, 06:16:12 PM
    Merited by nutildah (4)
     #9066
    Quote from: romerun on September 01, 2014, 03:33:56 PM
    The only problem I see is when/if bitcoin tx fee becomes too high for small value tx.
    Somewhat related, I just posted this at the forum https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,544.msg3269.html

    This brings an interesting question for me as a relative newcomer but someone who is now highly interested. Which platform do you guys prefer for discussion outside of this thread? The forum or reddit? I would vote for reddit since it has a large user base, voting and threaded comments, and what many would consider to be a familiar interface.

    From a high-level, I am really impressed with Counterparty but puzzled by the lack of awareness in the crypto-community. People are throwing tens of millions of dollars at pie-in-the-sky systems when this works now and was launched ultra-fairly. My feeling is that Counterparty hasn't captured the imagination of the Bitcoin 2.0 community and that Bitcoin early adopters are mostly disillusioned to pushing the limits of blockchain technology.

    Or is it more that Counterparty isn't ready for prime time and the community is keeping it quiet until it has all the features needed to erupt and take over the world?

    /rant

  • Matt Y
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    Counterpartying


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    September 02, 2014, 06:32:59 PM
     #9067
    The bitcoin community at large is behind when it comes to what Counterparty is and what it means to Bitcoin and crypto in general. I'm guessing that will correct itself shortly, just a matter of time.
    http://donatexcp.com/

  • Matt Y
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    September 02, 2014, 11:16:50 PM
     #9068
    Happy to announce that BetXCP has an automatic BTC -> XCP Vendding machine, courtesy of the guys over at Vennd. Thanks Jeremy and Jonathan!

    Vennding machine: http://betxcp.com/vennd

    New BetXCP thread: https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/767510.0
    http://donatexcp.com/

  • deliciousowl
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    September 03, 2014, 12:09:59 AM
     #9069
    Quote from: Sammie Sna on September 01, 2014, 12:41:28 PM
    XCP is a good coin i have never ever see.I find out this coin at a Chinese forum and now i have fallen love in it.Hope XCP can get better and better.

    XCP also has a Chinese forum, but it could use some more activity...
    https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/board,7.0.html

  • iCEBREAKER
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    September 03, 2014, 01:54:31 AM
     #9070
    Quote from: PhantomPhreak on September 01, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
    Quote from: true-asset on September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?

    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.


    That's right. It's pretty much impossible to prevent Counterparty from using Bitcoin, because of the many ways in which Counterparty can store data in the blockchain.

    BTC has strong incentives to prevent/penalize "parasitic" data in its un-prunable blockchain.

    OTOH, Cryptonite welcomes messages being passed through its fast and light mini-blockchain:

    Quote from: bitfreak! on July 28, 2014, 01:01:55 AM
    Micro-Transactions

    Cryptonite has superior support for micro-transactions because we don't have to worry about keeping any so called "dust" in the blockchain forever. Since blockchain bloat is not a problem, blocks can be larger and we can encourage the use of custom transaction messages.

    Quote
    Transaction Messages

    Like micro-transactions, although possible, the Bitcoin community tends to discourage the storage of text messages in the blockchain because they must be stored forever. The early versions of the bitcoin-qt GUI included a feature for including a custom text message with your transaction but it has since been removed from the GUI in order to slow down blockchain bloat. Including a custom message with a transaction is a very common and useful feature that can play an important role in many merchant scenarios, so it's clearly important for any currency to support such a common and useful feature.

    The scalable nature of the mini-blockchain scheme relieves us from the concern of blockchain bloat and we can have full support for transaction messages for the same reason we can support micro-transactions: all the transactions containing the messages can be forgotten by the network after some relatively short period of time. Cryptonite has native support for attaching custom messages to transactions, since we don't use script the message field is embedded into the structure of the transaction, meaning you cannot have a different message for each output, only one message per transaction.

    Cryptonite is based on BTC, so modifying/extending XCP compatibility to use it isn't much of a stretch.

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  • PhantomPhreak (OP)
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    September 03, 2014, 02:41:41 AM
     #9071
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 03, 2014, 01:54:31 AM
    Quote from: PhantomPhreak on September 01, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
    Quote from: true-asset on September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?

    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.


    That's right. It's pretty much impossible to prevent Counterparty from using Bitcoin, because of the many ways in which Counterparty can store data in the blockchain.

    BTC has strong incentives to prevent/penalize "parasitic" data in its un-prunable blockchain.

    Just for the record, Counterparty transactions are prunable from the Bitcoin blockchain.

  • led_lcd
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    September 03, 2014, 03:13:37 AM
     #9072
    Quote from: thermal sun on August 30, 2014, 04:03:26 PM
    Hi there.

    I am trying to use vennd and when i start it it fails. So I ran the configuartion tester and it says:

    "

    Code:
    my_user@myserver:~$ groovy-2.3.6/bin/groovy vennd/ConfigurationTester.groovy
    org.codehaus.groovy.control.MultipleCompilationErrorsException: startup failed:
    /home/my_user/vennd/ConfigurationTester.groovy: 42: unable to resolve class CounterpartyAPI
     @ line 42, column 27.
               counterpartyAPI = new CounterpartyAPI()
                                 ^

    /home/my_user/vennd/ConfigurationTester.groovy: 43: unable to resolve class BitcoinAPI
     @ line 43, column 22.
               bitcoinAPI = new BitcoinAPI()
                            ^

    /home/my_user/vennd/ConfigurationTester.groovy: 107: unable to resolve class BitcoinAPI
     @ line 107, column 27.
               def bitcoinTest = new BitcoinAPI()
                                 ^

    /home/my_user/vennd/ConfigurationTester.groovy: 126: unable to resolve class CounterpartyAPI
     @ line 126, column 32.
               def counterpartyTest = new CounterpartyAPI()
                                      ^

    4 errors
    "

    I tried using 3 different versions of groovy but they all gave the same error.
    I also checked the xcp and btc clients and connections, they all work fine as i have even issued a test asset with that wallet moments earlier.
    I am using bitcoin and counterparty on testnet.

    vennd is a key project for the counterparty ecosystem and so your help will be very appreciated.

    By default the Groovy runtime environment only adds the current working directory into the classpath. You can either change directory into vennd and re-execute the command or add the vennd directory into your classpath.

  • iCEBREAKER
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    September 03, 2014, 03:54:49 AM
     #9073
    Quote from: PhantomPhreak on September 03, 2014, 02:41:41 AM
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 03, 2014, 01:54:31 AM
    Quote from: PhantomPhreak on September 01, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
    Quote from: true-asset on September 01, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
    Some of our community members have expressed concerns that Bitcoin Core may be modified to prevent Counterparty from working in future versions down the track.

    Is this a genuine concern of just FUD?

    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.


    That's right. It's pretty much impossible to prevent Counterparty from using Bitcoin, because of the many ways in which Counterparty can store data in the blockchain.

    BTC has strong incentives to prevent/penalize "parasitic" data in its un-prunable blockchain.

    Just for the record, Counterparty transactions are prunable from the Bitcoin blockchain.

    Thanks for that valuable information.  XCP is a most tempting hedge against ViaCoin, but I worry about the arms race between BTC and XCP.

    If XCP used a more welcoming and suitable, less hostile blockchain, I'd pull that trigger so hard the truck would back itself up!  And I hate mixed metaphors.

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    Monero
    "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
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  • led_lcd
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    September 03, 2014, 04:10:31 AM
     #9074
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 03, 2014, 03:54:49 AM
    If XCP used a more welcoming and suitable, less hostile blockchain, I'd pull that trigger so hard the truck would back itself up!  And I hate mixed metaphors.

    I think it's a good thing that XCP is on Bitcoin, even if the blockchain may be somewhat hostile. In ViaCoin, there is a conflict of responsibility because the developers both maintain the blockchain and the the meta layer. The conflict of responsibility arises in that the blockchain developers must maintain as a priority the security of the blockchain. So in this sense of BTC vs XCP, it's healthy.

    IMO when assessing a metacoin, people should assess the liquidity of the underlying blockchain as an indicator of potential success of the metacoin. The inflows into the metacoin will come almost exclusively via the blockchain it rides on. There isn't much point having a technological marvel which is in an isolated island.

    In terms of technical features, it's great that Peter Todd has the funding to work on tree chains. If it proves to work well in ViaCoin, there is no reason why it won't be integrated into Bitcoin core.

  • iCEBREAKER
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    September 03, 2014, 04:16:20 AM
     #9075
    Quote from: led_lcd on September 03, 2014, 04:10:31 AM
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 03, 2014, 03:54:49 AM
    If XCP used a more welcoming and suitable, less hostile blockchain, I'd pull that trigger so hard the truck would back itself up!  And I hate mixed metaphors.

    I think it's a good thing that XCP is on Bitcoin, even if the blockchain may be somewhat hostile. In ViaCoin, there is a conflict of responsibility because the developers both maintain the blockchain and the the meta layer. The conflict of responsibility arises in that the blockchain developers must maintain as a priority the security of the blockchain. So in this sense of BTC vs XCP, it's healthy.

    IMO when assessing a metacoin, people should assess the liquidity of the underlying blockchain as an indicator of potential success of the metacoin. The inflows into the metacoin will come almost exclusively via the blockchain it rides on. There isn't much point having a technological marvel which is in an isolated island.

    In terms of technical features, it's great that Peter Todd has the funding to work on tree chains. If it proves to work well in ViaCoin, there is no reason why it won't be integrated into Bitcoin core.

    Thank you for writing a very informative post with many great points of clarification!

    +tipbot 9000   Smiley

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    Monero
    "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
    whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy."      David Chaum 1996
    "Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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    P2P Exchange Network
    Buy XMR with fiat
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  • romerun
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    September 03, 2014, 05:21:12 AM
     #9076
    Sidechaining could help counterparty when tx fee is floated or getting too high for small tx.

    btw masterxchange just quietly added Counterparty

    https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=xcp

    Looks like mastercoin volume has died down

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    September 03, 2014, 08:36:51 AM
    Merited by nutildah (4)
     #9077
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 10:24:30 AM
    I proposed a block hash lottery on github, where few would win a lot. I think this would take advantage of the true potential of XCP escrow.
    +1
    I believe this can be a killer app for CP.
    If N players can escrow funds in the same pot, and N is a large number, and one player wins the entire jackpot - then CP offers a very good lottery. 100% is paid back to the players (i.e. all to the winner) and the game is 100% transparent.

    Quote from: Matt Y on September 02, 2014, 11:16:50 PM
    Happy to announce that BetXCP has an automatic BTC -> XCP Vendding machine, courtesy of the guys over at Vennd. Thanks Jeremy and Jonathan!

    Vennding machine: http://betxcp.com/vennd

    New BetXCP thread: https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/767510.0
    Happy to use it. Works as described:)
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  • deliciousowl
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    September 03, 2014, 12:37:43 PM
     #9078
    12 Myths about CounterpartyXCP


    Myth 1: Counterparty is just Bitcoin 2.0 marketing hype.

    Myth 2: Counterparty’s internal currency, XCP, is just another alt-coin.

    Myth 3: Counterparty is just another project where the developers want to get rich quick. They will just run away with the money.

    Myth 4: Counterparty development is dead and nothing works yet.

    Myth 5: Counterwallet stores your passphrase and private keys on their servers!

    Myth 7: If Bitcoin can be used in Counterparty, then XCP doesn’t have value.

    Myth 8: I want to create a poll on the Blockchain, but Counterparty doesn’t have a voting feature.

    Myth 9: You can’t store XCP or assets in cold storage. There is no 2FA!

    Myth 10: Counterparty is polluting the Bitcoin blockchain with useless data and weighing down the network. This is a “free ride” on top of Satoshis hard work!

    Myth 11: Counterparty is missing multi-sig support.

    Myth 12: Broadcast feed betting is centralized.

  • devphp
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    September 03, 2014, 01:28:05 PM
     #9079
    Can Bitcoin developers kill Counterparty by changing the protocol? Theoretically? I like Counterparty, but a bit concerned on this issue.

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    September 03, 2014, 01:36:35 PM
     #9080
    Quote from: devphp on September 03, 2014, 01:28:05 PM
    Can Bitcoin developers kill Counterparty by changing the protocol? Theoretically? I like Counterparty, but a bit concerned on this issue.

    No they can't. See my previous post for more info.

    Also confirmed by XCP founder PhantomPhreak:

    Quote from: PhantomPhreak on September 01, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
    Quote from: deliciousowl on September 01, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
    That is FUD. There are many ways to store Counterparty data in the blockchain. It's not leaving any time soon, no worries. Everything is stored in the blockchain, and cannot be changed or manipulated without manipulating the blockchain itself.


    That's right. It's pretty much impossible to prevent Counterparty from using Bitcoin, because of the many ways in which Counterparty can store data in the blockchain.
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