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    • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
     #201
    Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 03:39:48 PM
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
    Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

    This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC's workings, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

    What does source code do ? If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source? It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

    99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

    So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready. Smiley
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  • michaelmclees
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    October 11, 2011, 03:52:52 PM
     #202
    The thing is, when someone makes a claim that Bitcoin is secure, it is believable because we know that people, you included, are able to see the source code and make sense of it, even if we can't.

    With SC2, no one is even able to make that claim, let alone verify it.

  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 03:53:24 PM
     #203
    Quote from: ThiagoCMC on October 11, 2011, 03:19:06 PM
    Sorry but, no centralization can be good. Look around you man!!!

    Look around me? Sure I look around me and see how centralization helps in some ways and hinders in many other ways.

    If you're of the belief that ANY centralization at all is bad/evil/etc then we'll have to disagree. I know there are people out there with strong values on such things and there is no amount of arguing one way or the other that way change the mindset. It's good we live in a world where you can have something to support like BTC which has your values whilst others can support something else.
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  • johnj
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    October 11, 2011, 03:54:48 PM
     #204
    Quote from: btc-e.com on October 11, 2011, 03:54:02 PM
    Start trading SolidCoin 2

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    Spamming your exchange makes me want to use it less.
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  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 03:55:17 PM
     #205
    Quote from: michaelmclees on October 11, 2011, 03:52:52 PM
    The thing is, when someone makes a claim that Bitcoin is secure, it is believable because we know that people, you included, are able to see the source code and make sense of it, even if we can't.

    With SC2, no one is even able to make that claim, let alone verify it.

    That's not entirely true, good programmers also understand ASM and can reverse engineer from that. Might make it a little harder than having source but it's possible. Look at Microsoft for instance and their vulns.

    If you think Bitcoin is secure you haven't read or understood the source code. I think you'll even find gavin say he's not sure on things like this.
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  • ThiagoCMC
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    October 11, 2011, 03:56:15 PM
     #206
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 03:39:48 PM
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
    Seriously, are you that brain dead? It is 5% of SC minted. If you think I'm the type of person to defraud thousands of people whilst I have assets and a family then it shows you don't know me and are making stupid decisions. Coupled with your inability to tell 10% from 5% it completes the puzzle doesn't it?

    This would all be a lot simpler if you released code, you know. Can you blame us for our ignorance of SC's workings, when the only information we have is that which you have given us?

    What does source code do ? If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source? It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

    99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

    So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready. Smiley

    fast transactions, secure networking, blah blah... Can be done without any kind of centralization... Please... What are your intentions!!! Tell us the truth, RELEASE THE CODE!!

  • BitterTea
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    October 11, 2011, 03:57:31 PM
     #207
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    What does source code do ?

    You realize that almost everything we know about the functioning of Bitcoin comes from the source code, right?

    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    If you could understand all I've written why haven't you written it? Why have I discovered many vulnerabilities in Bitcoin over my course of refactoring the source?

    If you could understand Bitcoin so well, why did you not write it? *facepalm*

    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    It proves beyond a doubt that people do not read the source code, or at least, do not understand it, and the Bitcoin code has been out there for a while. In the end if you're not an advanced programmer you'll be relying on experts to "break it down" for you, right?

    I am a programmer. Maybe not advanced enough to write Bitcoin, but enough to get a general idea of what it's doing.

    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    99% of End users couldn't care less about how SolidCoin or Bitcoin works. They want simple things. Things like fast transactions, secure networking, easy to use developer environments and many even want a small central organization to help protect the more vulnerable members in the community. I spent 3 hours today waiting for 3 confirmations in bitcoin. 3 hours.

    "Blah blah blah, my target audience is the ignorant, blah blah blah"

    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 03:49:14 PM
    So whilst I understand some will never be happy unless there is "source" I also understand 99% of people couldn't care less. All this said source will be released when ready. Smiley

    How can the code not be ready if it's running a production system? That doesn't inspire confidence.

  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
     #208
    Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 03:57:31 PM
    How can the code not be ready if it's running a production system? That doesn't inspire confidence.

    I see you live in lala open source world where everyone is writing source for the utopia project. In case you're unaware there are many trolls abound with no skills who like to copy things. It's mainly to annoy them so they can't start their little "I have 51% protected chain tooo like SolidCoiiiiiiin" before we've established SC as the only chain with said security features. That is what I mean by "Ready".

    The thousands of people who have downloaded the client didn't need source to run it. How many wouldn't run it unless it had source? 5? 10? 100? Not very many is it. I'm not like most people who contribute in the open source industry, my background is closed source, high end applications which were and still are run by hundreds of thousands of people around the world. I'm more of a realist I guess you can say and look at ways to maximize user acceptance more than elitist open source developers.
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  • johnj
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    October 11, 2011, 04:12:36 PM
     #209
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
    Quote from: BitterTea on October 11, 2011, 03:57:31 PM
    How can the code not be ready if it's running a production system? That doesn't inspire confidence.

    I see you live in lala open source world where everyone is writing source for the utopia project. In case you're unaware there are many trolls abound with no skills who like to copy things. It's mainly to annoy them so they can't start their little "I have 51% protected chain tooo like SolidCoiiiiiiin" before we've established SC as the only chain with said security features. That is what I mean by "Ready".

    Wait,

    So you copy most of the Bitcoin code to gain your own SC audience

    And refuse to release your code, to prevent others from doing the same.

    You're right about one thing though,

    Quote

    In case you're unaware there are many trolls abound with no skills who like to copy things.
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  • MaGNeT
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    October 11, 2011, 04:13:59 PM
     #210
    Quote from: btc-e.com on October 11, 2011, 03:54:02 PM
    Start trading SolidCoin 2

    https://btc-e.com/sc_exchanger SC BTC

    https://btc-e.com/sc_usd_exchanger SC USD

    I like your exchange and I use it for some coins.

    But you can't expect people to buy coins while one person has mined 10,000 US$ worth of coins (250k SC) in 24 hours.
    I don't think people like to trade a coin from a chain that will be restarted sooner or later.

    This chain is dead, I advice not to buy/sell until the restart... Hmm, maybe better to stop this nonsense completely...

    SC2 will never be safe without programmers who know what they do (people like ArtForz).
    Source is not open, we can't even tell what more unknown vulnerabilities are in this client network chain.

    And as long as the creator has a button to stop this all, I wouldn't invest a single 0.01$ in it.
    You can loose it all...

    If CuntHunter really wants to save this coin, he releases the sourcecode and let some pro's fix it for him.

  • Bobnova
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    October 11, 2011, 04:18:56 PM
     #211
    So CoinHunter, what are the requirements to become a trusted node?
    BTC:  1AURXf66t7pw65NwRiKukwPq1hLSiYLqbP

  • WiseOldOwl
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    October 11, 2011, 04:19:11 PM
     #212
    My 2 cents.
    CH can do whatever he wants, and so can you.
    Why do people care if he does one thing or another? All that should do is maybe change your decision to get involved or not.

  • Matoking
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    October 11, 2011, 04:20:35 PM
     #213
    This has to be one of the funniest events I've had the chance to observe. I wish I had bought some popcorn.
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  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
     #214
    Quote from: johnj on October 11, 2011, 04:12:36 PM
    So you copy most of the Bitcoin code to gain your own SC audience

    And refuse to release your code, to prevent others from doing the same.

    You're right about one thing though,

    In case you're unaware this is exactly what Satoshi wanted. People to be able to take his Bitcoin source and make something like SolidCoin. That is why he put it under the license he did. So you're in denial if you don't realize this is exactly what he wanted going forward and why he dropped out of his project.

    Just because Bitcoin was built like it was doesn't mean SolidCoin has to be. GPL is the license you are 'thinking' of and Satoshi had every opportunity to put it under that, I'm sure many pressured him too, but he didn't, and for good reason. Bitcoin isn't good enough, he knew it, everyone else is starting to realize it (BTC price) and at this stage SolidCoin is leading the pack of cryptocurrencies when it comes to features and security.

    You may not want to believe it for various reasons, but deep down you probably know it.
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  • johnj
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    October 11, 2011, 04:29:16 PM
     #215
    Quote from: WiseOldOwl on October 11, 2011, 04:19:11 PM
    My 2 cents.
    CH can do whatever he wants, and so can you.
    Why do people care if he does one thing or another? All that should do is maybe change your decision to get involved or not.

    If one makes claims about their alt-chain, they're going to be asked to substantiate his claims.  If they cant/refuses, that's a red-flag that other potential users should be informed of.

    It is no suprise that many people on these forums will persist until all the evidence comes to light.  What you're asking "Why do you care what he does" could also be applied to the Marketplace forums:  "Why care if someone is a scammer? Why go through all that fuss to let others know? All that should do is maybe change your decision to get involved or not."

    While I wouldn't call CH a scammer in the traditional sense, he is advocating people spend their resources (time/electricity) mining his chain (of which he gets a direct 5%) by making grand, as-of-yet unsubstantiated claims.  I would hope this forum never loses an aggressive pursuit of full-disclosure.
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  • ThiagoCMC
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    October 11, 2011, 04:29:25 PM
     #216
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
    Quote from: johnj on October 11, 2011, 04:12:36 PM
    So you copy most of the Bitcoin code to gain your own SC audience

    And refuse to release your code, to prevent others from doing the same.

    You're right about one thing though,

    In case you're unaware this is exactly what Satoshi wanted. People to be able to take his Bitcoin source and make something like SolidCoin. That is why he put it under the license he did. So you're in denial if you don't realize this is exactly what he wanted going forward and why he dropped out of his project.

    Just because Bitcoin was built like it was doesn't mean SolidCoin has to be. GPL is the license you are 'thinking' of and Satoshi had every opportunity to put it under that, I'm sure many pressured him too, but he didn't, and for good reason. Bitcoin isn't good enough, he knew it, everyone else is starting to realize it (BTC price) and at this stage SolidCoin is leading the pack of cryptocurrencies when it comes to features and security.

    You may not want to believe it for various reasons, but deep down you probably know it.

    So, if Solidcoin is based on Bitcoin code, WHY YOU BLAME SO HARD BITCOIN IN FIRST PLACE?!?!?

    Even when Bitcoin is running really fine...??

  • sd
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    October 11, 2011, 04:29:56 PM
     #217
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
    ...my background is closed source, high end applications which were and still are run by hundreds of thousands of people around the world...

    Most likely you are an OK programmer as part of a team, but you have to be fed tasks by a project lead to get anything worthwhile done.

    It doesn't take the same mindset or aptitude to be a good designer. Few people can do both, you are not one of them. Designing a new BitCoin isn't going to be something you are good at, it's not something most people would be good at either so don't feel too bad. Give up and do something more worthwhile as SolidCoin just isn't going to work.

    Go spend some time with your friends or family and give up on this nonsense.

  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 04:34:07 PM
     #218
    Quote from: ThiagoCMC on October 11, 2011, 04:29:25 PM
    So, if Solidcoin is based on Bitcoin code, WHY YOU BLAME SO HARD BITCOIN IN FIRST PLACE?!?!?

    Even when Bitcoin is running really fine...??

    I really like the Bitcoin idea, don't get me wrong. When I first heard about it I was excited. It was only when I started to develop sites using it, then read the source code that i realized I could never do anything serious with it. After talking to some BTC people and having all my suggestions thrown out I realized there was only one way to realize that goal. And here we are.
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  • CoinHunter
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    October 11, 2011, 04:36:06 PM
     #219
    Quote from: sd on October 11, 2011, 04:29:56 PM
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
    ...my background is closed source, high end applications which were and still are run by hundreds of thousands of people around the world...

    Most likely you are an OK programmer as part of a team, but you have to be fed tasks by a project lead to get anything worthwhile done.

    It doesn't take the same mindset or aptitude to be a good designer. Few people can do both, you are not one of them. Designing a new BitCoin isn't going to be something you are good at, it's not something most people would be good at either so don't feel too bad. Give up and do something more worthwhile as SolidCoin just isn't going to work.

    Go spend some time with your friends or family and give up on this nonsense.


    If you are serious what are you basing this on? SC2.0 is the leader of the pack now, and the gap will only get wider.
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  • johnj
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    October 11, 2011, 04:37:34 PM
     #220
    Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
    Quote from: johnj on October 11, 2011, 04:12:36 PM
    So you copy most of the Bitcoin code to gain your own SC audience

    And refuse to release your code, to prevent others from doing the same.

    You're right about one thing though,

    ...this is exactly what Satoshi wanted... why he put it under the license he did... what he wanted ..why he dropped out...

    ...but he didn't, and for good reason ... he knew it


    Wow, you know a whole lot about what Satoshi was thinking.  Infact you seem infatuated with gaining his endorsement somehow.  In case your unaware, no amount of propaganda on your part will turn your idea of an alt-chain into a success.  Beside any technical details, you're too polarizing of an individual to gather majority acceptance. And remember, that's beside the technical details. Deep down you probably know that SC 2.0 is fubar and your last-ditch effort is to spin it as "working as intended... it's not a bug, it's a feature".
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