>> (p.1)
    Author Topic: Not another "Bitcoin needs your help"  (Read 2426 times)

    • Andrew Vorobyov (OP)
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    October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
     #1
    TL;DR I pledge to donate $100 every month to Bitcoin foundation.

    I love Bitcoin… I had a goose bumps when read its description… I foresee this technology to lead us into the new type of world. Where everything is global… no borders… true freedom. And I’m sure that I am not the only one feeling like this. Read what Plato wrote recently - http://codepad.org/k0gRMK5W

    I thought that everybody in the world will embrace this technology overnight… I still don’t understand how people can pass by and don’t spot this diamond lying on the ground... More of it, I am so pissed off about all these venture funding assholes who pour billions of dollars into stupid startups but pass by Bitcoin like it’s some leper on the street… I’m so angry that instead supporting it some dumb asses even criticizing it…  I did not pay attention at Bitcoin at Jan 2011 when I was scanning my RSS because some idiot reporter told that it’s some stupid payment system “where you need to wait 10 minutes for you payment to go through”, just did not click the link.

    I donated 20 BTC during my first day at forum to anyone who was writing interesting stuff about Bitcoin. I bought them at $1 BTC/USD through Paypal (old good days). Then I decided to create my satellite project (https://github.com/santacruz123/justbitcoin/wiki). I had big plans for it - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/215267/justbitcoin.jpg. Realized that it’s useless since it will be centralized and closed at some point by failing to play by the rules. After I was really into ripple pay idea. I thought it will spread usage of Bitcoin like a fire… After some time I figured out that this will not work because nobody will like this hassles with being in debt or taking debt back from his friends…

    Each of us must do his part of the work for Bitcoin to succeed – use it here and there, let other people know about it, some people have money to buy shit loads of Bitcoins on the MtGOX casually supporting miners, shorting them on Bitcoinica to make Bitcoin cheaper so everybody can buy at $1 again, do various projects to grow Bitcoin economy and of course perfect the Bitcoin core.

    People like Satoshi Nakamoto, FellowTraveler, Gavin Andresen, Ryan Fugger, Jeff Garzik did select to invest their free time to support their projects… instead of spending more time with family or getting kick ass corporate job and earn $100K+ salaries.

    Why? They don’t do it for themselves… I think they do it for community. Community is more important for them than personal interests. “We” greater than “I”.  It’s the main problem nowadays – everybody wants to score by himself. Communities does not give a flying fuck about people who care about them most. “United we stand divided we fall” is always forgotten.

    We must unite if we want Bitcoin to succeed… Bitcoin is viable if people believe in it. If we will unite we all win and will be living in the new world. Otherwise it will be over pretty soon… lack of trust and Bitcoin will be “just another cool technology that did not get traction”.

    I don’t ask you you to keep buying BTC and shouting if it will touch $1 BTC/USD we all gonna die…

    But it is shit to see when people do debates if it is nice move by Gavin to open private ventures or not…  “Oh my God, he needs money… how he can possibly do it, what a shame, most amoral deed I’ve ever seen”. It’s shit to see when Gavin is telling that “many things would be much easier if there was a non-profit organization like the Tor Project to pay core  developers, testers, a PR person, pay for the Jenkins nightly build server, etc etc etc” and nobody pays any attention…

    Unfortunately, nobody gives a fuck about us and we are alone – all these linux foundations just shred their shoulder and do not recognize us as a part of open source movement… Even https://www.eff.org nicely told us to get away because we are “embarrassing” their donators with our crypto currency…

    We, early adopters, should take care of core development team, like parents take care of their children.

    I pledge to donate $100 every month to Bitcoin foundation.

  • ptshamrock
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    October 19, 2011, 04:47:31 PM
     #2
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
    TL;DR I pledge to donate $100 every month to Bitcoin foundation.

    I love Bitcoin… I had a goose bumps when read its description… I foresee this technology to lead us into the new type of world. Where everything is global… no borders… true freedom. And I’m sure that I am not the only one feeling like this.

    I thought that everybody in the world will embrace this technology overnight… I still don’t understand how people can pass by and don’t spot this diamond lying on the ground... More of it, I am so pissed off about all these venture funding assholes who pour billions of dollars into stupid startups but pass by Bitcoin like it’s some leper on the street…

    I donated 20 BTC during my first day at forum to anyone who was writing interesting stuff about Bitcoin

    Each of us must do his part of the work for Bitcoin to succeed

    People like Satoshi Nakamoto, FellowTraveler, Gavin Andresen, Ryan Fugger, Jeff Garzik did select to invest their free time to support their projects… instead of spending more time with family or getting kick ass corporate job and earn $100K+ salaries.

     “United we stand divided we fall” is always forgotten.



    But it is shit to see when people do debates if it is nice move by Gavin to open private ventures or not…  “Oh my God, he needs money… how he can possibly do it, what a shame, most amoral deed I’ve ever seen”. It’s shit to see when Gavin is telling that “many things would be much easier if there was a non-profit organization like the Tor Project to pay core  developers, testers, a PR person, pay for the Jenkins nightly build server, etc etc etc” and nobody pays any attention…



    We, early adopters, should take care of core development team, like parents take care of their children.

    I pledge to donate $100 every month to Bitcoin foundation.

    +99

    thank u sir...

    I Pledge the equivalent of 50€ a month for this project !

    can someone setup an little oldschool site with an donation adress..an donatometer..and an overview ?

    I can offer webspace and domain if needed..(will substract that from my pledge Smiley

    just let the names of alle those appear that pledged (real or not)..doesnt matter..

    sometime in my  life i can lookup the list and see that there were men & women who....just  understood..and saw the light ..
    "Money needs to be depoliticized, and the time has come for the separation of money and state to be accomplished."

  • becoin
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    October 19, 2011, 06:03:27 PM
     #3
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
    It’s the main problem nowadays – everybody wants to score by himself.
    Unfortunately, this is true. My sympathy is all with what you said, Andrew. I can perfectly understand you.

    I have personally tried couple of times to organize some developers in teams but miserably failed. Once they understand the scope and essentials of the project everyone of them thought they can do it alone and score by themselves. However, I'm not so stupid to tell them every bit of detail. So, sooner or later they fail but I'm stuck too. The truth is all we are greedy selfish bastards.

    A non for profit bitcoin foundation is a must. I personally see it as a second generation non for profit foundation, say, like the Apache Software Foundation.

  • FlipPro
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    October 19, 2011, 06:06:02 PM
     #4
    This system has fundamental problems that so many people in this community fail to realize time and time again. Even if it DOES go up again do any of you guys think this is a sustainable economic system for the long run? (serious question)

  • edd
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    October 19, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
     #5
    Quote from: becoin on October 19, 2011, 06:03:27 PM
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
    It’s the main problem nowadays – everybody wants to score by himself.
    Unfortunately, this is true. My sympathy is all with what you said, Andrew. I can perfectly understand you.

    I have personally tried couple of times to organize some developers in teams but miserably failed. Once they understand the scope and essentials of the project everyone of them thought they can do it alone and score by themselves. However, I'm not so stupid to tell them every bit of detail. So, sooner or later they fail but I'm stuck too. The truth is all we are greedy selfish bastards.

    A non for profit bitcoin foundation is a must. I personally see it as a second generation non for profit foundation, say, like the Apache Software Foundation.

    At the risk of sounding like some of our, shall we say, "outspoken" community members, I don't necessarily believe looking for a profitable way of supporting and promoting bitcoin use makes me a greedy selfish bastard. (I am one, but that's beside the point.  Wink )

    Attracting and guiding a talented group of individuals toward a specific, unifying goal requires a clear, well-defined vision and a passionate, well respected leader. It's a lot harder than it looks.
    Still around.

  • becoin
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    October 19, 2011, 06:36:33 PM
     #6
    Quote from: FlipPro on October 19, 2011, 06:06:02 PM
    Even if it DOES go up again do any of you guys think this is a sustainable economic system for the long run? (serious question)
    You are right. Bitcoin currently is not a sustainable payment system. Technically it has many flaws but still can serve as a clearing currency. It can not, however, serve every transaction. It would be too expensive. Not suitable for a payment system as it misses a fundamental cornerstone for every economic system - the TRUST. In every economy there should be an element of trust. In every business relation there should be an element of trust. Operating on the "trust no one" basis is simply too expensive and is not sustainable. You have to somehow combine "trust no one" and "trust absolutely up to a predefined limit"... Why is that? I have partially explained it here - https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/28565.msg470117#msg470117

  • evoorhees
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    October 19, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
     #7
    Quote from: becoin on October 19, 2011, 06:36:33 PM
    Quote from: FlipPro on October 19, 2011, 06:06:02 PM
    Even if it DOES go up again do any of you guys think this is a sustainable economic system for the long run? (serious question)
    You are right. Bitcoin currently is not a sustainable payment system. Technically it has many flaws

    What are you talking about?  Bitcoin works beautifully. The core client software is a drag with the block downloads, etc., but normal common users shouldn't be messing with that anyway. With an instawallet account and some btc, the payment system works better than anything else on earth. I just got paid from a guy in Australia. Zero fees. Zero problems. Instant transfer.

    Bitcoin has problems of adoption, reputation, and trust... but as a technical system it is remarkable, smooth, and elegant.

  • becoin
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    October 19, 2011, 06:57:44 PM
     #8
    Quote from: edd on October 19, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
    Attracting and guiding a talented group of individuals toward a specific, unifying goal requires a clear, well-defined vision and a passionate, well respected leader. It's a lot harder than it looks.
    I know what it requires as I have plenty of experience in leading project teams in bank IT departments. It looks though many brilliant people writing here have lost their ability to be team players? They do really trust no one... I can't blame them. The stake here is gigantic.

  • Andrew Vorobyov (OP)
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    October 19, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
     #9
    Quote from: edd on October 19, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
    Attracting and guiding a talented group of individuals toward a specific, unifying goal requires a clear, well-defined vision and a passionate, well respected leader. It's a lot harder than it looks.

    If you do realize that you have responsibility to take actions, you don't have to wait for someone... but it's true that you need to see people around you doing the same so you don't feel alone...

    Personal example, it's only thing that works...

  • evoorhees
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    Democracy is the original 51% attack


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    October 19, 2011, 07:00:17 PM
     #10
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM

    I love Bitcoin… I had a goose bumps when read its description… I foresee this technology to lead us into the new type of world. Where everything is global… no borders… true freedom. And I’m sure that I am not the only one feeling like this.

    You're not the only one =)  I'm not going anywhere. The spot price isn't much of a concern for me, though it always sucks to have my bitcoinica margin liquidated  Wink

  • becoin
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    October 19, 2011, 07:04:05 PM
     #11
    Quote from: evoorhees on October 19, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
    With an instawallet account and some btc
    But wasn't bitcoin created to avoid maintaining accounts with a third party? If I have to have such an account I'd prefer to have such account with my bank as it is regulated and controlled by a central bank!

  • edd
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    October 19, 2011, 07:05:55 PM
     #12
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
    Quote from: edd on October 19, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
    Attracting and guiding a talented group of individuals toward a specific, unifying goal requires a clear, well-defined vision and a passionate, well respected leader. It's a lot harder than it looks.

    If you do realize that you have responsibility to take actions, you don't have to wait for someone... but it's true that you need to see people around you doing the same so you don't feel alone...

    Personal example, it's only thing that works...

    I am taking actions, I just didn't want to hijack your thread.  Smiley  "Unofficial BTC: Making Bitcoins Profitable Again"
    Still around.

  • edd
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    October 19, 2011, 07:07:41 PM
     #13
    Quote from: becoin on October 19, 2011, 07:04:05 PM
    Quote from: evoorhees on October 19, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
    With an instawallet account and some btc
    But wasn't bitcoin created to avoid maintaining accounts with a third party? If I have to have such an account I'd prefer to have such account with my bank as it is regulated and controlled by a central bank!

    I sell coffee for bitcoins everyday with an international sale at least once a week without using a third party.
    Still around.

  • Andrew Vorobyov (OP)
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    October 19, 2011, 07:13:11 PM
     #14
    Quote from: edd on October 19, 2011, 07:05:55 PM
    I am taking actions, I just didn't want to hijack your thread.  Smiley  "Unofficial BTC: Making Bitcoins Profitable Again"

    You doing it well and I wish you success.  My concern is that we are not actively helping "founding fathers" here... and everybody doing their projects ONLY...

  • ptshamrock
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    October 19, 2011, 07:21:52 PM
     #15
    Quote from: evoorhees on October 19, 2011, 07:00:17 PM
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM

    I love Bitcoin… I had a goose bumps when read its description… I foresee this technology to lead us into the new type of world. Where everything is global… no borders… true freedom. And I’m sure that I am not the only one feeling like this.

    You're not the only one =)  I'm not going anywhere. The spot price isn't much of a concern for me, though it always sucks to have my bitcoinica margin liquidated  Wink

    haha same probs here with bitcoinica ^^  throwing more in it everyday no matter what lol
    "Money needs to be depoliticized, and the time has come for the separation of money and state to be accomplished."

  • Cryptoman
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    October 19, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
     #16
    Andrew, great post.  You mentioned Fellow Traveler, and I would encourage everyone, regardless of whether or not you think Bitcoin is ready for prime time, to take a close look at his Open Transactions project (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions).  This is the future of peer-to-peer electronic commerce, in my view.  There are a lot of pieces, like basket currencies and OT server pools, than can help overcome some of the limitations of Bitcoin.  I've supported Fellow Traveler in the past and will do so again in the future.  His Bitcoin address is in the LICENSE-AND-CREDITS.txt file, or contact him for other ways to contribute.
    "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi

  • BitcoinPorn
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    October 19, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
     #17
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
    Read what Plato wrote recently - http://codepad.org/k0gRMK5W

    I posted that here on the forums and no one replied Sad   But the thread had a shitload of views so I hope enough people found something interesting with what he wrote.
    Decentralized Design

  • ptshamrock
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    October 19, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
     #18
    Quote from: Cryptoman on October 19, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
    Andrew, great post.  You mentioned Fellow Traveler, and I would encourage everyone, regardless of whether or not you think Bitcoin is ready for prime time, to take a close look at his Open Transactions project (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions).  This is the future of peer-to-peer electronic commerce, in my view.  There are a lot of pieces, like basket currencies and OT server pools, than can help overcome some of the limitations of Bitcoin.  I've supported Fellow Traveler in the past and will do so again in the future.  His Bitcoin address is in the LICENSE-AND-CREDITS.txt file, or contact him for other ways to contribute.

    i have often looked at OT and really like but honestly could never really understand how it works..care to gimme some lessons about it ?
    the OT thread was not very helpful...or can u sum up ina  few sentences what OT can acomplish ? especially in conjunktion with btc?

    i would even pay u for it ^^  but I can sense this is something really great ! Cheesy
    "Money needs to be depoliticized, and the time has come for the separation of money and state to be accomplished."

  • ptshamrock
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    October 19, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
     #19
    Quote from: BitcoinPorn on October 19, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
    Quote from: Andrew Vorobyov on October 19, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
    Read what Plato wrote recently - http://codepad.org/k0gRMK5W

    I posted that here on the forums and no one replied Sad   But the thread had a shitload of views so I hope enough people found something interesting with what he wrote.

    I loved it !
    "Money needs to be depoliticized, and the time has come for the separation of money and state to be accomplished."

  • Cryptoman
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    October 19, 2011, 08:01:40 PM
     #20
    Quote from: ptshamrock on October 19, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
    i have often looked at OT and really like but honestly could never really understand how it works..care to gimme some lessons about it ?
    the OT thread was not very helpful...or can u sum up ina  few sentences what OT can acomplish ? especially in conjunktion with btc?

    i would even pay u for it ^^  but I can sense this is something really great ! Cheesy

    I'm at work right now, so I don't have a lot of time to describe it in detail.  However, I would encourage you to listen to Fellow Traveler's Agorist radio interviews as they are what helped the concepts sink in for me:

    Part 1: http://agoristradio.com/?p=234
    Part 2: http://agoristradio.com/?p=246

    There is also a video walk-through of the Moneychanger gui:

    Part 1: http://vimeo.com/28141679
    Part 2: http://vimeo.com/28142096

    OT helps Bitcoin by allowing basket currencies to be issued with Bitcoin backing, which can minimize the exchange rate risk if set up properly.  Also, an OT wallet would have to be compromised on the majority of servers, not just one, unlike Bitcoin.  However, the Bitcoin block chain is still very useful to OT by providing a decentralized, proof-of-work value system with which to underwrite other currencies.
    "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
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