On that principle all the money is essentially "zero value". Crypto, old school dollars whatever.

None of it is real because it is based on nothing of substance. Gold is locked away in the US vaults never to come out and is not big enough to back everyone's money. The Britsh Pound? Equated to one pound of gold once.

Now if you ask for your gold back from The USA you get invaded and deposed ... Gradafi, Sadam etc.

So, just because Bitcoin is a bit flimsy? It matter not.

As long as people honour it's value through services good etc ... Who cares?

Now, if they stop hooping it? That is a different story.

Well, you have just demonstrated that it is you whose understanding of the global economy and global banking system is poor.

First, FED doesn't create money. FED creates paper proof or certificate of money. Banks on the other hand create digital proof or certificate of money. So neither the FED nor the banks create money. Money is essentially created by borrowers, i.e. without the borrowers there would be no money, except commodity money - whose value comes from a commodity of which it is made.

In other words, when a bank creates numbers out of thin air by giving someone a loan, the bank didn't create money, but worthless symbols. Only when the borrower takes liability to return the loan and when this liability is secured by some form of collateral, only then "numbers" are put into circulation and only then money (fiat money) is created.
When FED (FOMC) buys government securities then the government is the borrower that takes "liability to return the loan". And this loan is secured by taxing power of the government.

Now, does that look like bitcoin to you?

Second, supply is a concept that describes the total amount of a specific good or service that is available to consumers, while demand is a consumer's desire and willingness to pay a price for a specific good or service. In other words, the supply and demand for a good vary, while value of a good is stable irrespective of these two concepts. For e.g. usability and other properties of iPhone won't change if you are not willing to buy it. Thus, value is something that is inherent to a thing and what doesn't change with supply and demand. Price is what changes in that regard.  

You are the poorly educated one. Instead of admitting, that Your initial logic was faulted, You keep digging Yourself deeper in, with even more broken logic. I wonder, how much more of it can You produce...

Just to use Your own words: if value is "a things ability to provide some utility." its is subjective already by Your own definition. Pair of classes wear good value for shortsighted, I dont give a shite. They are not valuable for me. Insulin pump has lifesaving value for diabetic, no value at all to me.

And Your own engine/value sample: some people value more powerful engines, some economic. Even this ability is not valued identically between individuals. How can You be, to not understand that??

Don't hurt your mind to much thinking about it. What is really amusing to me is that even though elitist like you have wasted a lot of their life learning facts in higher education they still need poorly educated people like me to school you on what value is.

If "the value of a thing is it's ability to provide some utility" and value is not subjective please tell me what makes a painting or artwork valuable. Why is some art worth nothing and some paintings are worth a million dollars?

Do you really think everyone on this planet values their heart exactly the same even as a utility? There are people on this earth that have some serious problems and are in traumatic consent pain they can only pray and hope that their heart gives out so they may die because that's what they want.

Is an engines sole purpose to convert energy into mechanical energy? Are there not old steam, airplane, and motorcycle engines in museums on display strictly for their design and aesthetic features? Value is always a utility? Is everyone's time worth exactly the same? Is everyone's love and friendship the same?

I don't think the question here is does the heart pump blood or an engine make mechanical power. Of corse it does. Are these things utilities, yes and they are also other things besides utilities. What I am saying here is the value of those things are different to different people and value is subjective not objective. An elitist such as yourself tries to tell people what the value of something is. The truth is you have no say in what is valuable to me or in my life and vice versa.

Values of things are subjective and do not have set prices in which they are worth the same all the time. Even circumstance can make the same item two different prices to the same person.

Bitcoin is worth zero? I'm sorry but this thing you say is worth nothing can buy my airplane ticket to travel across the country so to me it has some value. What you are saying just isn't good enough.

Things need to be utilities for them to have value? Honestly I don't even believe you believe that. I think you are just trying to talk yourself into your weird way of thinking. I'm glad you spent a lot of your time and money going to higher education to learn how to make a simple chart to explain to others the way you think is better then the way they think. I'm happy for you. You have the world figured out. But in all honesty I don't think anyone here really cares and if I were you I'd go get my money back from that fancy college if that's as much critical thinking that they are teaching nowadays.

You do not seem to sure of yourself. Keep trying though, this is a strong subject for such a weak mind.

You haven't schooled me, you just repeated the same nonsense I already refuted.

Painting is valuable because it provides a perceptual experience of satisfaction or pleasure. Pleasure is a mental state that humans experience as positive, enjoyable, or worth seeking. Or put simply, pleasure is a human need, it drives us, the way hunger does or fear. That is why painting is valuable - its inherent properties are able to satisfy human needs. Now, the degree to which something is experienced as pleasurable, together with someone's wealth, determine how much someone is willing to pay for it. Thus, value is objective since it is inherent to a picture, while price is subjective since it is inherent to a person.

Inherent property of a dollar is its claim status, which can ultimately provide its holder with goods, services or property of borrowers. And it is this inherent property what makes dollar valuable.

Even a rock, due to its inherent property of hardness, is valuable  - it can be used as a weapon and save human life in some circumstances. In that case, a person might pay a million dollars for it.

But, can for e.g. a particle which comprises a rock be used to save human life? No. Can it be used to satisfy other human needs? No. That is why this particle is valueless. Simply put, its inherent properties cannot provide utility to people. The same is true for Bitcoin. It is a number, it is an abstract mathematical object, it is mere byte in a memory whose inherent properties cannot provide utility to people. That is why it is valueless.

i have a theory that all thing that in the world is have the zero values at the beginning, but we can see that the demand and the stock of that thing is not stable, sometimes the stock is low and sometimes the stock is high, it is makes the value of that things is always changes every time

Bitcoin has value, because a lot of resources must be spent (hardware, electricity and bandwidth) to mine Bitcoins. Gold and Silver are unfounded but they have value, because it’s difficult to be found and mined. The same applies to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has unique features, so people want it, and they pay for it.

So, Bitcoin HAS value. Countries tolerate Bitcoin, because they know that it has value, and it’s not a scam.

No currency has real value anymore. It’s all air. The only difference between fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies is that cryptocurrencies works faster, cheaper, is decentralized (no banks needed) and deflationary, instead of the greatest theft in the world: inflation.
Nature will always choose the path of least resistance or the most effective path. The most effective path is cryptocurrencies.

But these numbers that banks "create out of thin air" and take liabilities from people (in our case) with collateral needs to be transferred from somewhere. From its asset side - double entry bookkeeping. In other words, if a small bank which assets are 1 mil USD and 100 people want 100 mil USD loan (they want to take the liability) with a sufficient collateral, this small banks cannot provide the loans for them. They cannot create a number out of thin air and forward that number to these people that want the loan (and have a good collateral to get it), simply because it does not have the assets or funds to do that.

Does a airbnb platform have value? And I mean just the platform itself, without the company behind it, without the real estates which are on the platform. The platform itself is only bunch of numbers and other data.

Actually, I am not sure he is just trolling. He has a solid, veeeery theoretical point. Imo, we are just abstractly, in theory, talking about "value" in general and bitcoin. In practice this debate is actually quite meaningless. It is still imo interesting debate.