>> (p.1)
    Author Topic: Transaction fee?  (Read 2953 times)

    • Bitcoinbernd (OP)
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    November 12, 2011, 07:05:57 PM
     #1
    I have set up another computer and so a second wallet just to play around a little. Now on the second wallet I mined 0.05 BTC and I wanted to transfert them to my primary wallet. The clients says I need to pay a transaction fee. But I heard, that its possible to transfer BTC *without* paying a fee. How does that work?  Huh
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  • kokjo
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    November 12, 2011, 07:09:21 PM
     #2
    vanilla client, can't do it(well sometimes...).
    modify and compile your own.
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  • bulanula
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    November 12, 2011, 07:10:31 PM
     #3
    Quote from: Bitcoinbernd on November 12, 2011, 07:05:57 PM
    I have set up another computer and so a second wallet just to play around a little. Now on the second wallet I mined 0.05 BTC and I wanted to transfert them to my primary wallet. The clients says I need to pay a transaction fee. But I heard, that its possible to transfer BTC *without* paying a fee. How does that work?  Huh

    Well we need something more than the very helpful "modify and compile your own".

    I am sure somebody already build a derivative client that does not charge for TX fees.

    What about a SC client that does not give many TX fees to King RealScam ?

  • DeathAndTaxes
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    November 12, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
     #4
    Just wait.  Coins gain priority with age.  If they have sufficient priority there will be no transfer fee (some non applicable exceptions apply). 

  • Bitcoinbernd (OP)
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    November 12, 2011, 07:40:55 PM
     #5
    Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 12, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
    Just wait.  Coins gain priority with age.  If they have sufficient priority there will be no transfer fee (some non applicable exceptions apply). 

    And how long does this normaly take?
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  • sonba
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    November 14, 2011, 10:05:59 AM
     #6
    I usually had to wait around 3 days

  • Bitcoinbernd (OP)
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    November 14, 2011, 10:26:57 AM
     #7
    Quote from: sonba on November 14, 2011, 10:05:59 AM
    I usually had to wait around 3 days

    Good to know. Thank you! Smiley
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  • DeathAndTaxes
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    November 14, 2011, 01:39:12 PM
     #8
    The exact time depends on the value of each address and time.

    The formula the client uses is:

    Code:
    priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes

    If priority is >57,600 there is no transaction fee.

    Basically it works out to 1 day for 1 BTC.   Larger addresses (not total wallet value) require less time, smaller addresses require more time.

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    November 14, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
     #9
    Quote from: Bitcoinbernd on November 12, 2011, 07:05:57 PM
    I have set up another computer and so a second wallet just to play around a little. Now on the second wallet I mined 0.05 BTC and I wanted to transfert them to my primary wallet. The clients says I need to pay a transaction fee. But I heard, that its possible to transfer BTC *without* paying a fee. How does that work?  Huh

    You can always import the private key into your new wallet.
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  • btc_artist
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    November 14, 2011, 04:38:37 PM
     #10
    Quote from: Yankee on November 14, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
    Quote from: Bitcoinbernd on November 12, 2011, 07:05:57 PM
    I have set up another computer and so a second wallet just to play around a little. Now on the second wallet I mined 0.05 BTC and I wanted to transfert them to my primary wallet. The clients says I need to pay a transaction fee. But I heard, that its possible to transfer BTC *without* paying a fee. How does that work?  Huh

    You can always import the private key into your new wallet.
    Yes.  You can search for pywallet, install it and use that to import the private keys into your main wallet, instead of sending the BTC via a transaction.
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  • Bitcoinbernd (OP)
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    November 15, 2011, 09:33:51 PM
     #11
    Quote from: btc_artist on November 14, 2011, 04:38:37 PM
    Yes.  You can search for pywallet, install it and use that to import the private keys into your main wallet, instead of sending the BTC via a transaction.

    It does not work with windows, or does it?  Undecided

    Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 14, 2011, 01:39:12 PM
    The exact time depends on the value of each address and time.

    The formula the client uses is:

    Code:
    priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes

    If priority is >57,600 there is no transaction fee.

    Basically it works out to 1 day for 1 BTC.   Larger addresses (not total wallet value) require less time, smaller addresses require more time.

    Ahm, how do i calculate this?
    My client shows the number of confirmations, the date, the 0.05BTC a description. What now?  Huh
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  • Yankee (BitInstant)
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    November 15, 2011, 09:38:47 PM
     #12
    Quote from: Bitcoinbernd on November 15, 2011, 09:33:51 PM
    Quote from: btc_artist on November 14, 2011, 04:38:37 PM
    Yes.  You can search for pywallet, install it and use that to import the private keys into your main wallet, instead of sending the BTC via a transaction.

    It does not work with windows, or does it?  Undecided

    Works anywhere python is installed.
    Install python, download pywallet to a folder, run python pywallet.py in terminal
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  • Jaagu
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    November 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
     #13
    Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

    Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

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    November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
     #14
    Quote from: Jaagu on November 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
    Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

    Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

    You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.

    .001 cent is pretty cheap to pay to prove you actually care about the tx getting processed. 
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    November 15, 2011, 11:09:47 PM
     #15
    Quote from: Jaagu on November 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
    Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

    Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/
    It's a bad idea to keep using an older version no matter what. For example, newer versions can do wallet encryption, while older versions can't. Apart from that there may be bugs in older versions which would have been fixed in the version you're not using, and you will miss out on new features that may become important to bitcoin in general.

    There's also the thing FreeMoney mentioned just now:
    Quote from: FreeMoney on November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
    You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.
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  • JA37
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    November 15, 2011, 11:14:18 PM
     #16
    Quote from: FreeMoney on November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM

    You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.


    Not forwarded ever, or will it just take a long time?
    And does the protocol allow for something like "Send 0.003BTC without any fee, but if it hasn't been processed within 30 blocks, return it to my wallet"? That would have been a nice feature.
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    November 15, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
     #17
    Quote from: JA37 on November 15, 2011, 11:14:18 PM
    And does the protocol allow for something like "Send 0.003BTC without any fee, but if it hasn't been processed within 30 blocks, return it to my wallet"? That would have been a nice feature.
    The bitcoin protocol can do something like what you describe, but the standard client can not do this. It will just keep waiting until it's processed, and you can't "reclaim" it.
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    November 15, 2011, 11:19:56 PM
     #18
    Quote from: FreeMoney on November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
    Quote from: Jaagu on November 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
    Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

    Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

    You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.


    The current vanilla client doesn't refuse to forward the transaction, but most miners are not going to include the transaction until it's old enough to qualify as a free transaction.  I believe that the current client defaults to a transaction fee, but that can be changed in the settings.  The vanilla client will refuse to create a transaction based upon an input transaction that is newer than 6 confirmations old.
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    November 15, 2011, 11:21:57 PM
     #19
    Quote from: JA37 on November 15, 2011, 11:14:18 PM

    And does the protocol allow for something like "Send 0.003BTC without any fee, but if it hasn't been processed within 30 blocks, return it to my wallet"? That would have been a nice feature.

    Yes, but that set of features is based upon the transaction 'scripting' which is not implimented yet.  And even when it is, I can't imagine that miners are going to be willing to process a scripted transaction without a fee.
    "The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

    - Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'

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    November 15, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
     #20
    Quote from: MoonShadow on November 15, 2011, 11:19:56 PM
    Quote from: FreeMoney on November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
    Quote from: Jaagu on November 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
    Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

    Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

    You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.


    The current vanilla client doesn't refuse to forward the transaction, but most miners are not going to include the transaction until it's old enough to qualify as a free transaction.  I believe that the current client defaults to a transaction fee, but that can be changed in the settings.  The vanilla client will refuse to create a transaction based upon an input transaction that is newer than 6 confirmations old.

    Oh, my bad. I was sure that it was the others won't forward it. So a modified client can flood the network? Everyone will forward? Reference to a thread about the current state of this would be much appreciated.
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