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Topic: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value? (Read 2926 times)

Paleus (OP)

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Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM
Last edit: May 21, 2020, 12:06:17 AM by Paleus

#1

It is a simple yet not easy question to answer: why does bitcoin have value?

Bitcoin has value because it has both scarcity and utility. It is a limited and useful resource. It is important to note that something must be BOTH in order to command a market value, NOT either.

Bitcoin is limited to the software-imposed hard limit of 21,000,000 bitcoin units ever in circulation. It is useful because it allows payment information to be secured by a decentralized computing network backed by magnitudes of raw hashing power. That raw hashing power is energy (electricity) converted into digital utility. Each transaction must compete (fee market) to be included in the next block of transactions which has a limited [block space] due to the block size limit (2MB) imposed on each ~10 minute block.

We can expect both the value to increase and the number of users to increase exponentially so long as the current technology maintains itself and remains both useful and in a limited abundance.

Bitcoin will always retain market value so long as miner nodes are actively contributing their hashing power to secure the network (proof of work).

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 03:59:07 AM

#2

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

It is a simple yet not easy question to answer: why does bitcoin have value?

The answer, we believe is summarized in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv2-6KDlZSE

Bitcoin has value because it has both scarcity and utility. It is a limited and useful resource. It is limited to the software-imposed hard limit of 21,000,000 bitcoin units ever in circulation. It is useful because it allows payment information to be securely by a decentralized computing network backed by magnitudes of raw hashing power. Each transaction must compete (fee market) to be included in the next block of transactions which has a limited [block space] due to the block size limit (2MB) imposed on each ~10 minute block.

We can expect both the value to increase and the number of users to increase exponentially so long as the current technology maintains itself and remains both useful and in a limited abundance.

Learn more about bitcoin at http://diginomics.com

I think it has a value because people understand it, we can see how the engine was made and since it is a fair deal for all then people decide it has a value. The value is variable because is based on a market, but what we know is the value will never be zero.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:09:26 AM

#3

Quote from: seoincorporation on March 17, 2020, 03:59:07 AM

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

It is a simple yet not easy question to answer: why does bitcoin have value?

The answer, we believe is summarized in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv2-6KDlZSE

Bitcoin has value because it has both scarcity and utility. It is a limited and useful resource. It is limited to the software-imposed hard limit of 21,000,000 bitcoin units ever in circulation. It is useful because it allows payment information to be securely by a decentralized computing network backed by magnitudes of raw hashing power. Each transaction must compete (fee market) to be included in the next block of transactions which has a limited [block space] due to the block size limit (2MB) imposed on each ~10 minute block.

We can expect both the value to increase and the number of users to increase exponentially so long as the current technology maintains itself and remains both useful and in a limited abundance.

Learn more about bitcoin at http://diginomics.com

I think it has a value because people understand it, we can see how the engine was made and since it is a fair deal for all then people decide it has a value. The value is variable because is based on a market, but what we know is the value will never be zero.

The value will remain above zero as long as the network is still being secured by hash power (miners).

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:10:28 AM

#4

Moreover, unlike Fiat which is minted out of thin air as the Govt wishes, for mining BTC you need to spend resources (proof of work) thus making it more valuable.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:10:59 AM

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#5

Quote from: seoincorporation on March 17, 2020, 03:59:07 AM

I think it has a value because people understand it, we can see how the engine was made and since it is a fair deal for all then people decide it has a value. The value is variable because is based on a market, but what we know is the value will never be zero.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that people who actually understand Bitcoin is only a small minority. All they need to know is that Bitcoin is decentralized, trust-less, unconfiscatable, and has a hard limit. I think knowing those characteristics alone will be enough for the typical non tech-savvy person to know that it's worth something.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:18:14 AM

#6

Yes Bitcoin has value despite high fluctuation in price.
Users can transfer digital assets in quick time and complete privacy. Anyone can be owner of this cryptocurrency. You need not to complete KYC for having bitcoin wallet. Bitcoin transfer fee is very very cheap. Transaction takes place without any border. This is just the beginning of crypto era. There are lots of surprise waiting on the market. If other cryptocurrency wants to dominate the market then bitcoin will still be accepted to buy sell crypto.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:21:30 AM

#7

Bitcoin needs fiat and fiat determines its value. Fiat acts as a fuel to Bitcoins value. Without fiat being pumped into Bitcoin it has no practical use or value. Considering other cryptocurrencies in the market Bitcoin does not perform well as payment processor. Without its Fiat value Bitcoin won't be accepted by any vendors online or offline.

Your analysis is bookish and does hold any practical stand.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 04:46:26 AM

#8

Quote from: pakhitheboss on March 17, 2020, 04:21:30 AM

Bitcoin needs fiat and fiat determines its value. Fiat acts as a fuel to Bitcoins value. Without fiat being pumped into Bitcoin it has no practical use or value. Considering other cryptocurrencies in the market Bitcoin does not perform well as payment processor. Without its Fiat value Bitcoin won't be accepted by any vendors online or offline.

Your analysis is bookish and does hold any practical stand.

You need to step out of the fiat bubble and enter the brave new world of digital cryptocurrencies.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 07:43:58 PM

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#9

Very valid scientific definition of bitcoin value system. what equally gives bitcoin value in a simplified language is that it requires a lot of work and complex mathematical computation to determine each next block before reward can be awarded to the miner who has the most complex block. In its utility, it has a huge advantage over fiat. It doesn't get decayed like the fiat, it can't be counterfeited, it takes less cost to keep and store unlike the traditional cash. One of the major breakthrough of the bitcoin value system is the total control it gives the owner of the coin, which is a proof-of-key. You are your own bank, no one helps you keep it and lend it out without you gaining when in a non-custodian private wallet.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 08:01:57 PM

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#10

Quote from: pakhitheboss on March 17, 2020, 04:21:30 AM

Without its Fiat value Bitcoin won't be accepted by any vendors online or offline.

Says who? There is a merchant I buy from fairly regularly whom I (and several others) pay in bitcoin, who has told (and shown) me that he then uses that bitcoin to pay part of the salary of some of this staff members, and also to pay one of his suppliers. His employees which are paid partly in bitcoin are paid with a fixed amount of bitcoin, regardless of its fiat price. They earned relatively more in terms of fiat last June/July when the price was $13k, and they will earn relatively less currently in terms of fiat, but they always earned the same amount of bitcoin.

Bitcoin can function just fine without fiat. I earn a fixed amount of bitcoin from my signature and avatar, regardless of fiat price. I buy things from this merchant who pays his employees in a fixed amount of bitcoin, regardless of fiat price. There is no inherent need to convert to, or even think about, fiat when using bitcoin, unless you want to.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 09:06:56 PM

#11

Bitcoins value derives from its current real uses, mainly for money transfers and remittances. it's limited supply, scarcity, store of value, and its many potential uses. If you buy for day trading you may lose money, but if you hold long term, it has been proven you get a nice ROI. And bitcoin has barely started, think of the Internet/email in the '90s. A decentralized technology that has a valuable use it's not going to disappear, even if a few tyrannical governments try to ban it.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 09:08:06 PM

#12

Didn't watch the video but the reason is basic and valid and without the technical jargon the value of btc comes from us being ready to pay whatever price is there leading to demand and retaining it's value in the process.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 09:13:25 PM

#13

Yeah, you are right. Bitcoin does have value because it is scarce and has utility. But, you forgot the main thing. Demand. Bitcoin and other crypto currencies have demand for which they also have a value. As long as there is a demand for bitcoin, there will be a price. With the demand rising the price also starts to rise. But, as the demand falls and goes to zero, the price will also eventually fall and then become valueless even though if it is scarce and has utility. Look at those coins that have failed. They now worth almost nothing since they don't have any demand.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 09:18:25 PM

#14

The best answer about this can be given by a miner, the one who gives birth to new coins every single time a new block is found. The energy and electricity consumed by a mining machine is not less than what a mother collects inside her in order to push her baby out, just go and ask that mother what's the worth of that baby to her. She'll say, "Priceless". So, don't just look for a few aspects about BTC while considering it to have a value as it'll take years for you to understand what exactly is behind it that BTC has tethered all of us who never even knew each other during our lives.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 09:41:32 PM

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I think the guy on the video had answered the wrong question. The title and topic was supposed to be about why Bitcoin has value but proceeded to answer why Bitcoin is valuable which is a different thing. He did mentioned it at around 0:21 of the video when he said that "in a nutshell Bitcoin is valuable because...." so the bottomline is he didn't even answer the question to his own topic. It is really obvious when he did proceed to stray away from talking about the economic side of Bitcoin and proceed to talk about the features and why it is "better" compared to fiat currencies.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 17, 2020, 10:02:49 PM

#16

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

Bitcoin has value because it has both scarcity and utility. It is a limited and useful resource. It is important to note that something must be BOTH in order to command a market value, NOT either.

More specifically, I see "utility" as network effect, or network value. Bitcoins can only have value if other people accept and value them. Many people use Metcalfe's law as a model for Bitcoin's network effect and value.

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

We can expect both the value to increase and the number of users to increase exponentially so long as the current technology maintains itself and remains both useful and in a limited abundance.

Bitcoin adoption is a free market process. There is no guarantee of exponentially increasing adoption.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 18, 2020, 12:46:58 AM

#17

Majority of Bitcoin's value comes from speculation rather than fundamentals (scarcity and utility), we can see it by how much the price moves without any change in fundamentals at all. And it makes Bitcoin really unpredictable, it's almost impossible to make any educated guess for where the price is going, maybe we'll see $100,000 or maybe $100, maybe even both - who knows.

Quote from: Paleus on March 17, 2020, 03:41:04 AM

We can expect both the value to increase and the number of users to increase exponentially so long as the current technology maintains itself and remains both useful and in a limited abundance.

Why? People so often make these "moon" predictions without any proof that the growth will indeed be exponential. Drawing parallels with adoption of other technologies doesn't actually prove that Bitcoin will repeat their history.

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 18, 2020, 02:57:23 AM

#18

Quote from: pakhitheboss on March 17, 2020, 04:21:30 AM

Bitcoin needs fiat and fiat determines its value. Fiat acts as a fuel to Bitcoins value.

By this logic, anything fiat 'related' could be considered the same thing as Bitcoin, "no value or practical use". Gold, bonds, mutual funds, etc.

Fiat are just a unit of exchange, in this case, the same as BTC when it was used in trading pairs. Remember that a guy buys pizza with bitcoin in the past when there's no 'fiat injected to pump it'.

At this moment, it's probably not possible to expect any valuation fully expressed on Bitcoin from merchants, but that does not mean it's impossible.

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The Cryptovator

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 18, 2020, 05:09:34 AM

#19

I will say, we are the one who giving value to bitcoin. Bitcoin valuable because of its strong community. You know when bitcoin was created then it was zero value, it was just a code. When people realized the use of this codes and what would be the benefits of it then they become interested on this peer to peer decentralized electronic cash system called bitcoin blockchain. And that's how community start build up, in a result bitcoin become most valuable worldwide. So it will expand more day by day and it will not ended. That's why bitcoin value totally depends on its community.

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amishmanish

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Re: Why Does Bitcoin Have Value?

March 18, 2020, 05:38:52 AM

#20

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on March 18, 2020, 12:46:58 AM

Majority of Bitcoin's value comes from speculation rather than fundamentals (scarcity and utility), we can see it by how much the price moves without any change in fundamentals at all.

Bitcoin fundamentals are not just scarcity and utility but the evolved technology, community and the network, as well a the established methods of this evolution. It is nearly impossible to duplicate this evolution of miner infrastructure, community support AND decentralized decision-making. The fact that bitcoin is here is here to stay.

The next fundamental that all the "business" people cry about is "utility on blockchain". This is where success of LN becomes all the more important. If the LN infrastructure gets going, it'll mean that the tech has matured to a level where a layer-2 utility can use the security of base layer. The use there-on is limited only by the acceptance of bitcoin's advantages by the people and developers. Instead of hating on each other, people can just accept bitcoin as it is and work with it instead of against it.

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