Isn't there a bit of a problem that you need to "deduce" the point(s) that you believe Wakate is trying to make?

I will concede that on a regular basis, forum members make posts (and points) that can be difficult to figure out; however, when there is so much additional obscurity that is created from a failure/refusal to use the word "bitcoin," then at least forum members should NOT either be shying away from the use of the word bitcoin or perhaps attempting to make it seem like they are talking about broader concepts (that go beyond bitcoin) by using the word "crypto" and to be implying that bitcoin is contained within the more broader word "crypto"  that they chose to use.

None of us should be having to try to figure out what the fuck other members are saying because they fail/refuse to use the word bitcoin - especially within a topic in which bitcoin is the subject matter - when we are referring to what El Salvador made into legal tender last year.

El Salvador did not make "crypto" into legal tender.. because that would have been retarded.. and don't get me wrong, there are some retarded people out there who are in positions of power, and luckily neither El Salvador (nor Bukele) took that kind of an unfocused path in terms of what they were trying to do upon implementing their law and what they seem to continue to do - 1 year after the law went into effect.


Ok.  

First of all, perhaps Wakate was wanting to say something like that, yet it seems that it would have been much easier to figure out if he would have at least clarified what he meant by "crypto" and how and where bitcoin might have fit into such picture that he was wanting to describe.

Second, why would there be any need to talk about what is happening with "crypto" as a whole rather than to just stay focused on what is happening with bitcoin.  Yeah... many people tend to not know what bitcoin is as compared with various vague-ass concepts like "crypto", so they just throw out the word "crypto" because they want it to appear as if they know what they are talking about because they are speaking more broadly.. beyond just talking about bitcoin.  Actually I don't have any problem with the idea of talking beyond bitcoin, but there are ways to describe such situation by talking about bitcoin and sometimes referring to bitcoin and various other crypto project.. or to refer to general price dynamics that might be happening beyond bitcoin on its own.. yet no matter what there still seems to be some need to figure out how to use the word bitcoin so we at least realize that you are trying to refer to bitcoin when using the "crypto" word "crypto"  


Who fucking cares about broad and general context without putting such claims within the framework of bitcoin?  It seems to me that we should be trying to focus on bitcoin first, and yeah sure we can talk about various outside factors that might affect bitcoin's UP or DOWN price dynamics, yet it is not going to get us very far to be vaguely referring to such general matters without figuring out where bitcoin might be in that mix.. or at least somehow tying bitcoin into the topic and even using the word bitcoin in order that we know what is being talked about instead of some vague general concepts about crypto.. and yeah, I know that a lot of people refer to vague general concepts, but that should not mean that we should allow ourselves to devolve into such gobble-dee-gook and muddy thinking and fail/refuse to specify what it is that we are trying to say exactly.. as it relates to bitcoin.

Tell me, why any of us should give any shits about general "crypto" dynamics unless we are just some no nothing shitcoiner who does not know the difference between bitcoin and a variety of shitcoins, and therefore tries to appear like s/he knows what the fuck s/he is talking about by using vague "crypto" language and describing some kind of vague concept that hardly even seems to matter without knowing about where bitcoin fits within that description.


Sure. I cannot disagree with you about preferring the analysis of something like El Salvador's Bitcoin adoption situation based on the longer-term rather than shorter-term considerations, because there are a lot of reasons that it could take a long time to figure out the extent to which El Salvador is advantaged or disadvantaged in regards to getting into bitcoin, and a lot of the bitcoin (and El Salvador) naysayers like to look at how the price of bitcoin had gone down in the past 10 months or so, and then to attempt to assign dire consequences on El Salvador, and the fact of the matter seems to be that El Salvador has a pretty small percentage of its overall treasury and cashflow that is locked away in bitcoin.  

Anyone should recognize and appreciate that the economies of countries are much more complex than either individuals or institutions, and even if we can make some comparisons regarding spending within our means and even various ways that money is invested, from the information that we have in the public, the size of El Salvador's bitcoin purchases, seems to be way less than 5% of its overall budget and other investments.. yet I am sure there are a variety of ways that budgets can be calculated and assessed, and I do not claim to have any specific contemporary information to make those kinds of assessments, even though it seems that some of that kind of information has been presented in this thread and in other El Salvador threads on the forum.. and sure it is likely possible to research into those kinds of size of budget and size of bitcoin investments assessments - even if perhaps all information is not available or even released on regular basis..

News about the adoption of cryptocurrencies in Africa has actually been circulating and has been in several media, it's just that there is nothing recent like the one made this month, but for the news in the previous month it has been promoted more by the media. This means that Africa already has very good plans for the adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and is working to make that happen over time.

Some of the obstacles that you mention are indeed very reasonable so that the state must continue to strive to make other better ways so that it is no longer hampered by volatility, legal regulation, and financial literacy. Because of all that there will be more solutions if more people are willing to think about it in order to achieve the goal of mass adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. After all it also includes the economic sector that is better for all of them.

My dear friend, in a geography where access to financial services is so low (https://twitter.com/WorldBankAfrica/status/1002901452237524997), adoption rates of Bitcoin are expected to be higher under normal conditions. I'm not saying that Africa is reacting negatively to Bitcoin. On the contrary, I meant that since Africa has a very good attitude towards Bitcoin, it should have better adoption rates in the current conditions. Sorry if I said something wrong.

All in all, I think Africa is an excellent experimental space for cryptocurrencies. If we are to observe a great change in the world one day, we must see strong precursors of this change in Africa. I'm just a little impatient and would like to see more concrete cases.

This might have a impact on El Salvador because,  President Bukele says he will seek re-election.

As per report, it's constitution doesn't allow the current President for reelection, but it seems Bukele wanted to run after his term in 2024. I think it will be critical for bitcoin as well, because if the next President suddenly make a U-turn on the country's stance on Bitcoin and vetoed, then maybe we will see the country no longer synonymous with bitcoin's adoption. Or if he is allow to run and then win again, obviously, it might continue to grow in the next 4-6 years in El Salvador alone.

Your link does not work (wmaurik provided some related links), and my understanding is that the "constitution" is not unambiguous on the point of running again.. so there are ways that the constitution can be interpreted to allow running again, even if historically none of the prior presidents read it that way..

In other words.. saying the "constitution does not allow" sounds like a spin on the topic.

But yeah of course, the topic seems to be relevant to this thread since Bukele is a pro-bitcoin leader, so many bitcoiners are going to consider it to be an advantage to NOT have the uncertainties regarding a transition in the administration - with the presumption that Bukele has pretty decent chances of winning if he were to run again (and if the matter seems to be settled that he is allowed to run again)..

We might have to look more closely at the actual constitutional language if members here are presenting issues as if they were absolutes.. when clearly, Bukele would not be running if there were not some kind of loop hole that he (and his administration) considers to be sufficiently legitimate to allow him to run again.

Are we going to need to look at the language of the constitution and get into the issue? or just accept that "Bukele is breaking the law blah blah blah"


He did not say that.  He specifically mentioned countries non-specifically and then he mentioned the African continent..

You seem to be the one that merged the two ideas and then presumed a specific country as you are now fleshing out your presumption further by saying maybe he meant CAR..

If something that a member said is already vague, then why make it more vague or worse by specifying it wrongly?


Other countries in Africa get attention too.. such as Nigeria and Ghana.. but still, getting back to my earlier point.. if we want to talk about any country, then each of them are going to have their specifics.. and the topic is not even limited to the ones we mentioned, and seems to be off topic for this thread unless we were to be making some kind of reference to how it might relate to El Salvador.. I mean this is not the any country thread.. so if we start to get off topic, then at least there should be some attempt to connect  the off-topic aspect with what we are talking about here. and if we want to get into a lot of details, we either need to go to another thread or create a new thread on that angle/topic.

Africa's dealings with bitcoin is an individual thing not collective and the approach administered by each countries is different from each other, and once we are talking of world continents, Africa has a different mentality from others not because they are blacks but they are developing countries in high percentage and wants means to facilitate their growth as in case of Central African Republic while some of them are just adamant about it all, but bitcoin is legalize in almost all the countries and many are thinking of possible means to imitate El-Savador's adoption but indecesiveness is a factor dealing with them from taking a step forward.


it surprised me as well and i asked myself what exactly now is the point one should believe in all he said if what he's referencing isn't right, well I just want to believe that it's a mistake he did maybe during the copy and paste of a thing or maybe he got the whole thing wrong from the right process, thanks JayJuanGee for such identification, many could have got misled by wrong articles that are not verified.

As the sale of El Salvador debt bunds discussion and process gotten to a conclusion with the issuance of the bund to prospective investors who may want to invest in the economy of El Salvador and a target of 2025 interest yielding bund a measure taken by president Nayib Bukele for economic recovery projects that aim at maturity in 2023-2025.
This project also includes the building of the bitcoin city and the volcano power project that is designed to power the bitcoin city and some other revenue-generating agencies in El Salvador, president Nayib Bukele also announced the government buying of a total of 54% of the bond at $565 million as a government repurchasing of the entire public bond but what is not clear right now is if the entire bond was sold out to bidders in 100% sale out at the moment.
And with the way things are going the president of El Salvador Nayib Bukele if re-elected in the coming election, will surely continue with the developmental plan as he is a pro-bitcoin individual and this will help the Economy of El Salvador in the long run.

Just a small note on a percentage that I saw thrown around yesterday, that I don’t recall seeing on English written media. El Salvador’s Tourism Minister stated indirectly (*) that, specifically in her sector of concern, 15% of the business in the tourism sector are receiving payments in bitcoin.

The slightly annoying thing is the choice of the term "using" when referring to the said 15%. One cannot infer properly whether she means accepting or accepting and receiving bitcoin TXs. I presume the latter, since legally they should all be accepting, providing they have the infrastructure for it.
Of course, there is no context to that figure, which leads to some headlines I’ve seem flipping the number and stating that 85% of tourism related businesses were not "using" bitcoin. Likely, that 15% is prone to be more concentrated in certain types of business and tourism areas, precisely where the majority of tourists go.

The Minister also stated that adopting bitcoin has generated 30% more income for the tourism sector. That’s yet another figure I’d like to see properly contextualized, especially if the increment is compared to Covid figures which, bitcoin or no bitcoin, are bound to be way lower than those of nowadays per se.

(*) She actually stated that 500 business were "using" bitcoin, there being 3.418 registered companies in the tourism sector.

See (GT): https://www-criptonoticias-com.translate.goog/finanzas/15-sector-turismo-el-salvador-recibe-pagos-bitcoin/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Yes, I didn't mention a country name. I tried to refer to regions that do not have financial access. I have no bad thoughts about Africa or El Salvador. I respect these geographies and the people who live there. I just wanted to say my expectations.

Until the First International, Marx was waiting for the workers' revolution in one of the developed capitalist countries because the working class was most oppressed in these countries. His prediction did not come true, but he evaluated the current conditions simply and powerfully. Likewise, I was trying to establish a simple and powerful logic. Bitcoin had the potential to gain mass adoption at revolutionary speed in geographies with limited financial access.


https://twitter.com/WorldBankAfrica/status/1002901452237524997



But the African and El Salvadorian experiences empirically disproved this simple thesis. That's why I find Bitcoin adoption in Africa and El Salvador slower than expected. Personally, I expected dizzying demands from geographies like these.