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    Author Topic: I think Bitcoin is great as an asset and not as a Currency.  (Read 1186 times)

    • cn567 (OP)
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    June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
     #1
    Hello everyone so first thing I believe in crypto and it is one of the best thing and de-fi is a revolutionary idea and I really love it. So everyone including me thought Bitcoin should be used as currency but after a period of time I realised something and I am just sharing with y’all to know if you all agree with me or not.

    So recently we see Micro Strategy is buying and buying bitcoin and they are trying accumulate more and more and I read somewhere they are planning to buy 20-30% of the Bitcoin’s market supply, yes this information might be wrong but someone else who is rich can do this anyone with money and can accumulate bitcoin.

    AND YES IK THEY HAVE STATED “ THAT THEY WILL NOT SELL BITCOIN FOR 100 YEARS”

    So the problem with declaring or using Bitcoin as a currency is that it Is not good for the economy of that country if they have a currency which very limited, limited than gold as their currency and Bitcoin is a currency which rich people can afford, and yes I know we can buy bitcoin with even 10$ but that is not the point, the problem is that there is a rich person out there who is holding a really great % of bitcoin just because he/she has stated that they won’t sell bitcoin for 100 years you should not base your whole economy on that because it’s like putting a sword on your head what I they change their mind and start selling, a person who has 10$ worth bitcoin will become 1$ and you and me both agree that is bad for both country and people residing in it. Yes it will be temporary but no no one will know when will bitcoin restore it values and that can mess with government’s and people’s dream.

    And one more thing if a person is a trying to accumulate more and more bitcoin then indirectly it will be centralised and we will just hope that they don’t sell and just ask your self do you want to depend on other people for your destiny.

    And to be honest I don’t like the concept of HODLING because it is a CRYPTOCURRENCY not a CRYPTOASSET, assets are meant to be hold and not currencies, Do you store use no right you spend them on things you love and buy it and that makes a country’s economy stable because their currency is trading each and every day, use, yen, euro, etc are regularly circulating and no on is holding it.

    Conclusion:

    It depends on us what we want to shape crypto in a long term as an asset or as a currency, but we can’t have it both.

    See I am just sharing my thoughts and want your opinion on this that do you agree with me or not.

  • BlackHatCoiner
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    June 12, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
     #2
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    I read somewhere they are planning to buy 20-30% of the Bitcoin’s market supply
    Where did you read that? Did Saylor tweet it?

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    So the problem with declaring or using Bitcoin as a currency is that it Is not good for the economy of that country if they have a currency which very limited, limited than gold as their currency and Bitcoin is a currency which rich people can afford, and yes I know we can buy bitcoin with even 10$ but that is not the point, the problem is that there is a rich person out there who is holding a really great % of bitcoin just because he/she has stated that they won’t sell bitcoin for 100 years you should not base your whole economy on that because it’s like putting a sword on your head what I they change their mind and start selling, a person who has 10$ worth bitcoin will become 1$ and you and me both agree that is bad for both country and people residing in it. Yes it will be temporary but no no one will know when will bitcoin restore it values and that can mess with government’s and people’s dream.
    In the above complex part of your message, you try to explain that if the majority sees it as an investment it'll be volatile, correct?

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    And one more thing if a person is a trying to accumulate more and more bitcoin then indirectly it will be centralised and we will just hope that they don’t sell and just ask your self do you want to depend on other people for your destiny.
    This has nothing to do with centralization; it's just bad wealth distribution.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    And to be honest I don’t like the concept of HODLING because it is a CRYPTOCURRENCY not a CRYPTOASSET, assets are meant to be hold and not currencies
    I don't like that term either, but if the currency is deflationary or if it's slowly decreasing in its inflation, it will worth more in the future whether you want it or not. Even Bitcoin that is the most volatile asset this decade seems that it's gaining more and more economic value. But, the problem doesn't come from the way that it inflates; it's the fact that no one controls it. There's no administrator that will “print” more Bitcoins to balance a specific exchange rate, so whether it's highly inflationary or deflationary, there will be fluctuations.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    It depends on us what we want to shape crypto in a long term as an asset or as a currency, but we can’t have it both.
    I can't say that I agree with this.

  • cn567 (OP)
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    June 12, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
     #3
    No Saylor didn't tweeted it but with the speed they are accumulating it won't be a shock that they own 20% of Bitcoin supply and let us assume he doesn't do that but anyone can do that if they have money, if a person i really really really rich then sure he can buy 20% of BTC and that's not fair to other people,

    See tbh I also don't know am I right or wrong I just had a thought and wanted people's opinion what I am thinking is right or wrong, but trust me HODLING BTC is not a good thing ONLY IF YOU WANT IT TO BE A CURRENCY, otherwise if you treat it as a Digital Gold which was it meant to be then HODLING is not at all a issue.

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    June 12, 2021, 06:22:34 PM
     #4
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    And to be honest I don’t like the concept of HODLING because it is a CRYPTOCURRENCY not a CRYPTOASSET, assets are meant to be hold and not currencies, Do you store use no right you spend them on things you love and buy it and that makes a country’s economy stable because their currency is trading each and every day, use, yen, euro, etc are regularly circulating and no on is holding it.
    Bitcoin isn't just exclusively a currency, and mind you that it's yet to get to the level of mainstream adoption that'll mean it can be used as a currency like the USD, Yuan, Euro etc, thus for now it can be used as either a currency, an asset or whatever anyone wishes to do with it (except fraud). Bitcoin is and will never be like the traditional Fiat that's tied to the economy, Bitcoin is decentralized, with the users "being their own bank", and mind you that there are quite a lot of people who use Bitcoin to buy things every now and then.

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  • BlackHatCoiner
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    June 12, 2021, 06:24:06 PM
     #5
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
    No Saylor didn't tweeted it but with the speed they are accumulating it won't be a shock that they own 20% of Bitcoin
    No, I'm pretty sure that it'll be a shock. Owning 20% of Bitcoin means around 3,7 million bitcoins. Even if we assumed that exchange rate stayed the same (that will not, but anyway IF) they'd need around 129.5 billion dollars. Quite hard when MicroStrategy's net worth doesn't exceed the 10 digits.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
    See tbh I also don't know am I right or wrong I just had a thought and wanted people's opinion what I am thinking is right or wrong, but trust me HODLING BTC is not a good thing ONLY IF YOU WANT IT TO BE A CURRENCY, otherwise if you treat it as a Digital Gold which was it meant to be then HODLING is not at all a issue.
    There's no reason to use bold and uppercase together, it's annoying and it feels like you're yelling. Whoever is satisfied with Bitcoin's functionalities can use it as a currency; it has properties that the traditional banking system lacks of.

  • cn567 (OP)
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    June 12, 2021, 06:46:18 PM
     #6
    Quote from: Coyster on June 12, 2021, 06:22:34 PM
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    And to be honest I don’t like the concept of HODLING because it is a CRYPTOCURRENCY not a CRYPTOASSET, assets are meant to be hold and not currencies, Do you store use no right you spend them on things you love and buy it and that makes a country’s economy stable because their currency is trading each and every day, use, yen, euro, etc are regularly circulating and no on is holding it.
    Bitcoin isn't just exclusively a currency, and mind you that it's yet to get to the level of mainstream adoption that'll mean it can be used as a currency like the USD, Yuan, Euro etc, thus for now it can be used as either a currency, an asset or whatever anyone wishes to do with it (except fraud). Bitcoin is and will never be like the traditional Fiat that's tied to the economy, Bitcoin is decentralized, with the users "being their own bank", and mind you that there are quite a lot of people who use Bitcoin to buy things every now and then.

    Yes I know people use it to buy and sell stuff but the majority people are hodlers let me give you a simple example

    You are a normal working man and is paid salary in Bitcoin, your salary is 20,000$ so your company gives you that much worth of bitcoin as salary, now the Bitcoin prices rises which means you 20k salary becomes 25-30k or more which is obviously very very good but what if that 20k become 15-10k so tell me is that a steady income every person has his calculations that he will this much and save this much but now the price has dropped so your whole monthly planning is messed up, your expenses are same as before but your salary is not same, now do you think is a great idea to adopt is as a currency.

    AND I DON'T KNOW WHY GIVE SUCH EXAMPLES THEY THINK I HAVE PROBLEM WITH BITCOIN'S VOLATILITY, NO I DON'T I HAVE 0% PROB WITH IT I AM A FULL TIME TRADER, this might have happened to you if you are trading in crypto you might have plans to buy something but the prices go downs so ob you won't be able to buy that unless BTC restores it's price, majority of us a are a trader and we know that BTC will rise again but what about regular people they don't what will happen when will it go up or down they just want their money to fulfil their dreams.

    One more thing GOD FORBID if anything happens to you or anyone in your family and let us assume Bitcoin is legal everywhere and you have to pay operation fees which is 34,000$ = almost 1 BTC acc to current market price, so you are about to pay 1 BTC and the prices went down to 28,000 then you have shortfall of 6000$ how will you arrange that ?

    See there are many economical problems to use Bitcoin as a currency.

  • cn567 (OP)
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    June 12, 2021, 06:55:45 PM
     #7
    Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 12, 2021, 06:24:06 PM
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
    No Saylor didn't tweeted it but with the speed they are accumulating it won't be a shock that they own 20% of Bitcoin
    No, I'm pretty sure that it'll be a shock. Owning 20% of Bitcoin means around 3,7 million bitcoins. Even if we assumed that exchange rate stayed the same (that will not, but anyway IF) they'd need around 129.5 billion dollars. Quite hard when MicroStrategy's net worth doesn't exceed the 10 digits.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
    See tbh I also don't know am I right or wrong I just had a thought and wanted people's opinion what I am thinking is right or wrong, but trust me HODLING BTC is not a good thing ONLY IF YOU WANT IT TO BE A CURRENCY, otherwise if you treat it as a Digital Gold which was it meant to be then HODLING is not at all a issue.
    There's no reason to use bold and uppercase together, it's annoying and it feels like you're yelling. Whoever is satisfied with Bitcoin's functionalities can use it as a currency; it has properties that the traditional banking system lacks of.

    I think my bold and capital letters have affected your eyes please read it again, Let us forget Michale Saylor

    Jeff Bezos - 19 Trillion Crores Dollars
    Bill Gates - 12.5 Trillion Crores Dollars
    Mark Zuckerberg - 11.97 Trillion Crores Dollars

    and many moreeee....

    These guys can buy 20% Of Bitcoin Market Supply if they want and don't comeback with stupid comeback like it will be a bad wealth decision they are smart they won't do that or anything like that, be practical even I love and support bitcoin but just please sit back and think.

    and I agree with the fact that it has properties that the traditional banking system lacks of, but what about the other economic problems it is creating please just the read my above message in which I have replied to someone you will understand what I am trying to say.

  • o_e_l_e_o
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    June 12, 2021, 06:57:42 PM
     #8
    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    So the problem with declaring or using Bitcoin as a currency is that it Is not good for the economy of that country if they have a currency which very limited
    Bitcoin can be subdivided down to a single satoshi on the base layer, and down to a milli-satoshi (that's 11 decimal places) on Lightning. Yes, it has a finite supply, but it can be subdivided to any value required for day-to-day spending.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    the problem is that there is a rich person out there who is holding a really great % of bitcoin
    As opposed to fiat, where 8 individuals hold more money than 50% of the human race?

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
    a person who has 10$ worth bitcoin will become 1$ and you and me both agree that is bad for both country and people residing in it.
    Again, how is this different to fiat? The value of all fiat currencies steadily declines over time. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but always on a steady trajectory towards the bottom.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:46:18 PM
    but now the price has dropped so your whole monthly planning is messed up, your expenses are same as before but your salary is not same, now do you think is a great idea to adopt is as a currency.
    So he asks to get paid in fiat-pegged amount of bitcoin. If the price goes up, he gets less bitcoin but the same amount of fiat. If the prices goes down, he gets more bitcoin but the same amount of fiat. If we reach the point where he can pay his bills and expenses in a flat rate of bitcoin regardless of the fiat price, then this no longer becomes necessary.

    Quote from: cn567 on June 12, 2021, 06:46:18 PM
    See there are many economical problems to use Bitcoin as a currency.
    None of your arguments assume bitcoin is working as a currency, though. All of your arguments assume that fiat is the currency, everyone uses fiat, all prices are denominated in fiat, and people are swapping back and forth to bitcoin. If bitcoin is working as a currency, then I can get paid in bitcoin and I can spend that bitcoin without ever touching fiat or looking at the fiat-bitcoin exchange rate.

  • just_Alice
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    June 12, 2021, 07:41:05 PM
     #9
    The same argument can be used for many assets, for instance, the stock market. But people don't do that anymore, as price manipulation with stocks is illegal. I think when Bitcoin becomes legal, maybe some similar regulations will be implemented.

    And yes, you're right, people shouldn't hold Bitcoin forever (figuratively speaking), because it will make it more like an asset. But what there's to be done? You can't prohibit holding and order people to use Bitcoin. Especially at times like now, when abilities to make purchases with crypto on a legal basis are very limited.

    I think this problem will go away to some extent when Bitcoin will become more adopted and people will use, say, 50/50 crypto and fiat. That will keep the coins in circulation because people will have the opportunity and will use it. Some will still hold, but that amount will be much less.

  • hatshepsut93
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    June 12, 2021, 08:21:55 PM
     #10
    Bitcoin is a currency, it's just  a not very convenient one because of volatility and occasional high fees. But any currency has some drawbacks, fiat currency gets devalued with inflation, while Bitcoin has no such problems, so you can just store it yourself without the need to invest it somewhere. Store of value is also an aspect of money, money is not simply a unit of exchange.

  • teosanru
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    June 12, 2021, 08:30:40 PM
     #11
    An Asset always has an intrinsic value that is based on its utility, for example, gold has an ornamental value and is considered as a luxury, Stocks of different companies derive their values from the underlying assets and liabilities and the value of the future cash flows which that company might have. The value of currencies is generally based on the economic conditions of the countries which is why the exchange rate between the countries generally reflects the purchasing power parity between two countries. Similarly, the utility of bitcoin is as a currency. Any Asset which doesn't have a utility is basically a bubble, so this is sort of a paradox, if you consider bitcoin as an asset, it basically is not an asset at all because its utility lies in spending it not holding it, while if everyone starts spending it as a currency it's value might fall a lot from what it is today.

  • Dhoe
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    June 13, 2021, 02:53:40 AM
     #12
    all currencies have their own weaknesses, if in one country there are too many paper money prints then the paper money will automatically decrease, as well as bitcoin, if bitcoin has been used as currency then the bitcoin price will automatically go down too, I agree with your opinion, we will continue to make bitcoin an asset, so the price will continue to skyrocket..

  • Fundamentals Of
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    June 13, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
     #13
    Why not both? In fact, Bitcoin is both an asset and a currency today. You can spend your Bitcoin right now as a real money. But you can also invest in it and store your value there. You can also buy it as an asset and just hodl it to make your value increase. Those are different uses of the same cryptocurrency which is Bitcoin.

    In fact, Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador today as it is an asset in China. That's both happening at the same time.

  • OcTradism
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    June 13, 2021, 03:27:53 AM
     #14
    Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 13, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
    Why not both? In fact, Bitcoin is both an asset and a currency today. You can spend your Bitcoin right now as a real money. But you can also invest in it and store your value there. You can also buy it as an asset and just hodl it to make your value increase. Those are different uses of the same cryptocurrency which is Bitcoin.

    In fact, Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador today as it is an asset in China. That's both happening at the same time.
    You can use Bitcoin to buy, sell products but it is far from a normal currency. Especially it is not a good currency in times transaction fees are crazy high. No one will be readily to pay excessive fee for bitcoin transaction when the payment is for a small deal, a cup of coffee, a glass of tea, etc.

    For small stuffs, minor deals, Lightning network can solve this problems but LN does not get good adoption so far.

    I am keen on an asset rather than a currency for main usecase of Bitcoin.
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  • acener
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    June 13, 2021, 03:39:04 AM
     #15
    LOL for me it sounds like another FOMO news why don't you share where you pick up those joke so we could all laugh at it,
    Investing on it and wouldn't sell for 100 years so who would use their investment their grand child? how much would they invest to ignore it through those years?
    I agree to your title but what you are talking is a good joke.

  • Fundamentals Of
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    June 13, 2021, 04:04:16 AM
     #16
    Quote from: OcTradism on June 13, 2021, 03:27:53 AM
    Quote from: Fundamentals Of on June 13, 2021, 03:23:52 AM
    Why not both? In fact, Bitcoin is both an asset and a currency today. You can spend your Bitcoin right now as a real money. But you can also invest in it and store your value there. You can also buy it as an asset and just hodl it to make your value increase. Those are different uses of the same cryptocurrency which is Bitcoin.

    In fact, Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador today as it is an asset in China. That's both happening at the same time.
    You can use Bitcoin to buy, sell products but it is far from a normal currency. Especially it is not a good currency in times transaction fees are crazy high. No one will be readily to pay excessive fee for bitcoin transaction when the payment is for a small deal, a cup of coffee, a glass of tea, etc.

    For small stuffs, minor deals, Lightning network can solve this problems but LN does not get good adoption so far.

    I am keen on an asset rather than a currency for main usecase of Bitcoin.

    We are still on the development stage. We already have Lightning but still it is not yet as widely used as we want it to be. So Bitcoin transactions are to be limited to large amounts if we are to use on-chain payments. But it does not mean it is not a currency.

    Second layer payments are not expensive. In El Salvador, even small street vendors are selling their food and other goods in Bitcoin. You can easily buy a piece of shirt, groceries, burgers, etc in Bitcoin. So if it is possible to use Bitcoin as a currency in El Salvador, it is also very possible in other countries.

  • Tumanggor
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    June 13, 2021, 04:35:04 AM
     #17
    Quote from: dansus021 on June 13, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
    yes in my perspective bitcoin can be two side: a coin and asset, in my country of indonesia bitcoin considering as commodity like a gold and silver not a cryptocurrency
    as an asset and as a currency, Bitcoin really fits in both
    I'm not too idealistic in responding to what Bitcoin is more suitable to be called

    for me Bitcoin I can call both. btw, we live in the same country so I also agree with our government's view on Bitcoin
    El Salvador was the first country to become Bitcoin as a legal tender, so we can call Bitcoin a currency too

  • xSkylarx
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    June 13, 2021, 05:16:18 AM
     #18
    Bitcoin is great for both situations.

    It is a good asset because no one really owns it. You have the right how you will secure it properly and banks have no control of it. Also, its supply is very limited but the demand is continuously increasing over the years causing for its price to soar greatly.

    It is also good as a currency for me because you can send or pay someone anytime anywhere you are. It introduces the concept of blockchain technology which would have a big impact on our future in terms of innovation.

  • yazher
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    June 13, 2021, 05:21:11 AM
     #19
    Quote from: acener on June 13, 2021, 03:39:04 AM
    LOL for me it sounds like another FOMO news why don't you share where you pick up those joke so we could all laugh at it,
    Investing on it and wouldn't sell for 100 years so who would use their investment their grand child? how much would they invest to ignore it through those years?
    I agree to your title but what you are talking is a good joke.

    There are already lots of these kinds of posts that had been going around for years stating that they don't agree with what the other people claimed about the good things that bitcoins can do. Until today they claimed has no basis and it's purely delusions which are often fell to regret because whenever the bull run has come, they are out of BTC on their wallet because they don't believe that the price will reach up to that high. the truth is, they don't even have any BTC wallet, to begin with. If you get your sources from these kinds of people, you will end up in deep regret whenever there is a bull run.

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    June 13, 2021, 05:54:21 AM
     #20
    Bitcoin is great for an asset and currency because bitcoin can cross the border and be used in all countries. If you use bitcoin as an asset, you do not have to sell bitcoin for daily use, but you will use bitcoin for the investment and sell only if the price increases. You can use the other crypto as the currency and in the cryptocurrency, there are stable coins that you can use as a currency. You do not have to worry about the volatility of bitcoin price, and you can hold your bitcoin until you decide to sell it later.
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