A capitalist system does not have "classes."  It's a fallacious term applicable to other systems of social organization but not to capitalism.

And what is "working class?"  That term is thrown around but it means nothing. I dare say the CEO earning $500,000 per year and working 16 hrs a day is more aptly labeled "working class" than most who ascribe that title to themselves.

All men must produce, trade, and negotiate to their best of their ability. The fact that some are less successful than others, or run across worse circumstances than others, does not discredit those who are more successful or run across better circumstances.

So long as one is not lying, cheating, stealing, or hurting his neighbors, he is behaving fairly and morally, and a system which enables men to behave fairly in that way becomes a capitalist, or "market based," system, inevitably.

I am not mistaken. You think somebody got the better deal. Why does your perspective have any say over somebody elses desires? There is no objective value. If anything, you're delusional.

You may think the money is worth more but that is only your perspective. It is not infallible, it is not objective. The fact is Bob wanted the candy bar over the money. He did not sacrifice. He only feels more pleasure and that's his damn right.

No, you don't feel they are compensated equally. Somebody feels 2 dollars an hour if good enough for his work. You don't. It's only your perception of equality. It's not objective.

...and, no, the Marxist theory of value is not objective either.

You see, now you feel this exchange will cause you to sacrifice. You leave. You're not going to allow yourself to get shorted.

However, I feel you might be better off still talking to me. That doesn't really mean anything, does it?

In the end, you only know the fair price. You only know what's best for you. There is no objective value.

Again, please don't go off topic and make this personal. Im not going anywhere and if I am wrong I will gladly admit to it.
Your attempt to make my feelings hinder my point of view will not work. These immaturities do not affect me.


Honestly, I dont care how you feel lol. I know nothing about you, nor do I care. The only reason we are conversing is because of this current discussion.


Yes, exactly. I think we may be speaking about something different at this point.

I was responding to what Erik said, which had more to do with the Worker--Boss relationship and the classes in our current society.
Your points are more on the transactional basis, which forgive me, I dont know enough about to to make an accurate decision wether to agree or disagree with you.

I hope you were not insulted by me and can continue have this friendly discussion 

The working class is those people who work to earn a living. This is compared to the poor, who cannot work for a living, and the monied class, who do not work because they have so much money they just live off the interest it generates.

Okay let's make this simpler...

Two cave men. One which is good at making straight spears out of wood. The other is good at making arrowheads out of rock. If they only use their own skills, both of them starve to death because the spear is incomplete.

However, a simple trade makes them both measurably better off.

Now, why do you still say that one of them is getting ripped off, that one is made worse? Please explain, because it seems quite clear to me that by trading wealth is being generated and both are made happier for it.

The president of my company was once an engineer and moved up.  One of the engineers in my company was once a factory worker.  In fact the engineering department lately has brought on another factory worker that taught himself CAD.  If a factory worker can become an engineer and then teach himself business and become the president where does that leave your point?

The crux of the argument lies in peoples' definition of "fair".  Fair isn't a universal absolute, it isn't tangible and is only as real as it is in the mind of the individual, like "good" and "bad".  As an extreme example let's take a mentally challenged person.  Does he deserve to make as much as the highest paid member of our society?  From one perspective you could argue that he produces/offers less worth to the society and it would be unfair for him to have the same access to resources as others that contribute more.  Conversely you could also argue that it wasn't his fault that he was born mentally deficient and as such should, in the name of fairness, earn the same as everyone else.

In nature the weak get weeded out.  Our "civilized" manners in modern society is but a thin veil covering the true animal reality we all still live in.  If things being "fair" were what was needed to survive and progress that would be the cornerstone of our history, but it's not.

I'm agreeing with you. Read my whole post.

I totally disagree with this.

Capitalism is the main root of the today world's most barbarous problems like: hungry, wars, diseases, poverty, pollution, waste, envy, competition, etc and etc...

I'm about to begin the end of capitalism. By starting a new, moneyless, society.

The Bitcoin Litecoin Namecoin will be heavily used during the transition of this sick society, to the new one.

Best!
Thiago