I work for a salary of no more than $230 in one month. I can't rely on this money to buy Bitcoin, to pay electricity, water, internet, food and drink, school fees have not given much money left over to buy bitcoin. But actually I am lucky enough to have known Bitcoin since 2015. So I feel happy, right now I am focusing on the funds I have for the needs of life and Bitcoin investment. I have separated everything and I will not try to reduce the amount of Bitcoin if it is not in urgent conditions.

Sure one of the dilemmas of starting early in any investment - especially volatile ones like bitcoin - is that if the BTC price largely continues to go up, then you likely would have had been way better to leverage buy at a way earlier time and then ride it out for one cycle or more - however, one of the problems of leverage buying is that you might have had leveraged at a time in which the BTC price was way higher and then you end up losing a lot of opportunity costs, that could even last 3 years or longer, to wait out for the BTC price to get back to the price that it was when you entered into the leverage buy.

So if the BTC price is tending to go up, then many times, it is going to be higher after a whole cycle.. even though we did also have a bit of a quirk when the BTC prices spent around 9 months from June 2022 to March 2023 touching upon or even plenty of time below the 2017 market high of $19,666... which caused a lot of pundits to suggest that it might not have had been valuable to be buying BTC in the past 4.5 years based on BTC prices not then sufficiently appreciated higher than they had been in late 2017.

Even if some of those ideas would have had been technically true for anyone who might have had spot price bought bitcoin in late as a kind of lump sum investment; however, surely some of those impressions are misleading in terms of the overall value of BTC as an investment, even if there might have been a start to buying BTC near the peak of BTC price performance in late 2017.  

Just a straight forward DCA strategy into BTC buying $100 per week since about the top of the 2017 price rise would have resulted in around $30k invested and 2.6708 BTC accumulated. Of course if you do not make enough money to stack $100 per week, you can still figure out how much you would have had been able to stack during that time, and still be in profits.. and part of my point is that there are quite a few advantages of stacking BTC over time rathe than lump sum investing.. especially since many people (and probably especially poor people) could not even gather up funds for lump sum investing anyhow, so the real only meaningful and practical way to build a BTC position is to do it over time and to try to manage it into whatever extra cashflow that they are able to put together and to be able to thereafter put that value into BTC for the longer term and to let the ongoing investment to ride out and hopefully build in value and to compound upon itself, even if it might take 20-30 years or more to really see a lot of meaningful life changing value in their investment into bitcoin, and even though there are no guarantees that a bitcoin investment will end up paying off, it seems that investing into bitcoin is still amongst the best (if not the best?) option available to normal people, aka normies, aka poor people, aka not rich people.


I doesn't seem to be a waste of time to look at the data.. even if there are likely several flaws in the comparisons and the ways that different countries collect (or fail to collect) their data.. even discussing the various ways that the data is flawed might create various talking points in regards to the extent that any individual believes that s/he is able to earn beyond the minimum wage - or if regular folks are actually living off of (or paid in something close to the minimum wage - or perhaps many folks are earning a amount that differs from the minimum wage).

Of course, people make tradeoffs in terms of whether they invest into their education, job skills or various other investments (including bitcoin) that they can make after they have paid for their various living expenses.  I am largely with you in terms of the value to try to invest into things that are going to give life time earning power, so it might not be a good idea to invest money into bitcoin that could otherwise increase your life long abilities to earn on a regular basis and then from those extra earnings it might be good to invest into something like bitcoin, but sure people can choose to continue to roll over their extra income into themselves so that they might not ever be able to justify investing into bitcoin based on their still having decent bang for the buck in terms of various ways that they are figuring out how to invest into themselves and to otherwise increase (or secure) their earning power that would be above minimum wage (hopefully magnitudes above minimum wage - but then if the income is magnitudes above minimum wage, then there would be some justifications to put some (if not all) of that extra into investing into bitcoin... bitcoin is a good competitive investment, even though you are correct that investing into yourself might actually have more concrete and better payoffs that last over a lifetime and might well be harder to lose, too.


Fucking around with trading/gambling/altcoins is likely not going to be valuable uses of time - even though I can recognize and appreciate how some people are going to be attracted to figuring out ways that they might be able to earn money on line if they are having difficulties earning money through normal channels that are available in their country.

I am now caught up with this thread... and maybe most things in relation to this topic have already been said or starting to repeat?  I know that I am starting to repeat, but hey, I say a lot of similar things, and maybe it does not even matter what the topic of the thread is, even though I am trying to "relate" to a feasible extent.


I think that you got the first part right, but the second part is more difficult in terms of individual actions.

The first part you are talking about taking individual actions in order to try to improve yourself and your situation based on various conditions that exist.  

In the second part, you are assessing that it is "equally important" that we try to change society.. and surely there is nothing wrong  with trying to work to change society, but I doubt that it is "equally important" as trying to figure out ways to locate and work towards taking advantage of areas that you personally are able identify in order to make sure that you are able to make your life better.

Sure people sacrifice aspects of their lives for the greater good.. so I am not really going to disparage those kinds of behaviors, but if you want to try to improve your situation, it is not necessarily taking away from others when you focus on those kinds of behaviors - even bitcoin is designed around pursuing self interests, and even presuming that if we pursue self-interests then the bitcoin system becomes stronger.

Don't get me wrong because I am not sure if bitcoin solves all problems, especially when it comes to the existence of various public goods and even the role of government to protect various aspects of the common good.... but at least when we are referring to the various monetary aspects of potentially removing governments (and even private bodies) from manipulating monetary systems, bitcoin fixes a lot of those things - and as individuals, once we recognize that bitcoin fixes a lot of monetary problems, then it seems to be to our advantage to figure out ways that we invest our time, energies and finances into such a system that is likely going to continue to grow and to fix a lot of monetary mis-incentives that are in society - even though bitcoin does not likely resolve all of those problems.. but we still have individual choices regarding whether or how much of our time, energies and finances to invest into bitcoin and bitcoin-related systems.


Also there is no choice, for anyone who wants to get price exposure to BTC, then it seems better to start investing sooner rather than later, and if you cannot invest because you do not have any money or you do not sufficiently know how much money that you have available because you have not sufficiently figured out your personal finances, then it seems better to get started into getting your shit in order so that you are able to start to accumulate bitcoin sooner rather than later, and even if you might receive payoffs for being sufficiently aggressive in regards to bitcoin accumulation, there is no need to be overaggressive or to get greedy and to gamble.  in other words, a persistent, prudent and reasonably ongoingly aggressive BTC accumulation strategies is still likely to give a lot more options than to delay such strategies, even if it might take you 30 years to accumulate .01 BTC.. but then in 30 years, 0.01BTC may well be worth in the ballpark of $100k..so even if you are accumulating less and less BTC, even $10 per week could end up paying off stupendously... which would be $520 per year, which would be $5,200 every 10 years, which would be $15,600 invested in 30 years... and so even if you are investing $10 per week now, maybe your cashflow will go up in the future too.

The forum motivates, I also feel it myself. I had certain thoughts about bitcoin, but I could not structure them, everything was somehow chaotic. But when you communicate here with like-minded people, especially with those who have already passed this path before you, it helps to understand how to act correctly.

This makes it possible to build a certain strategy, understanding how to act in different situations. Of course, this will not always give an exact "recipe for success", but when you have a plan of action, everything becomes much clearer and more understandable. And the forum also helps me to increase the amount of bitcoin in my wallet, I don't know if there is another place with this kind of opportunity.

I can relate to your situation EarnOnVictor - because in late 2013, when I started to buy bitcoin, I started pretty close to the top of the 2013 price rise, so when I started buying BTC, I had set some accumulation goals for myself, and by the end of 2014, I had far exceeded the BTC accumulation goals that I set for myself - even though my BTC largely remained in the negative for the next year, I was quite content that I had managed to accumulate more BTC than I thought that I was going to be able to.

Another thing is that for a large part of 2015, when I largely had run out of extra cashflow, I recall that there were some moments in which I would come across some extra cashflow, even small amounts like $20 or $50, and when that extra cashflow came in, then i would split it in half and buy half with bitcoin, and sometimes the purchase amounts were very small, so if I split the $50 in half and I bought $25 worth of bitcoin, in many times during 2015, that would have gotten me right around 0.1 BTC..since the BTC price was in the mid to lower $200s for most of that year - at least until about October/November when there was a price surge up to $500, and part of the emotional issues of being new to an asset, such as bitcoin, sometimes you will get nervous and not really know what to do - so for me, in October/November 2015, I ended up kind of panicking when the BTC price was shooting up from $300-ish to $500-ish in a very short time, and I started to believe that I was not going to be able to buy BTC below my average cost per BTC (which was then in the lower $500s), and I ended up panic buying towards the top of that price run with whatever cash I had been saving up and holding in reserves during that year... and that cash was supposed to be used for buying on dips, and I ended up blowing it around nearly $500 per BTC and having to wait around 6 months before those panic BTC purchases got back into break-even and/or profitability.


I agree that bitcoin is such an assymetric bet to the ujpside that you do not need to leverage in order to have the potential of profiting stupendously by being able to either lose 100% or potentially multiply the amount that you invested.

So frequently I suggest that it is good to be aggressive but not overly aggressive, so sometimes people do not know what it means to be sufficiently aggressive without being overly aggressive, and taking out loans and relying upon your BTC returns may well be overly aggressive, but if your income allows you to be able to invest $100 per week, you are not being overly aggressive by doing that.. as long as you otherwise have your expenses under control, including having emergency funds sufficiently available. .so sometimes, you might calculate that you can invest $100 per week, but it might well be better for you to only invest $50 per week, until you get a better grasp on your finances and to maybe stack to the side the other $50 and let it build up.. so that you have it available in case you need it... but if you already have a few thousand set aside for your possible emergency fund that could support you for a few months, then maybe you do not need more money in your emergency fund and you can invest the whole amount of your discretionary cashflow amount (referring to the $100 per week).

I agree with your other point too.. is that once you are in bitcoin, you don't want to be put into a position that you have to sell your bitcoin at any time other than a time that is completely of your own choosing.. so if you have some shit hit the fan situations going on in your life, you need to have some resources that you can draw from, and not from your bitcoin, and sometimes, people might get nervous because they have several thousand dollars sitting in accounts that are not earning much if any interest, so they feel that their money is not working, but if shit hits the fan, it is way better to be able to draw from that cash rather than having to dip into your bitcoin at a time that you do not choose including that you may well want to create a situation in which you do not have to draw into your bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer and even in the beginning years if you do draw into your bitcoin, then it is a spend and replace situation in which you are pretty much buying your bitcoin back within a few days (if not within a few hours) of the time that you had sold (transacted in) them for whatever reason...

and sure sometimes if you have some trading accounts set up, and you might find a situation in which you ended up spending $200 on some kind of a bitocoin transaction, and the BTC price is $29,200-ish.     You could set a couple of orders to buy back $100 at $29k and at $28.8k., and you might or might not consider whether you are being too greedy to buy back at a discount, and those are discretionary calls that you can make depending on other ways that you might be managing your BTC stash, including how heavily you might consider yourself to be in a DCA accumulation phase or if you might have already been stacking BTC for several years (your forum registration date is similar to mine bitLeap, so it is possible that you have been stacking sats for a while, so you may well have more flexibilities in regards to how urgent you believe it is to replace any BTC that you might have sold, as compared to someone who might be in their first year of stacking BTC and feeling that they need to be more persistent in terms of stacking and replacing any BTC that they might have sold).  For my first few years in bitcoin, I was frequently nervous about making sure that I replaced in a fairly short period of time of my selling; however, as I had been in BTC longer, I have been willing to set up extra buy orders and even remove some of my sell orders in order to other wise just let the BTC price come to me rather than rushing any replacement of the BTC that I had sold. 

Indeed the forum is a great place to learn and I must admit before now I wasn't much of the economic discussion type since I always feel I have nothing to offer but ever since I started my surf and research here about  bitcoin I have become so open to many ways in which I can become a successful bitcoin investor and believe me learning from other people mistake can be the best thing that could happen to you because you will have all the tools to successful make your own pathway successful and this is exactly what the forum has been doing to my knowledge on various fields that covers not only crypto (BTC) but also other ways of life.

First time I saw this thread, interesting way of displaying the data, which is basically just a list of global minimum wages sorted by highest first. This is what comes to mind when I see it in terms of the numbers of days:

3-digits: I would like to live there if I had enough money.
4-digits: I would like to vacation there.
5-digits: You couldn't pay me to go there.
6-digits: There must be a war going on.
Venezuela: WTF


Yes but you know the wage law isn't very well enforced... I know people who get paid far less than that. Some only make ₱2000 per month, which is currently $36.38.

Yes, of course, I know that very well. We can actually expound this discussion a bit to include certain discrepancies and other harsh realities on the ground, but since OP is simply talking about the minimum wage, then those are the official numbers. This discussion is, after all, basically theoretical.

You've been in the country for quite a while. You must have observed how laws and policies here are oftentimes mere hollow letters.

 
Best way to describe things, went through the list again to see if maybe some tropical paradise is there that is flooded by tourists despite the overall look of the country but I couldn't find one, so indeed 4 digits it is.


Of course, it's purely theoretical, nobody living on a minimum wage will ever be able to get a full Bitcoin unless he's forced to do so by some rich parents who will then write him a check of a few million. If some poor guy in India is clutching his pockets as much as he can he will still not be able to put more than 25% on the side even going through even more sacrifices, thus needing a few more lives to finally get one BTC.

The thing is I got tired of the normal stuff and tried something else, and, I have a better idea, I won't be able to make the data so it will be community driven but it will be way funnier, and from my point of view more interesting that talking all day about DCA, ETF when and such stuff.