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Topic: If someone can sign a message with genesis？ (Read 401 times)

itsmyfirstaccount (OP)

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If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 01:18:45 AM

As the title?

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Thx!

larry_vw_1955

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 01:27:54 AM

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 01:18:45 AM

As the title?

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Thx!

how are they going to sign a message if they dont have the private key?

hd49728

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 02:19:35 AM

Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4), pooya87 (2), ABCbits (2)

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 01:18:45 AM

As the title?

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Thx!

Not sure. Not enough.

Because it is true that "Not your keys, not your bitcoins" but private keys can be stolen and we can not be sure that the person signs a message from Satoshi Nakamoto's private key is actually Satoshi Nakamoto or hackers.

To prove it is Satoshi Nakamoto, there are more things to be provided, signing a message from PGP key, then coding style and more.

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pooya87

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 04:48:26 AM

Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4), ABCbits (2)

You should also know that a message signed from a key to prove ownership has to be specific. For example the message must contain a date and the purpose. For example something like "I pooya87 prove I own this key on 2023-12-15". This way if someone else tries to fool others with this message in the future, they won't be able to because it contains my username and date.
But if the message were something like "Hi, I'm pooya87", it could be used by anybody else and at any time to pretend they own that key.

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adaseb

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 05:19:54 AM

From what I understand, for some reason you cant spend any of the bitcoins in the genesis block. However I dont know if it means you also cant sign and verify a message.

If you can then obviously it would prove he is satoshi but it can be any of the early blocks pretty much that he can sign and verify. However that will never happen. He disappeared 13 years ago and I dont think he will ever surface again.

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garlonicon

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 05:38:08 AM

Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4), ABCbits (3), seoincorporation (1)

Quote

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Definitely not.

Quote

how are they going to sign a message if they dont have the private key?

Code:

message="Hello World"
address="1psPJZYEJrjPtY6kw5Tqtj4mW2yXSSDuH"
signature="GwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAE="

Does it mean that I know the private key to 1psPJZYEJrjPtY6kw5Tqtj4mW2yXSSDuH? Of course not. Nobody knows that private key. But you can verify that message, and it will be valid.

Quote

However I dont know if it means you also cant sign and verify a message.

You can sign and verify messages from that key. But you have to follow the verification procedure in every single step, to not be fooled by tricks like the above. Or tricks like below, where r,s,z values are valid, but where z-value is simply random, and there is no known message, that can be hashed into that:

Code:

fake_signatures.py 04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5f
981c008269574d9bb73a2e781270e2163297b3d3ca9645b5e0664ffcbb19e78a,3cc2a888bae4811e75e64e19f2ce668951a3520e93e31a74b4cd4e9ce9508839,ed97aea4f9b66aca0c41ac88c2f0d90ef2ad269af0951ba2b07c70f7d1542b3c
53b9632a4250eb518426a545daa99fc6a72addfcb62714fbe81e269cd9ee39e8,62cbe3cc5eec2cbcbf61793a1d94414b43536c0e9219da703be5f141c46fa364,166db19e268d41b8cb76eedb50c57969635bcce2218b1921df45656a24de751a
a050e9237241c02d17684df9b9039fd707fcecb2fbd9d46af95dfeb6ef1daaa3,5e3bd1a08a7418066e4231adbfa23cc969617bb67f35a5f9a4d1ebae9a196fc7,a20a81207eb5aa382759debfc3ca98d4a3cf85474c9dbb6684dbd5bae3abe58d
9f2e42881a9cd3ddd088ebc77857beb9929c42e76e3b3ab7d1928652d2b731cf,0a4353b1fe7c167d63eaa45aeb23f83d219fd31ca74a17adc84cb18bc3184833,32a9cacbb64e5679eb40dfca1192bccc3db0e19d63d1e68286fe119d7d494c8a
a46f5889983efb70e00927f5afeeb2c4042783ca36525968657e339416a6bd8d,185c697570158909298fb10019d7a3e62ed647e9a6ecd1992f3d3098a498eec9,dcd110dd05f2ef9bb46639b0abe858a545bc61f1cd0e5462f41e7003d5f68bba
8ca48464e4dd3789ec41b83827b93e840471cfce2c8e6349e4087f56c335991f,6fb96292e9a2e5480085d9b8f69bd6aa62cee3b76b090cd5d5e25f8ce253adea,b6b20ab75d2ad6e8e79fe3fdc9e28a66e2a6acecfe87a7f33cb5c3fba1d070d3

crwth

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 05:38:45 AM

Is there any reason why you are talking about this one? Or you are just curious about "IF" you can do it. If we are talking about the general way, it could be done right if it's with the same software? It should be just like any other wallet functions, so signing and verifying would be okay.

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Husires

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 07:32:00 AM

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 01:18:45 AM

As the title?

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Thx!

Believe me, if Satoshi returns, he will be the talk of the hour and you will find everyone trying to verify his identity, so all you have to do is search here.
The message is signed with the private key. Anyone who has access to the private key can sign the message. Therefore, you must maintain the security of your private key and sign the message in a form that cannot be used in the future by mentioning the name, the date, the purpose of the message, the validity of the message, and then any change in The wording of the message with even one comma will make the resulting signature being incorrect.

EluguHcman

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 08:21:43 AM

In a general term, until it is realistically proven, it is never real.
Possibly a fast finger personel could come up with the inscribe "@satoshi" social handles in the internet, builds an influence and still gets verified while the expected Satoshi Nakamoto keep to remain anonymous and off the social handles. Remember anyone is liable to bear that handle "Satoshi".
So, it is not worth believing it is what is expected @ OP

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adultcrypto

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 08:36:34 AM

#10

Quote from: pooya87 on December 15, 2023, 04:48:26 AM

This make me wonderful how Satoshi will be able to prove himself should he decide to come out from anonymity. In several discussions in this forum, people gave their views on how he could prove himself with majority supporting signing a message from one of his Bitcoin wallets. This reality that someone can actually claim that message make the whole thing complicated.

Anyways, I doubt Satoshi is coming back to prove anything, it is not necessary because Bitcoin has evolved and made name for itself.

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itsmyfirstaccount (OP)

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

#11

He has a private group, a very small group .

Before 2020,its free to join. It was free but you need to prove you have 100+ bitcoins on hand.

The groups website(a ugly but powerful forum

)changes yearly,only people who has 100+ bitcoins will be notified.

Of course,No one has his charisma.to prove he is him,he will sign a message with time,new url,latest block hash

That is why I asked you for this topic.

Anyone know a professional way to sign and verify a message?

seoincorporation

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 11:21:40 PM

#12

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 01:18:45 AM

As the title?

Can I be sure its from Satoshi?

Thx!

No you can't be sure, because there could be the scenario where someone finds that private key. Let me explain, there are a lot of users right now doing brutforce to the bitcoin private keys, someones do it to solve "the bitcoin puzzle", some others attack targeting the address with balance, and some others are just trying to fin a collision (2 different private keys for the same address, so, if any of them find by mistake the PK of the address on the genesis transaction, that doesn't mean he is satoshi.

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 11:22:17 PM

#13

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

Anyone know a professional way to sign and verify a message?

How to sign a message?!

To verify signed in message you can 👇🏾👇🏾

Quote from: Minase on January 18, 2023, 11:48:20 AM

you can use this tool, it's open source
https://rawcdn.githack.com/nlitsme/bitcoinexplainer/aa50e86e8c72c04a7986f5f7c43bc2f98df94107/ecdsacrack.html

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hatshepsut93

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 15, 2023, 11:59:19 PM

#14

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

He has a private group, a very small group .

This is obviously a scam, you can forget about that group. Just think logically for a second, why would the real Satoshi make such group? To give trading tips or double your Bitcoin?

Lots of scammers, Craig Wright being the biggest of them, try to use Satoshi's name to gain trust of newbies. So be extremely suspicious and trust the veteran forum users if you can't judge for yourself.

Fundamentals Of

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 16, 2023, 01:04:15 AM

#15

At this point nothing is sure anymore. Satoshi has long abandoned Bitcoin and has already "moved on to other things". He has already left it to the community. It has been more than a decade since Satoshi has left. Somebody else could have gained access to those private keys. So signing from an address in the genesis block can only prove that there is somebody who has got those keys. Whether that's the real Satoshi or not is not decisively proven though.

Right now, it takes a hundred of things to prove that you're indeed Satoshi, which makes any claim pointless. Any claim, even if it's coming from the real Satoshi himself, will have to address so many doubts.

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 16, 2023, 09:10:23 AM

#16

Satoshi has long abandoned Bitcoin and has already "moved on to other things".

What Would be the rational reason for Satoshi not to be interested in Bitcoin today?

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 16, 2023, 10:48:44 AM

#17

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

He has a private group, a very small group .

You mean Satoshi has a private group? AFAIK, he doesn't have it and he's total anonymous so how he could have a small group. If there's a group that he's left, it's this forum.

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

Before 2020,its free to join.

He's gone more than a decade ago and check his profile account to see on how long he's abandoned his account: satoshi
Whoever is the owner of that group, he's not satoshi and will never ever prove that he owns a thing or two. How come that people on that group have 100+ bitcoins then doesn't know that satoshi will never be back?

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itsmyfirstaccount (OP)

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 17, 2023, 08:53:05 PM

#18

Quote from: bhadz on December 16, 2023, 10:48:44 AM

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

He has a private group, a very small group .

You mean Satoshi has a private group? AFAIK, he doesn't have it and he's total anonymous so how he could have a small group. If there's a group that he's left, it's this forum.

In the small group , no KYC is needed. and to be one of them just proving that you have 100+ bitcoin on hand.

Quote from: bhadz on December 16, 2023, 10:48:44 AM

He's gone more than a decade ago and check his profile account to see on how long he's abandoned his account: satoshi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3)
Whoever is the owner of that group, he's not satoshi and will never ever prove that he owns a thing or two. How come that people on that group have 100+ bitcoins then doesn't know that satoshi will never be back?

Gone? That's your personal view he is still online .

the profile is not him, it is just a early user.

bhadz

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 18, 2023, 09:22:14 PM

#19

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 17, 2023, 08:53:05 PM

Quote from: bhadz on December 16, 2023, 10:48:44 AM

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 15, 2023, 06:37:53 PM

He has a private group, a very small group .

You mean Satoshi has a private group? AFAIK, he doesn't have it and he's total anonymous so how he could have a small group. If there's a group that he's left, it's this forum.

In the small group , no KYC is needed. and to be one of them just proving that you have 100+ bitcoin on hand.

Then, you must be one of the folks that are holding 100+BTC.

Quote from: itsmyfirstaccount on December 17, 2023, 08:53:05 PM

Quote from: bhadz on December 16, 2023, 10:48:44 AM

Gone? That's your personal view he is still online .

the profile is not him, it is just a early user.

Yep, he's gone too long now. And you don't believe that it's the real satoshi who owned that account? It was satoshi and he was an early user here because he founded the forum. You don't believe me? Read the posts that he made and it's all about technicalities about Bitcoin and the developments that he'd made about it interacting with other forum members also.

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dothebeats

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Re: If someone can sign a message with genesis？

December 18, 2023, 09:49:55 PM

#20

You can't be too sure. There is a possibility that other people might have gained access to those keys all these years. We are seeing some addresses that remained dormant for a long time that moved their coins recently, and there is no way for us to confirm whether they are the same people who mined and kept them all throughout this time.

It's also worth noting that satoshi's email was once hacked and compromised. There is no limits to the possibilities here, and you can never be too sure if you are still directly speaking with satoshi even with a signed message from addresses that received the first bitcoins with a lot of hacks going on these days.

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