spacer.   edit need to remove the [banned mixer] in that image. give me a minute

I sent 53 usd worth of btc for next to nothing look below

spacer I will test my kraken exchange next.

first of all those coins are not in YOUR SELF CUSTODY
but they are in a custodians(nicehash/channel partner) custody

so dont use the word "non custody" as it confuses people to think the funds are not in a custodians control
EG blockchain.info wallet is non custody because they do own own the private keys
however nicehasn controls the private keys of the locked balance.. see the difference

use the term "non-self custody" there is a difference

also YOU dont empty wallet. you request THEY close their channel to onchain settle debt with you. or you request to use their credit to you via other routes to spend your owed credit

but they way your wrote your advert of nicehash is as if you are in control and they dont have custody. when you used particular buzzwords

EG
"i empty wallet" should be "i request close session/withdrawal"
"so my balance" should be "so balance owed to me"
"non custody" should be "non self custody"
"you have funds there" " they have funds credited to you"

you wrote too many "i" and "my" and hinted there was no custodian.. when actually there is a custodian and that custodian is not you, you have no control

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first of all
the coins in your LN channel are limited to how much your channel locked and how much you already spent to then have "credit" to then get returned
the coins in your LN partner has locked is limited to their outbound(your inbound) balance

secondly
your channel with nicehash is not owing nicehash anything so they cant reimburse you 0.00128 to then free up your balance for you to be "non custodial" of the 0.00128014..
however you have inbound balance(unsettled so not yours) from nicehash's channel with you, whom commits to owing you balance and you can request using that balance be sent around their route to pay for some giftcard.
soo those funds are still in nicehash lock.. meaning they are in custody of it

think about it..
bi directional channels

philipma 0.001-> nicehash 0
                       -> philipma 0.00050000 (minus 0.0005 for fee to close session eventually)
^your channel you set up to be on LN ^ you own nobody anything and you have control of your funds, minus close session (onchain fee)

nicehashpool 6.25 -> nicehash00 0.05                   nicehash3B 0.05  -> philipma1957 0.00128014
                           -> nicehash01 0.05                                             -> nicehashpool  0.04821986 (minus 0.0005 for closing fee)
                           -> nicehash02 0.05
                           -> ....
                           -> nicehash7D 0.05
^their channels they set up to be on LN ^ they owe you 0.00128014


they have balance in their control OWING you which you then request they take back if they use another channel they have to pay cygan what they owe you
so your owed funds are in THEIR custody but you then spent that credit to buy giftcard

it would only be YOUR custody if you put your value into your keys and then you spent the balance, to a partner.. for them to return balance to you
or if from your other channels you already spent with to someone else previously, and they routed payment via that owed receiver so that you are reimbursed via them to the allow you to have free'd up balance/funds in your channel
but those coins in your channel are not mined coins but routed coins returned/re allocated back into your 'change address'

learn how routes, inbound/outbound balance, routes and channels work.

At dkbit98 too hard or difficult.

I want this to be easy peasy.

You get LN access with no work so to speak.

This is what the thread is about.


How about trying non-custodial Lightning Node running on your mobile device with Breez Mobile wallet?
When you first open wallet it does say it's a beta software and there is a risk of losing funds, but I saw something like this is also being worked by Bitbox hardware wallet.
https://breez.technology/
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bringing-lightning-to-the-bitboxapp/

Please use this at your own risk, easy way is not always the best way Wink

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Fair point  I will alter that.

but I would like to think that this statement is fairly clear:

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so all funds in kraken are subject to kraken's control. they could be frozen or stolen.
not in my custody I do not have the keys so I call this a none custody account.


So next is using kraken.com I am usa based. I am allowed to use them and have done full KYC with them.

I keep low funds with them under $1000 at all times.

Here is a set of screen shots done as I attempted to withdraw from kraken into nicehash.

via LN.








[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

as you can see on kraken it is somewhat harder than nice hash fourth,fifth,sixth, seven pages and funds are not moved at all

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At this point I stopped as I got distracted by “real” life.

My dementia suffering bro-in-law causing issues I watch him on ring as I type and he is on the phone with a  scammer .  I will be back later.

I did the withdrawal and it did  appear in the nicehash wallet


I moved 0.0015 from kraken to nicehash at a low cost of 0.00000014


screen shots tomorrow


nicehash has a 1.5 btc max limit

not sure what kraken has.


nicehash is easier to send LN

will show screen shots of this in the morning as it takes time to edit them a bit.



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

and it has begun
all the LN affiliate marketers promoting LN promising fees below 1sat "coz LN does balance in non bitcoin accepting msat"
are now showing their real end goal. force bitcoin fee's up so they can push LN fee's up

gone are the days of 0.0000000000001 fee's and already LN users are being charged multiple sats per payment
soon enough they will become 1% of payment amount

all for the simple fact that corporations couldnt take middlemen fee's from bitcoin., they did try "nodes should be paid for being nodes"
 so they made another network to take middlemen fee's using the bait and switch game of "cheaper then bitcoin"

if you care to wonder why fee's on bitcoin are high, look at the corporations and their idiot advertisers that dont own asics or mining pools but keep shouting that bitcoin needs to pay higher fee's. look how they try to promote that people should give up using bitcoin and try their other network locking them into staying live on another network for months but having bitcoin fee's to expensive to ever settle up and actually never own btc

1. those altcoins have been round for years. dont blame them for the latest promotions trying to trigger people to move over to LN
2. asic miners dont choose fee's they just hash.. they care more for market price to deflate to be worth more fiat per coin.. the fee is not the subsidy its just a side bonus
5 governments are not causing bitcoin fee mania

every time there is a halving IDIOTS!!! think its tim to pay stupid excess fee's to pools
pools ran fine when the market was at $17k per coin. working fine at $34k per coin and working fine at $42k+ per coin. all while the reward is still 6.25btc.. so dont blame the halving either

when the halving happens the fiat market price takes care of it. we dont need to worry abut fee income for many more halvings

the real reasons for wanting high fees is the silly idiots that cant make money using bitcoin the traditional way o have to scam their way into taking middlemen fee's promoting crappy stuff as the next big thing

What about using muun for the LN wallet? https://muun.com/
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com

No KYC or anything else.

-Dave

Congrats on learning to use the lightning network.  It is currently Bitcoin's best scaling layer.  And it works fairly well nowadays.  Here are some small tips.

1.  Several have mentioned Breez.  You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone).  Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far.  You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.

2.  If you have a need to trade into or out of BTC/lightning/Liquid this is a good little non custodial exchange with great prices:  https://boltz.exchange/

3.  Wallet of Satoshi.  It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address.  Mine is cleanlisa67@walletofsatoshi.com.  Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email.

4.  coinos.io (and classic.coinos.io)  are great online custodial wallets with the ability to change from LN/BTC/Liquid.


Best of luck experimemting with lightning.  It is the future.  Don;t listen to franky, he is always mad.

I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.