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Topic: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin (Read 604 times)

Odusko

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 20, 2024, 06:00:53 PM

#21

Quote from: passwordnow on July 20, 2024, 04:37:10 AM

It does makes sense that government intervention and any leader that would say good or bad about Bitcoin or even the FEDs, the price reactions real time. But there were some moments that it's not like that but let's stick to that as we have no control over that. The thing here is that, things like this is inevitable. Maybe even satoshi have foreseen this and knew it that if it becomes successful, the government will also play a huge role to it. I remember several years ago when Bitcoin is compared to payment processors like PayPal and now, they're part of the game and they've joined through adopting Bitcoin and not just them, also the other payment processors. Anyway, whoever is gonna be the leader, Bitcoin will continue to thrive and if there will be some cracking down related to it or laws that will be against it for which did happened already in the past, Bitcoin has proved its worth and the community that it has got.

Why there is always volitility on bitcoin price and value is because of things like this thatake bitcoin volitility inevitable, and even Satoshi himself know about this that is why he stated that whatever happens on the price of bitcoin, bitcoin community should support the network and let it grow organically, with that statement, Satoshi already admitted the presence of attacks, funds and news, be it political or institutional, because sometimes we have events that also affect the price and market of bitcoin that is not related to anything politics such incidents like the FTX crash were bankruptcy forced the excahge to close on investors with money held in there until now.
If you are experience in this market you will already know all this thing's and how to protect yourself through the ups and down that comes along with Bitcoin and it network, although not only bitcoin but all cryptocurrency coins are all subject to this crisis directly or indirectly it impact on their prices, let hope that we build more confidence in the market as time goes on and be able to admit to the fact that we can never eradicate such volitility situation in bitcoin.
One thing that we have to know also is that, bitcoin is decentralised and it almost impossible to regulate or control it, but bitcoin services such as payment processing company and excahges that have liscense from the government most comply with leaders cryptocurrency regulation rules

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 20, 2024, 09:13:47 PM

#22

Quote from: Odusko on July 20, 2024, 06:00:53 PM

Quote from: passwordnow on July 20, 2024, 04:37:10 AM

Bitcoin is nuts. Always had been and always will be. Satoshi, he understood that throughout creation. He understood this would be a rollercoaster. Still, that is part of its charm. Its independence. None of any government or bank controls it. Now, certainly, such freedom implies ups and downs. We discovered this with FTX; it was a big bummer. Still, we need to be wise. We need to realize this is how things operate. When the price declines, we cannot get afraid. We have to hang on and have trust.

Bitcoin, its got staying power. Its got potential. But it calls for us. The community is what will help it to be supported and believed in. So lets not focus on the volatility. Lets start with the future. Let us concentrate on strengthening and increasing resilience of our network. Thats our winning strategy. We thereby enable Bitcoin to be the success it was always supposed to be.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 20, 2024, 09:42:18 PM

#23

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 06:07:38 PM

1. Bitcoin absolutely could be taken over by a major world government forcibly.

The question here is how, is this possible, no, i don't think so, bitcoin is a decentralized digital government, even the whales who were the giant investors of bitcoin could not afford to take over the possession of bitcoin, everyone is only working towards his own path for better achievements with bitcoin as an alternative to what the government regulates and control over the world financial system.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 20, 2024, 10:22:33 PM

#24

Quote from: Obim34 on July 19, 2024, 10:28:18 PM

Quote from: letteredhub on July 19, 2024, 09:55:56 PM

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 06:07:38 PM

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

There is nothing much to debate here about this because no bitcoiner will be making a call on the government to take charge of bitcoin in terms of having access to it's price regulation. What I think bitcoin investors are clamouring for is for governments that could make for a friendly environment for bitcoin event's and activities to thrive and not creating policies that acts as constraint to bitcoin advancement (adoption). And if you think there's any other reason outside this as to why the bitcoin community seem to be giving Trump the large support then you getting it all wrong.

Just like you said, the motive as to why a lot of consideration is going on in the case of Trump emerging as the winner for the upcoming election is for the fact that he has quite the interest to allow the public have free access and public relations with Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies, without condemning it. He might not be part of Bitcoin and neither is he a rival, everyone would be allowed to pertake in the Bitcoin journey without having to fight the government.

considering how the bitcoin ecosystem has evolved over the years there be some certain institutions with an interest to join the digital train but as a result of the government policies in that society they get cold about the interest not to act or be like an enemy to the government. but even with a government that is not interest in bitcoin but don't don't create restrictions for others its easier to have more adopters that way thereby boosting the market in many ways. It is for this considerations that bitcoiners are vetting for trump, people wants an open market where the government wouldn't be a pain in their ass, and they believe trump is that candidate whose manifesto adjust to that view. Nothing more.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 20, 2024, 10:50:12 PM

#25

Quote from: Dunamisx on July 20, 2024, 09:42:18 PM

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 06:07:38 PM

1. Bitcoin absolutely could be taken over by a major world government forcibly.

There are two companies that control more than 51% of the Bitcoin hashrate. Those two companies could either be compelled by a government or taken over in a clandestine way. I don't want to discuss this all over again in this thread, so please read the thread that was linked here.

The short answer is: yes, Bitcoin could be taken over by a major government. The other irony here is that the primary barrier to that happening is... the United States government, who would use its power to stop whatever state actor tried this. But if it was the US itself, then taking over the network would a simple matter of passing a law in Congress, or even a simple executive order by the president.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 04:25:00 AM

#26

Quote from: legiteum on July 20, 2024, 01:56:40 PM

Quote from: Iranus on July 20, 2024, 08:30:25 AM

I know you're a Biden supporter and you're disappointed to see the majority of people starting to turn to Trump. I guess that's why this thread was created but there's also no way you can stop people from supporting Trump.

Sure, and you are a Trump supporter, and I respect your political opinion. As for the polling, 538 has the race as a toss up right now, and they take a broad averaging of the polls. Trump is in the spotlight right now because of his being shot and the Republican convention, but the Democrats will have their time in the media in a few weeks as well--this is how US elections always work.

This election is about Americans deciding whether abortion will be illegal or not. If the majority wants abortion to be illegal, then Trump will win. If they don't, Biden will win.

I'm not from the United States and whether I support Trump or Biden does not affect the election results, and what I support is the future of cryptocurrency. If Biden really has more open regulations and policies with cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, maybe I will also support him, but with what he has done, I cannot support it. My only concern about this election is the impact on the crypto industry.

Regarding abortion laws, have you seen anyone mention it and even the Democratic Party does not strongly exploit this issue? I think it's ineffective. Furthermore, is it too risky to let an 81-year-old man continue to run the country and the world? The Democratic Party took the wrong step from the start.

I like fair competition and say no to political violence and I think we should stop using the past to judge the future because things can change over time.

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legiteum (OP)

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 04:43:55 AM

#27

Quote from: Iranus on July 21, 2024, 04:25:00 AM

[...] but with what he has done, I cannot support it.

What, specifically, has Biden done, besides:

1. Presided over Bitcoin increasing in price by 500%.

2. Presided over SBF, whose crimes caused Bitcoin to drop by 60%, being imprisoned.

3. Presided over Bitcoin and Ether becoming ETFs, greatly expanding the reach of Bitcoin buyers.

You need to watch something besides Republican-controlled media like Fox News to get the actual facts here. Biden has been very, very good for Bitcoin and crypto generally, whereas Trump promises massive and potentially destructive changes.

Quote

Regarding abortion laws, have you seen anyone mention it and even the Democratic Party does not strongly exploit this issue? I think it's ineffective.

Put it this way, for every voter who will vote purely on the price of Bitcoin and their perception of who will make it go up more, there are about 1,000 American voters who will vote based on abortion being legal or not. Abortion is a very big deal in everybody's lives, and is extremely important to voters on both sides.

Again, I would question where you get your news, because abortion is talked about all of the time in US politics--and this election more than ever before since for the first time Trump could entirely ban the procedure in the USA if he wanted to.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 06:11:01 AM

#28

Quote

1. Bitcoin absolutely could be taken over by a major world government forcibly.

2. Short of an outright takeover of the network, a few words from the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 90% or more, and an act of the US Congress or an executive order by the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 99%.

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

1.Bitcoin is like any other financial asset. Bitcoin isn't some magical otherworldly financial asset, that has superpowers and cannot be seized by any government around the world.
2.Yes, the BTC price can be heavily influenced by public statements made by the US president or by new legislation and regulations. Guess what. This can happen to any other financial asset around the world. Stocks, bonds, commodities, precious metals. Their prices can also be influenced in the short term by public statements, made by the US president or the US congress.
3.I don't think that the BTC community is "begging" anyone to pump the BTC price. The BTC price will be pumped anyway, because the Federal Reserve printing machines goes brrrr... whether you like it or not.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 03:50:56 PM

#29

Quote from: davis196 on July 21, 2024, 06:11:01 AM

3. I don't think that the BTC community is "begging" anyone to pump the BTC price. [...]

Well, I hope you are right, but I fear that you are wrong. All you have to do is look at a few other threads in this forum to see that many in the community welcome governments using their power to artificially pump the price of Bitcoin by either forcing people to accept it or using taxpayer dollars to make massive purchases of Bitcoin.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 04:07:52 PM

#30

Im sure that gov will make btc only worse. Can't understand why people are so happy about it

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 04:33:21 PM

#31

Quote from: passwordnow on July 20, 2024, 04:37:10 AM

It does not take governments to change their stance over the period of time and with the changing adoptions and global regularities, it is not surprising for the authorities to change their point of view.

So if China ban bitcoins or if any other country or a president of the first world countries say any statement which is bad about bitcoin then this may be bad for the market for the short term but in the long term it won't have much impact on the price of bitcoin. Also when they change their point of view then it will be further positive for the markets.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 05:01:25 PM

#32

Quote from: legiteum on July 21, 2024, 04:43:55 AM

Biden is not a saint because his policies have not been encouraging.

1. His government invoked the U.S. Patriot Act that criminalized the use of mixers. This law was proposed by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Unit (FinCEN) where all funds that go through mixers will be suspected to be from money laundering. This law is to attack privacy.

2. Some exchanges were targeted and fined. The government intentionally wanted to make money from exchanges so they indicted some exchanges, restricted their service, and made them pay huge fines.

3. Biden is one of the supporters of digital dollars. He has proposed research and development of CBDC.

4. He also thinks that Bitcoin mining affects the environment and they should be heavily taxed. His government once proposed a 30% tax on electricity consumed by miners.

Bitcoin stands for decentralization and freedom an attack on them is the greatest.

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PrivacyG

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 08:28:17 PM

#33

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 10:50:09 PM

I am simply pointing out that things went well for Bitcoin while Biden was president--to counteract the lies that Republicans say

Lies. You are not simply pointing something out. You are misleadingly pointing out a fact and you know why you are doing it very well. I would not specifically question your posts if you were not cunningly doing this.

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 10:50:09 PM

Honestly, I really don't want to talk about presidential politics and I wish there was no discussion about that here. But 20% of the posts here seem to be from Republicans promoting Trump, so...

So your solution is to point out a fact in bold just to trick the brain of readers into believing Bitcoin did better during Biden than it did during Trump? I see a Biden supporter doing this, then I realize they were trying to mislead me. How am I supposed to become a Democrat this way? I honestly do not get how this is supposed to work.

-----

Before somebody calls me out for being an avid Trump supporter, I am pretty impartial particularly considering I am not a citizen of The United States. But I hate when I see things like this happening and then the same people wondering why the majority appears to be supportive of the opposite Party. So what I do is, I just call out people when something seems off. Such as this guy, who clearly tries a trick that I particularly hate.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 09:09:13 PM

#34

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 21, 2024, 08:28:17 PM

Before somebody calls me out for being an avid Trump supporter, I am pretty impartial particularly considering I am not a citizen of The United States. But I hate when I see things like this happening and then the same people wondering why the majority appears to be supportive of the opposite Party. So what I do is, I just call out people when something seems off. Such as this guy, who clearly tries a trick that I particularly hate.

Bitcoin, in fact, appreciated by 500% under president Biden. There is nothing "misleading" about this. I am not being "cunning". Trump's supporters here keep asserting that Biden has been somehow terrible for Bitcoin, but the actual facts say something completely different.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 21, 2024, 10:10:59 PM

#35

I also think that Bitcoin is created not to be anti-government. As stated it was created to remove their party intermediaries. This means the financial service that prey upon the people charging them with high fees to process their financial transactions. Banks is not the government and so the financial institutions like remittances, payment processors, etc.

Bitcoin is created to have smooth boundless transfers with minimum payment by removing these third-party services, and that is not anti-government. This is also the reason why open-minded government did not outright ban the use of cryptocurrency.

Quote from: legiteum on July 21, 2024, 09:09:13 PM

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 21, 2024, 08:28:17 PM

I believe Bitcoin appreciation is due and the USA president has nothing to do with this increase. If Pres. Biden's term coincides with the time when Bitcoin is in a bear market, then you will be saying the other way around.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 22, 2024, 08:47:21 AM

#36

Quote from: legiteum on July 21, 2024, 04:43:55 AM

Quote from: Iranus on July 21, 2024, 04:25:00 AM

[...] but with what he has done, I cannot support it.

1. No one can stop bitcoin from increasing in price, it is only a matter of time for bitcoin to increase in price once it has accumulated long enough. Like previous bull cycles, bitcoin rose thousands of percent and where was Biden then, do you know?

2. It is inevitable that SBF will go to prison, because for what he has done, if he does not pay the price, the law in the United States will become a pile of trash for criminals. Similar to 2014, the CEO of Mt.gox was also arrested right after the exchange declared bankruptcy.

3. Bitcoin ETF is not new anymore, it was proposed many years ago, but this year the pressure came from large institutions Blackrock...Bitcoin ETF is not new anymore, it was proposed many years ago, but this year the pressure is coming from big institutions Blackrock...so approval is inevitable. If they don't pass it, I believe that when Trump is elected, it will happen even faster.

I watch news from various sources and focus on crypto-related news rather than other news, because those news do not benefit me.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 22, 2024, 11:38:02 AM

#37

Quote from: serjent05 on July 21, 2024, 10:10:59 PM

Will Biden's resignation as a presidential candidate from the Democrats have any effect? I just heard this morning if Biden resigned and endorsed Kamala Harris to become the Democratic nominee. But Kamala Harris' situation was also determined by a poll from the Democratic party. Actually, for some time when I have been following Bitcoin, political issues have always been brought up to tear up the price of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin market in the US is huge, so it's only natural that Trump uses crypto weapons to bring citizens' opinions to believe in Trump. Governments can always make rules, but they can't make Bitcoin centralized. So at the moment it will be unlikely that Bitcoin will be worth zero.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 22, 2024, 01:10:35 PM

#38

Quote from: Iranus on July 22, 2024, 08:47:21 AM

Sam Bankman-Fried caused Bitcoin to drop in price by 60%. And he was just one guy, not connected to any government.

A few choice words by the US president, threatening to make Bitcoin illegal for US residents for instance, for do many times the damage SBF did. Bitcoin's price is based on millions of (mostly American) consumer investors buying Bitcoin. If that goes away, the price goes away.

Quote

2. It is inevitable that SBF will go to prison, because for what he has done, if he does not pay the price, the law in the United States will become a pile of trash for criminals. Similar to 2014, the CEO of Mt.gox was also arrested right after the exchange declared bankruptcy.

Yes, now you see why so many of us oppose Trump: because he frees criminals (including himself) who donate to his campaign, turning the US justice system into a "pile of trash" as you say. And yes, criminals like SBF being freed after they commit their crimes will encourage all kinds of criminals, and turn the purchase of Bitcoin into a suicidally risky activity for investors, which will send the price of Bitcoin into the same pile of trash

Quote

3. Bitcoin ETF is not new anymore, it was proposed many years ago, but this year the pressure came from large institutions Blackrock...Bitcoin ETF is not new anymore, it was proposed many years ago, but this year the pressure is coming from big institutions Blackrock...so approval is inevitable. If they don't pass it, I believe that when Trump is elected, it will happen even faster.

Nothing is "inevitable". Trump could do anything he wants, since he will be accountable to absolutely nobody.

And the ETF was already approved under president Biden and vice-president Harris. There's no such thing as Trump "approving it even harder".

The safe bet here, from the business standpoint, is to maintain stability in the market by voting for Harris, not disrupting the market with massive changes and corruption that Trump brings.

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Re: Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

July 22, 2024, 03:30:40 PM

#39

Quote from: legiteum on July 19, 2024, 06:07:38 PM

1. Bitcoin absolutely could be taken over by a major world government forcibly.

2. Short of an outright takeover of the network, a few words from the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 90% or more, and an act of the US Congress or an executive order by the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 99%.

I want whatever you're smoking.

The best "intervention that a government could do is to destabilize bitcoin's economy by buying sizable amounts of cryptocurrencies and then selling those en masse. Which by then is going to cause a massive stir and would definitely trace the transactions back to them, ending with a massive backlash on their behalf. They could also go the beaten path and ban cryptocurrencies altogether and face the backlash now and hope that the people forget they love bitcoin, but when you have millions held on a stupid wallet that's not gonna happen.

You'll come to realize that bitcoin is as anarchic as you make it out to be. It was indeed made to combat governments and shit, but not so thiefs can steal money and then convert them to cryptocurrencies. Honestly speaking the anonymity aspect is just a byproduct of the fact that it is decentralized but I digress.

I hate preaching bitcoin but it's not as fickle as you think it is. Economically (scalability) speaking it's as strong as a twig but everything else is robust about this coin. Don't get it twisted.

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