I am also conflating personal action and theory, and on an individual level, there is likely a whole hell of a lot of importance in figuring out our own bitcoin allocation in terms of our concerns about present and/or future utility and in light of our own budget and abilities to buy bitcoin as compared with other places that we might choose to put our time, energy and value.

So, why should we give any shits in regards to the extent that some people might be classified as bitcoin maxis or not?  Your desire to distinguish yourself from "bitcoin maxis" seems to show that you still have not figured out the superiority of bitcoin or been able to differentiate that dog from the tail.  

As a hint, the tail does not wag the dog, so it is good to recognize that dynamic in bitcoin, especially if you are going to make sure that you  are personally investing a sufficient amount of time, energy and value into bitcoin rather than getting distracted into irrelevant matters.

Maybe another dynamic is worth highlighting in regards to the increased involvement of larger players in the bitcoin space, including governments, financial institutions and various battles related to self-custody and transacting in bitcoin.  Surely each of us has to figure out the extent to which we might choose to involve ourself in self-custody of bitcoin versus keeping bitcoin on exchanges versus getting involved in bitcoin derivative products, and sure we cannot deny that those products might end up affecting our own choices and even how many options that we might have and the ways that we might transact in bitcoin.

For sure, we cannot completely ignore the various ways that bitcoin is being used based on changes in the players in the space, even though there is likely ongoing value to making sure that we are holding some amount of our value in self-custodian kinds of ways, even though surely there are guys (perhaps including yourself?) who are also getting involved in bitcoin derivative products or otherwise failing/refusing to sufficiently distinguish between self-custody bitcoin and various bitcoin third-party and/or derivative products.


To the extent that it matters, do think that you understand bitcoin better than me?  You proclaimed that you had removed yourself from bitcoin several times in the years, and you seem to be having difficulties distinguishing bitcoin from crypto.

Sure, you can do what you like, and you can prioritize what you like, yet I doubt that there is a whole hell-of-a-lot of value that comes in either getting distracted into shitcoins (or other crypto products) or wanting to convolute a potential bitcoin discussion into crypto (perhaps by denigrating bitcoin maxis and not really understanding the value of bitcoin and/or bitcoin first perspectives).

There surely guys who believe that there might be some value in diversifying their finances and their focus, and surely you can look through quite a few of my posts/threads in which I argue that there tends to be quite a bit of value in focusing on bitcoin first and investing into bitcoin first, so in that regard, finances and focus would be on bitcoin and cash until the holdings are built up to a certain acceptable value such as investing 1-2 years of income (or perhaps expenses) into bitcoin, while at the same time building up back up funds that are kept in cash, so perhaps a deciding factor in diversification may well be the build up in cash rather than the build up in bitcoin, even though surely many times it will take guys quite a long time to build up their networth to even relatively minor levels of 3-6 months or more of their expenses in a combination bitcoin, cash and any other places that they might hold value.

Of course, there is a lot of discretion in terms of how to build wealth that also relates to the extent to which a person might be starting from zero or even starting from low amounts of discretionary income (and of course discretionary funds are needed to invest at all, since if there are no discretionary funds then buying bitcoin ends up being trading and/or gambling rather than investing to the extent that you even know the difference). So, then the more resources a person has, then the more options that they have, yet many times, we should not be presuming that average bitcoin newbies are starting out with much if any resources beyond perhaps having discretionary income, and yeah, if they have more resources, then that factor helps them out to have more options in regards to whether to allocate to bitcoin and if so how much to allocate to bitcoin versus other places that they might chose to allocate their time, energy and value.


Of course, guys can do whatever, they like.  I tend to recommend that guys do not get involved at all in any other projects in the beginning of their building their investment in bitcoin, yet surely we cannot take guys away from their inclinations to trade, gamble or to get involved in shitcoins, which surely the trade/gamble angle can be seen from your HODL post, yet at the same time, there is no reason to believe that you are also not inclined to get distracted into shitcoins, so in that regard, I have frequently suggested that guys do not put anymore than 10% of the size of their bitcoin investment into shitcoins and/or trading/gambling... and, yeah guys are going to do what they like, yet if they might consider limiting their exposure to nonsense then they may well be able to better able focus their time, energy and value into bitcoin rather than inferior products and/or inferior approaches...so yeah, I suppose my frequent concession of up to 10% of the size of the bitcoin investment in shitcoins, trading/gambling remains a bit of an acknowledgment that guys might have difficulties in not getting distracted away from bitcoin.


It seems quite strange that you are ongoingly distracted by alts, since 1) there are not very many alts that would have had actually outperformed bitcoin, whether we are referring to starting in 2013 or even 2016/2017 as our starting date, and 2) it seems quite amazing that you feel that you would have had to have needed to outperform bitcoin, especially if you had been able to do most of your bitcoin accumulation in those earlier years, such as 2013 or even if you had done most of your bitcoin accumulation prior to 2017... Of course, the earlier that you had built up your bitcoin holdings the better, even though even longer and drug out bitcoin accumulation still would have ended up doing well for guys who had gotten involved in bitcoin early and stayed focused on bitcoin rather than playing the lottery in some kind of an attempt to figure out which shitcoin (or other project) happens to be less shitty than the overwhelming majority of shitcoins and/or shitcoin-related projects.
 

I am glad that you appreciate bitcoin, since if it were not for bitcoin, the other various shitcoin (or what you like to call it, "crypto") would not even exist in any kinds of a form or format that would have much if any value.  Bitcoin brings value to the whole space in terms of bitcoin having had invented, introduced, discovered a kind of paradigm shifting way of interacting with the world - that had not existed prior to bitcoin,.. and yeah, to repeat my earlier point, bitcoin happens to be the dog, and you seem to ongoingly have difficulties appreciating/recognizing doggie bitcoin (aka king daddy or king doggie).
 

At least you seem to recognize bitcoin as the source of value, even if you seem to ongoingly be distracted by derivatives, which likely has contributed to a lot of underperformance of your own holdings, even if seem to want to insinuate that there are some potential greater values in investing in and/or HODLing derivative products rather than bitcoin itself.

I am not going to deny that there are a lot of folks who are able to and who also have been able to benefit from number go up technology (or price exposure to bitcoin) that comes from holding bitcoin derivative products, and yeah, there are ways to benefit from derivative products, even though bitcoin would not have any value if there weren't abilities to hold and transact in bitcoin directly..and yeah on an individual level guys can choose not to hold and transact in bitcoin directly because they might even get some side bribes (such as tax advantages, yield, not being harassed, etc etc by holding paper rather than real bitcoin)....

and of course, we do not have to agree since part of the benefit of a forum like this is that we can interchange ideas and each of us can figure out our own ways of balancing what we are going to do or how we are going to talk about matters, and for sure, some guys will end up being more right than others and some guys will end up tailoring their own balances better to their own situations than others, and we are not always going to know the variation of performance between guys or even accurately assessing our own performance as compared with what it could have had been or should have had been might be challenging for some guys.  

No matter what, a certain quantity of mistakes will be made, and some guys will figure out and adjust better to their mistakes than others.


You (@KingsDen) seem to be presuming that OGs ended up getting their bitcoin versus "crypto" matters right and that they were able to hang onto a sufficient amount of their bitcoin (to the extent that they had any and they were not mixing up bitcoin and shitcoins) so that their various fuck ups along the way did not end up contributing to their continuing to fuck up, over and over and over, rather than learning from their mistakes.

For sure, we can grant that the guys who got into bitcoin early could have had fucked up in very significant ways and still ended up performing quite well in their bitcoin performance as long as they still ended up buying and/or HODLing bitcoin.  We cannot presume that the mere assertion that guys might have had made that they accumulated and/or held their bitcoin that their assertions about what they supposedly did is true and/or that they were able to advance out of their bitcoin accumulation phase and into either maintenance phase or some other variation of having enough or more than enough bitcoin..

because surely we can look back historically and even use some BTC DCA tools in order to verify what even some modest and persistent bitcoin accumulation could have had accomplished, yet frequently so many guys, do not have bitcoin holdings or wealth that are equivalent to what some kind of a modest DCA accumulation approach would have had accomplished.

There are plenty of OG bitcoiners who have not gotten out of their accumulation phase and who even seem to be quite early in their accumulation phase, and sure we cannot really know for sure about the reasons in terms of whether there are objectively problematic issues or merely definitional issues.

Take even a very modest bitcoin accumulation approach of $50 per week that GameKyuubi could have had begun on the day of his famous HODL post.  $33.5k would have had been invested, and nearly 23 BTC would have had been accumulated.  Admittedly most of the bitcoin would have had been accumulated in the first few years, but still accumulating 23 BTC over nearly 13 years would be a quite great place to be, and I doubt that GameKyuubi has any ways to show that he did better from whatever fucking around that he had been doing with shitcoins over the years, unless maybe he launched some shitcoin that he could try to take advantage of his fame that may or may not end up working out for him.. so surely there can be advantages in ongoing BTC accumulation, even if earlier bitcoin guys might not have ended up lump summing into bitcoin.


Haven't you been able to notice that GameKyuubi had not really practiced accumulate HODL over the years, which would have had been quite great for him financially (and probably psychologically too) if he had ended up practicing it rather than merely posting about the idea of it.

Topic subject and body updated - please reference the OP.

Thanks!

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@JayJuanGee,

If someone is satsfied with their current stack, in terms of being happy with the value of it when it was aquired, it's value now after a long time of accumulation, and it's potential value in the future after hodling, does stopping accumulation of bitcoin to pursue other interests/vectors of entertainment a bad thing? Yes, by other things, I refer to shitcoins/memecoins, but not entirely exclusively. I also aim to ask the question of halting accumulation in the spirit of spending time, energy, and interest in other things/aspects of this beautiful life - does this make someone a "bad bitcoiner", or a "non-believer"? I'm having fun messing around with memecoins. I'm also enjoying the company of my Wife and 2 year-old Son.

I understand corn is severely undervalued, given the world we live in.
I still add to my stack, but not nearly as vigorously as I once did.

This is not a loaded question, and I am asking sincerely/curious about how you feel about it. I chose my words carefully.

I get the sense that this thread has taken too much of a curve ball change, and perhaps when you (@[btc.] by the way your user-name is screwed up) suggested that you might close the thread, that might have had been the better idea, rather than changing the overall theme of the thread... especially since responses had already been given within the parameters of the earlier framing of the topic.

I will attempt to respond to your questions - even though it seems that those kinds of ideas seem to be ongoingly batted around in my investment ideas thread, and there are also subjective valuations that many of us attempt to use to try to figure out how much we should be stacking and/whether we have reached enough or more than enough bitcoin - and many guys who are new to bitcoin, they seem to believe that they will never reach enough bitcoin or even close to enough bitcoin, but then again, it seems that if we are stacking bitcoin within the context of our already existing income, then it seems practical that we might be wanting to either replace our income or some multiple of our income, and it would not really be backing a whole hell of a lot of sense to be striving to be able to replace 100s of times our current income... because it would become less practical regarding how much we are able to stack in light of the current income that we have coming in.

Many times I will talk about aiming to stack around 1-2 years of your current income with an anticipation that bitcoin prices may well sufficiently grow so that at some point (when you reach fuck you status) you would end up with 10x or more of your desired income based on valuing your holdings based on the 200-WMA.

So then in a ballpark way, if a guy is only able to use around 10% of his income to stack bitcoin, then it is going to take him nearly 10 years to stack 1 year of his income and 20 years to stack 2 years of his income, so then in some sense if he is not able to practically stack at a more aggressive (a larger percentage of his income per year) than that, then he may well be relying up bitcoin's own appreciation to magnify (compound upon) whatever value that he had ended up putting into bitcoin.

Another thing that could end up happening, is that if the BTC price ends up going up greatly such as 5x or more, then the guy might feel that he put enough or more than enough value into bitcoin, since the bitcoin start to cost him 5x more than what they used to cost him (or he is ONLY getting 1/5 as much for the same amount of value that he is putting in).

Whether the guy is justified in stopping or slowing down his bitcoin accumulation and/or maybe starting to buy on dips (rather than all of the time) tend to be personal choices, and guys surely might end up having regrets if they stopped and/or slowed down their bitcoin yet the bitcoin ends up doing another 3x to 5x to even 10x or more after they had largely slowed down, stopped or even only bought on dips... so then they have regrets, for example, if they largely told themselves that they would discontinue buying bitcoin in the supra $30k price territories, yet then the BTC price spent a lot of time higher than $30k when they could have had bought, but they were too busy telling themselves that they have enough or more than enough bitcoin (which really was not true, in light of their own targeted standard of living and the amount of BTC that they had accumulated was not enough (or more than enough to be able to accomplish their goals).

At the time (earlier on) they thought that they were doing the correct thing in terms of slowing down or stopping their bitcoin accumulation, but then perhaps a few years later they realize that it is quite likely (if, perhaps, not impossible, that bitcoin prices are ever going to go below $30k again and even their buying between $30k and $60k would have had been better than their purposefully choosing not to accumulate in those prices).

And, yeah, no one can tell anyone else what to do, and surely guys who were accumulating in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and even 2019, might not have had been punished as much for their having had made the same, or a similar kind of a mistake in their having has purposefully chosen to slow down or stop their bitcoin accumulation earlier than they should have had.

By the way @[btc.], your forum registration has only been less than a year, and frequently I suggest that guys spend at least 4 years or more focused on bitcoin accumulation, and of course you can get involved in various other projects, yet for most of my forum registration, which is slightly more than 12.5 years and I am also coming onto closely 13 years of bitcoin accumulation, if we count late November 2013 as my start date, and I have been spending most of my time suggesting that guys focus on bitcoin ONLY... and yeah shitcoins were still a thing in late 2013 and into 2014 and 2015, but they likely really did not start to take off BIG until the time around Ethereum's launch in mid-2015 and thereafter, shitcoins became easier and easier to get involved in, yet I personally continued to both stay focused on bitcoin and also to suggest that forum members don't get distracted into the various shitcoins... so yeah, I am still not much of a fan of either losing focused or even getting involved in trying to flip shitcoins, whether you are referring to meme coins or other derivative products of bitcoin or shitcoins.

In the end, of course, you can actually do whatever you want, and whether you end up having regrets later is still to be found out.  There surely are some guys (perhaps beyond the promoters of the project who are scamming others) who end up figuring out how to get in and out of various shitcoins, yet I would imagine your odds are pretty low to out perform a practice of staying focused on bitcoin and building up your bitcoin holdings and to HODL onto them.

The extent to which you are a "bad bitcoiner" for not keeping your focus on bitcoin is also to be found out..  Even if you might consider that there might be some fun in meme coins or whatever your other various shitcoin projects and/or trading bitcoin, I continue to believe that fuck meme coins and shitcoins to be a better approach, but do whatever you like in terms of your bitcoin versus non bitcoin balance, if you are having fun wasting your time, energy and value on that crap.  It tends to take a whole hell of a lot of time to both build up a bitcoin holdings and to be able to hang onto your bitcoin holdings through the ups and downs of life (and the various competing interests that we need to balance, as you suggested to be the case with a lot of guys).