If it were a matter of pretending, I would agree.  I did not have any emotional attactment to Bitcoin or it's success when I learned about it.  I had no opinion about it until I understood it.  But once I understood it, I had an opinion. 


Do you understand what I am referring to when I say I'm an INTP?  I'm just about an unemotional in my decision making processes as is likely possible.  I am not driven by emotion, it has taken me decades just to fake it well.


This is likely true for most people, but by this point he will be using Bitcoin because that's what other people trust, not because he trusts what other people say.


Sans the license to practice, almost a yes.


I am neither playing, nor am I particularly young.  Do you regularly see those who hold opinions other than your own to be inmature or inexperienced in your own mind?  If your point was that emotion plays a a role in how people view Bitcoin, I think you were being too vague, but I still would say, so what?  The vast majority of people don't understand how fiat currency works, and don't care.  They only know that everyone else uses it.  Bitcoin takes over as those who care to know, switch; and are followed by those who don't care to know.

Creighto, the whole Jung personality game is just as notable and credible as astrology. I hope you know that.

I like Jung now. A never-ending curiosity for oneself and others can prove to be quite a virtue. Actually, it's a foundation most relationships lack. One should not neglect it in the relationship with oneself.

Good food for thought.

I'd also like to refute the whole "OMG early adopters are making a fortune!" argument: for an early adopter to maximize their profits from hoarding while the price rises, they would have to never lose faith in Bitcoin.  As soon as they do, they sell, and then they're at the same level as newcomers.

Beautifully said. It sounds to me like you are powerfully related to other people. As a result of being powerfully related to your fellow human beings - whether through therapy, healing of trauma, faith or all of the above- you got to know who you are.  That's something that a BitCoin can't buy.... and one can be only transformed into such a human being... by a certain higher power which most people do not beleive exists.

I wish more people were like you. The good does indeed survive!

There are three aspects that the current Bitcoin system and Suggester's solution share and which you wouldn't like to have in a currency:

1. A Bitcoin's current value is determined by the currently socially necessary labour time to produce one bitcoin.
This means that Bitcoin is a digital currency money. In the current model the value changes by 19% p.a. on average. But Suggester's model shares the same flaw. Although Bitcoin would not be deflationary anymore, the value still depends on commodities like hardware and electricity. Money can't be created as needed, but has to be produced with commodities. This implies …

2. Money supply is severely restricted.
Bitcoin is only a Ponzi/pyramid scheme without any use besides speculation. You cannot create money as it is needed. There would be no banks, no credits, no interest rates. This system can never work in a growing capitalist economy. It can't measure the value of the produced goods because there can never be enough Bitcoins.

3. A huge part of the economy serves only the mining of Bitcoins.
Since Bitcoins are produced only with electricity and computing, a great part of capital (means of production and labour) has to be expended on the production of the society's money. This is economically and ecologically insane, to put it politely! Even under Suggester's model an economy could only grow as the Bitcoin mining industry grows. Just imagine nearly every worker working for an electricity/Bitcoin mining company. This industry would invest all its profits in Bitcoin mining and draw capital from all other industries. Soon there would not be any other industry than Bitcoin mining and related industries.

All these fundamental problems exist in both the current model and Suggester's model. That's why I suggest to drop this Bitcoin Ponzi scheme altogether.

You have it backwards. The time to mine one bitcoin is determined by the difficulty level, and the difficulty level is approximately determined by 1) the value of Bitcoins, 2) the number of Bitcoin users, and 3) the level of "mining enthusiasm".

The value of one bitcoin is determined by people's beliefs in what goods and services they can get for that bitcoin in the future.


How can you be sure there's enough USD or Euros?  If central banks determine there's not "enough" of their currency, they issue more and the value of each one is diluted -- inflation.

Credit is entirely possible, as are banks.  You don't need a fiat currency for those.  We had both credit and banks when currencies were backed by precious metals.

Here is my litmus test for Bitcoin: are Bitcoins being exchanged for real goods and services (not mining paraphernalia)? If so, then it's not a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme.



I think you greatly over-estimate the need for mining.  It seems to me that most of the mining going on is driven by enthusiasm, and is happening at a loss.  When the enthusiasm passes, the only mining will be done by people making a profit, and so there will be much more real economic activity in proportion to mining activity.

Hi all,

I've only just heard about Bitcoin last week, and have been reading through this thread today.

It's funny to see Suggester's predictions from a year and a half ago come true, and it's going to be even funnier to see when a couple of people decide to cash out, then investors see the price drop a bit, then everyone decides to get out while they can and then entire system implodes... 

I thought about getting some Bitcoins a couple of days ago to start playing with them as I was interested in the concept, but after seeing how volatile they are and watching them go up 70% in the last 4 days, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole, because the chances are that they'll go down 70% by next week, or more likely drop way past whatever their "true" value is, but who knows what that is at the moment.

Good luck guys. For those with a lot of coins, I hope you get out before the crash...

Of course Bitcoins are experimental and rather new - if you are looking for some low-risk investment then look elsewhere. On the other hand, most people seem to expect Bitcoin to either be hugely successful or fail completely. In the latter case the "real value" will eventually be zero of course but in the former, it is greatly undervalued right now.

If you think Bitcoin is worth at least something in the long run, then investing a bit in them is probably a good idea - even if you think the current price is too high.