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Topic: Facebook has MSB license in at least 15 states, Google also (Read 5656 times)

BitPay Business Solutions (OP)

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Facebook has MSB license in at least 15 states, Google also

February 17, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2012, 05:39:04 AM by Bit-pay Merchant Solutions

I discovered this fun fact while doing some research on Trust Cash.

1. Georgia full list (zip): https://dbfweb.dbf.state.ga.us/WebCCData.html
2. Delaware full list: http://banking.delaware.gov/information/checksales.pdf
3. Texas full list: http://www.banking.state.tx.us/supreglic_ent.asp
4. Iowa full list: http://www.idob.state.ia.us/public/license/Financesrch/lic_default.htm
5. Kentucky full list: http://dfiweb.ky.gov/dfipublic/default.aspx
6. Washington: https://fortress.wa.gov/dfi/licenselu/dfi/licenseLU/LicenseLLU.aspx
7. New Hampshire full list (xls): http://www.nh.gov/banking/list-money-transmitter.xls

I haven't had time to look into other states, but here is the link to the correct department in each state to go searching:

http://www.shajlaw.com/moneytransmitterlicense.html

Also, it appears that Trust Cash is not a licensed MSB in any state I have clicked on so far. Trust Cash is headquartered in Georgia and incorporated in Delaware. Does anyone know if they actually have an MSB license anywhere? Because I cannot find one.

EDIT - while I'm at it, Google's name popped up as well

1. California full list http://www.dfi.ca.gov/directory/mt.asp?DATA=
2. Nevada full list https://fid.online.nv.gov/datamart/details.do?anchor=d0edd98.0.1
3. New York full list http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/whowesupervise/simoneyt.htm
4. Louisiana full list http://www.ofi.state.la.us/soclist.htm
5. Texas (see above)
6. Iowa (see above)
7. Kentucky (see above)
8. Virginia full list: http://www.scc.virginia.gov/bfi/reg_inst/trans.pdf
9. Hawaii full list: http://hawaii.gov/dcca/dfi/regulate/regulate/Folder.2007-05-03.2330
10. Michigan full list: http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/fis/ind_srch/ConsumerFinance/ViewList.asp
11. North Carolina full list: https://www.nccob.org/Online/MTS/MTSCompanyListing.aspx
12. Tennessee full list: http://www.tennessee.gov/tdfi/banking/Lic_MT.html
13. Washington (see above)
14. Oregon full list: http://www4.cbs.state.or.us/ex/all/mylicsearch/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.show_main&group_id=20&profession_id=23&profession_sub_id=23000
15. New Hampshire (see above)
16. Utah full list: http://www.dfi.state.ut.us/MonTrans.htm

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 2 states

February 17, 2012, 08:38:15 PM

actually a social credit system (i.e. based on competing value tokens issued by lots of different companies) would be much better than the central banking system we have today. It is in fact proposed as a solution in Money As Debt 3.

But please, not Facebook. They are a quasi-monopoly and people are sheeple and will by and large uncritically accept their credits as the only de-facto currency of exchange. This idea can only work if there are lots and lots of mid-size, ethical companies that have to compete for our valuation.

For Bitcoin, its uncertain if it can play a role in such a scenario as a common denominator.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 2 states

February 17, 2012, 08:46:32 PM
Last edit: February 17, 2012, 08:57:52 PM by J Pitt

Quote from: herzmeister on February 17, 2012, 08:38:15 PM

But please, not Facebook.

Not even "sheeple" are going to want to use a non-transferrable currency with a spending tax of 30% outside of Facebook games.

EDIT: To the OP - if you want to give Trust Cash the benefit of the doubt, they may be an agent of an already licensed entity. But I have to say the whole operation seems odd to me.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 17, 2012, 09:03:57 PM

Google Checkout is licensed in Virginia. Facebook is not.

There are quite a few others licensed in Virginia that are interesting. Full list is here.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 17, 2012, 09:06:47 PM

Quote from: blueadept on February 17, 2012, 09:03:57 PM

Google Checkout is licensed in Virginia. Facebook is not.

There are quite a few others licensed in Virginia that are interesting. Full list is here.

thanks, I updated the OP.

This one is interesting in your list

Amazon Payments, Inc. d/b/a TextPayMe
410 Terry Avenue North
Seattle, WA 98109

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 01:51:02 AM

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 17, 2012, 09:06:47 PM

Amazon Payments, Inc. d/b/a TextPayMe
410 Terry Avenue North
Seattle, WA 98109

I can't help but think Amazon.com may be Satoshi Nakamoto:
- they have a history of butting heads with regulators
- they operate a very high volume business on very slim margins
- they certainly see half their profit margin going to the banks
- they have a history of technical innovation

It would make sense to me that they would put a team of bright people on the task of inventing a better payment system that would allow them to bypass the banks and dramatically improve their bottom line. When they worked out how to it, they would have realized they could never just launch such a thing themselves (bringing the ire of the bankers and the politicians they own down upon them). So, instead they come up with plan bput it out there and nuture it until such time as it's clear that it can survive on its own, then back awaywait a few years until the world gets over all it's qualms about the technologythen start using it.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 01:55:23 AM

Quote from: Steve on February 18, 2012, 01:51:02 AM

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 17, 2012, 09:06:47 PM

Amazon Payments, Inc. d/b/a TextPayMe
410 Terry Avenue North
Seattle, WA 98109

their service is called TextPayMe, right, they have any mention about decentralized e-currency in there or something ?

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 04:18:36 AM

Quote from: paraipan on February 18, 2012, 01:55:23 AM

Quote from: Steve on February 18, 2012, 01:51:02 AM

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 17, 2012, 09:06:47 PM

Amazon Payments, Inc. d/b/a TextPayMe
410 Terry Avenue North
Seattle, WA 98109

their service is called TextPayMe, right, they have any mention about decentralized e-currency in there or something ?

Not sure, but take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgJ8yckwNYqcJirJnChFxqmwGu7kipD2KbqQwYI5SmOFu11AFQWdoNEILLM-xcnSMyLRMVSUo8uuY86Ixk8n-dLr2S0e98ZbFB6HMlBSoJ1Oi_T4a7EBMcIlgqSSEZ1wYUMWPFf&q=cache%3AIPpL3ho5QWIJ%3Awww.edgardunn.com%2Fuploads%2F100012_english%2F100347.pdf%20&docid=c600ee601f693f608c79c6f198d4409f&a=bi&pagenumber=5&w=1200

Source: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:IPpL3ho5QWIJ:www.edgardunn.com/uploads/100012_english/100347.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgJ8yckwNYqcJirJnChFxqmwGu7kipD2KbqQwYI5SmOFu11AFQWdoNEILLM-xcnSMyLRMVSUo8uuY86Ixk8n-dLr2S0e98ZbFB6HMlBSoJ1Oi_T4a7EBMcIlgqSSEZ1wYUMWPFf&sig=AHIEtbQHPep_JaA1sB8MAnWu93DxgQhFbA

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 04:27:20 AM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on February 18, 2012, 04:18:36 AM

Source: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:IPpL3ho5QWIJ:www.edgardunn.com/uploads/100012_english/100347.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgJ8yckwNYqcJirJnChFxqmwGu7kipD2KbqQwYI5SmOFu11AFQWdoNEILLM-xcnSMyLRMVSUo8uuY86Ixk8n-dLr2S0e98ZbFB6HMlBSoJ1Oi_T4a7EBMcIlgqSSEZ1wYUMWPFf&sig=AHIEtbQHPep_JaA1sB8MAnWu93DxgQhFbA

That's a good report. Now if they will make one little change to page 8 it will solve all their problems.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 04:47:25 AM

#10

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 18, 2012, 04:27:20 AM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on February 18, 2012, 04:18:36 AM

That's a good report. Now if they will make one little change to page 8 it will solve all their problems.

Agreed

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 4 states

February 18, 2012, 05:28:52 AM

#11

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 18, 2012, 04:27:20 AM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on February 18, 2012, 04:18:36 AM

That's a good report. Now if they will make one little change to page 8 it will solve all their problems.

To me, it looks like an Easy Button.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 18, 2012, 06:15:32 AM

#12

Haha.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 19, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

#13

Why all the research on these licenses?

Are we looking for competitors to bitcoin?

Does bitcoin need some of these licenses?

Is that even possible given that no one is "in charge" of bitcoin?

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 19, 2012, 01:24:18 PM

#14

Quote from: kjlimo on February 19, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

Why all the research on these licenses?

Are we looking for competitors to bitcoin?

Does bitcoin need some of these licenses?

Is that even possible given that no one is "in charge" of bitcoin?

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 19, 2012, 02:56:04 PM

#15

Quote from: kjlimo on February 19, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

Are we looking for competitors to bitcoin?

Does bitcoin need some of these licenses?

Is that even possible given that no one is "in charge" of bitcoin?

Mobile Wallets and Mobile payments will be a very, very crowded space in 1-2 years. So yes, it is quite interesting to see Facebook take the steps now to be a licensed Money Transmitter.

Bitcoin services like the exchanges, payment processors, and expediters like BitInstant definitely fall under existing regulations for currency exchanges, payment processing, and money transmission. Especially when such businesses use Dollars or Euros as part of their business.

So yes, the recent crackdown on TradeHill, etc, just shows that bitcoin related businesses need the proper licensing. If facebook and Google are getting this type of license, then bitcoin businesses should probably follow and do the same thing.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 19, 2012, 11:20:31 PM

#16

Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on February 19, 2012, 02:56:04 PM

Quote from: kjlimo on February 19, 2012, 12:33:07 PM

Are we looking for competitors to bitcoin?

Does bitcoin need some of these licenses?

due diligence for a business to be legal in those states?

Quote

Mobile Wallets and Mobile payments will be a very, very crowded space in 1-2 years. So yes, it is quite interesting to see Facebook take the steps now to be a licensed Money Transmitter.

facebook credits.

Quote

If facebook and Google are getting this type of license, then bitcoin businesses should probably follow and do the same thing.

Google checkout, and facebook credits.

should Amazon have licenses as well (I'm thinking primarily of the Mechanical Turk site)

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 20, 2012, 04:51:35 AM

#17

So sounds like this is mostly an issue for exchanges.

We're thinking that there isn't anything that a business needs to do to simply accept bitcoins at this time?

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 20, 2012, 05:20:14 AM

#18

Quote from: kjlimo on February 20, 2012, 04:51:35 AM

So sounds like this is mostly an issue for exchanges.

We're thinking that there isn't anything that a business needs to do to simply accept bitcoins at this time?

correct, there is nothing a merchant needs to do regarding licensing. Merchants are free to accept Euros, Pesos, gold, any form of payment they want to. The licensing is for the exchanges, the payment processors, and possibly the wallets.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 20, 2012, 02:00:39 PM

#19

Ok, so this will only to apply to sending fiat money. Bitcoin isn't actually transmitted anywhere. It just registers a signature in the block chain and it doesn't matter where the wallet is stored. If the wallet is stored in the cloud, then it is not even going from point A to B. There is no reason to believe that the transaction is not local.

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Re: Facebook has MSB license in at least 7 states, Google in 15+ states

February 20, 2012, 02:41:34 PM

#20

If all Bitcoin exchanges become "licensed", I'll certainly lose faith in it as a currency. The point of bitcoin isn't to be accepted by the current powers that be, but to overthrow them. Fuck their licenses and fuck the people we're supposed to beg for permission from.

I'm grumpy!!

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