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    Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2032327 times)

    • cypherdoc (OP)
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    August 06, 2015, 12:58:24 PM
     #29841
    Quote from: kazuki49 on August 06, 2015, 06:29:18 AM
    fiat is king. btw the hate bitcoiners have against fiat is far stronger than the political skirmish some moneranoj have against bitcoin (me included, I dont see reasons to use bitcoin anymore), seeing how bitcoin needs fiat to survive its quite a paradox it is hated so much, monero on other hand doesnt need bitcoin to survive.

    So says the Monero pimp.

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    August 06, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
     #29842
    Quote from: rocks on August 05, 2015, 09:18:47 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 05, 2015, 02:03:01 PM
    http://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/cts8dn1

    PT is getting trashed in the rest of the comment section those who seem sick of him are getting very highly upvoted

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/

    I think this whole blocksize "debate" has opened a lot of people's eyes.

    the pro-bigger block upvotes on Reddit, IN GENERAL, are increasing in intensity and pitch and trashing Cripplecoiner's.  the whole lot of Blockstream core dev has been "in absentia" for weeks now and even the personal attacks against me are subsiding in intensity.

    poor Cripplecoiner's.  the day of reckoning is nearing.

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    August 06, 2015, 02:19:42 PM
     #29843
    Quote from: brg444 on August 05, 2015, 12:39:48 AM
    so if I understand correctly Peter's "landmark paper" rise to the top was.."short like leprechaun".

    http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009916.html

    a valiant effort I guess. getting some more peer-review probably would've been of better judgment?

    ps. I'm not against you "crowd-sourcing" your grammar but I thought the whole exercise on reddit made your thread unreadable.

    if it was short, which it wasn't, it was only b/c guys like you didn't understand the math and b/c of your myopia.

    so if that wasn't enough, perhaps today's Gavin quote stuck to the top of Reddit with over 500 upvotes is good enough for you?:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fxvn8/gavin_andresen_on_his_vision_for_bitcoin_i_think/

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    August 06, 2015, 02:46:22 PM
     #29844
    $DJI getting ready to set a new short term low.  i love this;

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    August 06, 2015, 02:54:13 PM
     #29845
    oh my, Cripplecoiner's need to watch this from Andreas if you don't want to "lose all your money".  also, keep going to the end b/c it's clear that Andreas gets it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jqpKEHYGE0&feature=youtu.be&t=40m11s

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    August 06, 2015, 03:10:40 PM
     #29846
    what's a fair price for oil at this point?  $25?:

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    August 06, 2015, 03:17:53 PM
     #29847
    here's my theory.

    the Fed might continue to threaten to raise interest rates all day long for months on end, which i don't think they will, but what is happening behind closed doors?  is their PPT division continually printing to perform stick saves all along this sideways pattern trying to prevent a selloff?:

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    August 06, 2015, 03:35:45 PM
     #29848
    only 14 more pts to go...

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    August 06, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
     #29849
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
    Quote from: rocks on August 05, 2015, 09:18:47 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 05, 2015, 02:03:01 PM
    http://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/cts8dn1

    PT is getting trashed in the rest of the comment section those who seem sick of him are getting very highly upvoted

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/

    I think this whole blocksize "debate" has opened a lot of people's eyes.

    the pro-bigger block upvotes on Reddit, IN GENERAL, are increasing in intensity and pitch and trashing Cripplecoiner's.  the whole lot of Blockstream core dev has been "in absentia" for weeks now and even the personal attacks against me are subsiding in intensity.

    poor Cripplecoiner's.  the day of reckoning is nearing.

    Reddit has made their decision, now let them enforce it.  Remind me, how many divisions does Chairman Pao command?   Grin

    The max block size isn't changing anytime Soon®; you are wasting your energy pounding sand here.

    Trash PT and iB all you like, it makes no difference to the Honey Badger of Money.   Cool

    Remember the day your beloved overhyped 20mb Gavinblocks' got #REKT like Germanwings Flight 9525?  In case you forgot:

    http://cointelegraph.com/news/114481/chinese-exchanges-reject-gavin-andresens-20-mb-block-size-increase

    Hah, that was good times!   Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

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    August 06, 2015, 03:39:52 PM
     #29850
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 06, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
    Quote from: rocks on August 05, 2015, 09:18:47 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 05, 2015, 02:03:01 PM
    http://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/cts8dn1

    PT is getting trashed in the rest of the comment section those who seem sick of him are getting very highly upvoted

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/

    I think this whole blocksize "debate" has opened a lot of people's eyes.

    the pro-bigger block upvotes on Reddit, IN GENERAL, are increasing in intensity and pitch and trashing Cripplecoiner's.  the whole lot of Blockstream core dev has been "in absentia" for weeks now and even the personal attacks against me are subsiding in intensity.

    poor Cripplecoiner's.  the day of reckoning is nearing.

    Reddit has made their decision, now let them enforce it.  Remind me, how many divisions does Chairman Pao command?   Grin

    The max block size isn't changing anytime Soon®; you are wasting your energy pounding sand here.

    Trash PT and iB all you like, it makes no difference to the Honey Badger of Money.   Cool

    Remember the day your beloved overhyped 20mb Gavinblocks' got #REKT like Germanwings Flight 9525?  In case you forgot:

    http://cointelegraph.com/news/114481/chinese-exchanges-reject-gavin-andresens-20-mb-block-size-increase

    Hah, that was good times!   Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

    as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!" 

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    August 06, 2015, 04:01:09 PM
     #29851
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:35:45 PM
    only 14 more pts to go...

    whoops.  breach in the hull...

    sell, sell, sell.

  • phoenix1
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    August 06, 2015, 04:04:47 PM
     #29852
    @ ICETroll
    you missed the edit at the bottom of the article linking to this tweet

    Quote
    Update 10:08 GMT: OKCoin has pointed out that they sent out a tweet in support of the block size limit increase in May.

    https://twitter.com/OKCoinBTC/status/598412795240009728

    Quote
    Block size increase makes #Bitcoin more efficient and enables faster confirmations. OKCoin's tech team believes it's the right decision.

    You also totally misrepresent the article in your post (usual behaviour  Roll Eyes):

    Quote
    both exchanges recognize that the current one megabyte block size limit is probably too small for Bitcoin to reach mainstream adoption

    Quote
    “We believe in a gradual increase of the block size limit along with a hard upper limit to prevent misuse,“

    Quote
    BTCChina and Huobi shared concerns that a jump to 20 megabytes might be too big, while suggesting that a more sustainable long term solution should be sought after

    There is another artilce (which I am sure you won't bother to dig out, and I ma not going to do for you) where they virtually agreed to an increase to 8MB blocks.

    20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...

    #REKT ... I don't think so ... Roll Eyes
    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)

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    August 06, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
     #29853
    simple maths that the Cripplecoiner's love to ignore.  thx to Peter_R for highlighting the importance of the exchange price:


    Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
    4 days ago
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    ...
    I haven't seen anyone do the (trivial) maths on this. Have I just
    missed it? By my count:

    - blocks in 25 btc in rewards and about 0.5 btc in fees per block
    - at ~$300 USD per btc, that's ~$7,650 per block

    - current hashrate is ~400 PH/s; so ~240,000 PH/block works out
    to having to spend about 30PH per dollar earnt.
    - for comparison,
    https://products.butterflylabs.com/cloud-mining-contracts.html
    quotes $1.99 per GH/s for 12 months, which by my count is
    60*60*24*365 1.99 GH/$ = 15.8 PH per dollar spent
    - hashrate growth has slowed from about x4/quarter to x2/year:
    sep '13: ~1PH/s
    dec '13: ~4PH/s
    mar '14: ~20PH/s
    jun '14: ~80PH/s
    sep '14: ~200PH/s
    aug '15: ~400PH/s

    - so, as far as I understand it, miners don't make absurd profits compared
    to capital investment and running costs
    - presumably, then, miners will stop mining bitcoin if the revenue/block
    drops significantly at some point
    - less miners means a lower hashrate; a lower hashrate makes
    50% attacks easier, and that's a bad thing     (especially if there's lots
    of pre-loved ASIC mining hardware available cheap on ebay or alibaba)

    - in about a year, the block reward halves, cutting out 12.5 btc or
    ~$3750 USD per block    . without an increase in fees per block, miners
    will just get ~$3900 USD per block
    - the last time the reward for mining a block was under $4000 per block
    was around oct '13, with a hashrate of ~2PH/s

    - 13 btc in fees per block compared to .5 btc in fees per block is a
    25x increase; which could be either an increase in fee/txn or
    txns/block
    - with ~500 bytes/transaction, that's ~2000 transactions per MB
    - 13 btc in fees ($3900) per block means per transaction fees of
    about
    $2 for 1MB blocks
    $1 for 2MB blocks
    25c for 8MB blocks
    10c for 20MB blocks
    (assuming full blocks, 500 byte txns)

    - comparing that to credit card or paypal fees at ~2.5% that's:
    $2 -> minimum transaction $80
    $1 -> minimum transaction $40
    25c -> minimum transaction $10
    10c -> minimum transaction $4

    - those numbers only depend on the USD/BTC exchange rate in so far as
    the more USD for a BTC, the more likely the block reward will pay
    for hashrate without transaction fees, even with the reward reduced
    to 12.5 btc/block. otherwise it's just USD/txn paying for USD/hashrate

    - the reference implementation fee of 0.1mBTC/kB equates to about
    3c per transaction (since it rounds up). Even 10c/transaction is more
    than a 3x increase on that.

    What the above says to me is that even assuming everyone starts paying
    fees, the lightning network works great, and so do sidechains and whatever
    else, youstill/ want to up the volume of bitcoin txns by something like
    an order of magnitude above what's currently allowed within a year or so.

    Cheers,
    aj

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    August 06, 2015, 04:16:41 PM
    Last edit: August 06, 2015, 04:27:33 PM by brg444
     #29854
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:39:52 PM
    as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!"  

    same Andreas who vouched for NeoBee?

    same Andreas who broke everything while at blockchain.info?

    same Andreas who's spreading wallet hacking malware on twitter?

    Yep. sure making his best effort to lose people money.

    That guy is an oblivious douche. I wouldn't want him on my side other than to gather some more reddit derp "support"
    "I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010

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    August 06, 2015, 04:27:21 PM
     #29855
    Quote from: phoenix1 on August 06, 2015, 04:04:47 PM

    20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...


    Oh sure...and getting broken on the Blackwater was always Stannis' opening gambit ...

    If you backpedal any faster it might cause a time vortex.   Smiley

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    August 06, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
     #29856
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 04:01:09 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:35:45 PM
    only 14 more pts to go...

    whoops.  breach in the hull...

    sell, sell, sell.

    now we have the $DJI & $DJT in sync to the downside:

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    August 06, 2015, 04:40:41 PM
     #29857
    Quote from: brg444 on August 06, 2015, 04:16:41 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:39:52 PM
    as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!"  

    same Andreas who vouched for NeoBee?

    same Andreas who broke everything while at blockchain.info?

    same Andreas who's spreading wallet hacking malware on twitter?

    Yep. sure making his best effort to lose people money.

    That guy is an oblivious douche. I wouldn't want him on my side other than to gather some more reddit derp "support"

    digging your heels in, eh? 

    the Kid Troll trashing anybody who's anybody in the space to try and prove his point.

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    August 06, 2015, 04:43:14 PM
     #29858
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:39:52 PM

    as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!" 

    They will not lose one satoshi. They will follow the economic majority and they will pretend that they are actually being followed.
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    August 06, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
     #29859
    Quote from: majamalu on August 06, 2015, 04:43:14 PM
    Quote from: cypherdoc on August 06, 2015, 03:39:52 PM

    as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!" 

    They will not lose one satoshi. They will follow the economic majority and they will pretend that they are actually being followed.

    possibly, but that may be giving them too much credit.

    myopes can't see past their own noses.  take it from an eye surgeon.

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    August 06, 2015, 04:54:31 PM
     #29860
    Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 06, 2015, 04:27:21 PM
    Quote from: phoenix1 on August 06, 2015, 04:04:47 PM

    20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...


    Oh sure...and getting broken on the Blackwater was always Stannis' opening gambit ...

    If you backpedal any faster it might cause a time vortex.   Smiley

    As usual, you pick up one element of the post, and ignore the rest, (the part that highlights your own misrepresentation of the article)

    What exactly am I backpedalling from iCE? As this is my first post here re size, bit tricky to see what I am backpedalling from. I have always held the opinion that you quote. It is my interpretation of the situation, right or wrong. Is, was, remains unchanged. The only vortices are those you continue to create with your spinning of everyone's words. You'll get sucked into one of those, one of these days ...
    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
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