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    Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3316445 times)
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    • ArticMine
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    June 04, 2015, 05:20:22 AM
     #6281
    Quote from: smooth on June 04, 2015, 01:24:05 AM
    Quote from: mmortal03 on June 04, 2015, 12:20:25 AM
    Quote from: Bassica on June 03, 2015, 10:31:30 AM
    Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' Wink considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

    Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

    "No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

    In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

    I don't really see it. If they are sending coins to you, then where those coins came from (which is what mixing does) is not obscuring the identify of you as their customer. They will have a record of sending coins to you, along with your KYC information. Should be good enough.

    To me that sentence prohibits allowing things like straw buyers. I don't know how it would be interpreted in practice though, that's one of the problems with writing regulations for technologies that are in a fluid state of development and not even understood by the people writing the regulations.


    I do not see mixin values being the issue here. What the MSB is required to do here is 1) Tell the recipient from whom  the funds are coming from 2) Keep a record of the transaction including the recipient and sender. Of course an exchange can simply say that a customer can only withdraw from or deposit to an address under the customer's control. The solution is simple withdraw to a wallet under one's own control, use one's own wallet to receive and send XMR and stop using exchanges as banks.
    Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card

  • macsga
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    June 04, 2015, 07:02:06 AM
     #6282
    Quote from: ArticMine on June 04, 2015, 05:20:22 AM
    I do not see mixin values being the issue here. What the MSB is required to do here is 1) Tell the recipient from whom  the funds are coming from 2) Keep a record of the transaction including the recipient and sender. Of course an exchange can simply say that a customer can only withdraw from or deposit to an address under the customer's control. The solution is simple withdraw to a wallet under one's own control, use one's own wallet to receive and send XMR and stop using exchanges as banks.

    That would be true. Who cares how many times you're mixing, if they know your IP address and the amount sent? I personally don't have any issues with that (nothing to hide) but I see a pattern here, that reminds me of another similar situation about one and a half year ago and urges me to say once more, that we are in desperate need of another exchange.
    Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.

  • DaveyJones
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    June 04, 2015, 08:52:28 AM
     #6283
    Quote from: macsga on June 04, 2015, 07:02:06 AM
    Quote from: ArticMine on June 04, 2015, 05:20:22 AM
    I do not see mixin values being the issue here. What the MSB is required to do here is 1) Tell the recipient from whom  the funds are coming from 2) Keep a record of the transaction including the recipient and sender. Of course an exchange can simply say that a customer can only withdraw from or deposit to an address under the customer's control. The solution is simple withdraw to a wallet under one's own control, use one's own wallet to receive and send XMR and stop using exchanges as banks.

    That would be true. Who cares how many times you're mixing, if they know your IP address and the amount sent? I personally don't have any issues with that (nothing to hide) but I see a pattern here, that reminds me of another similar situation about one and a half year ago and urges me to say once more, that we are in desperate need of another exchange.

    we have the other exchange, but no one barely uses it ----> bittrex. For the case that polo gets hacked or does GoxStyle everything will shift to that exchange. And also if the Monero story succeeds other or new exchanges that may come will adopt it by themselves.

  • smooth (OP)
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    June 04, 2015, 09:10:52 AM
     #6284
    Quote from: DaveyJones on June 04, 2015, 08:52:28 AM
    Quote from: macsga on June 04, 2015, 07:02:06 AM
    Quote from: ArticMine on June 04, 2015, 05:20:22 AM
    I do not see mixin values being the issue here. What the MSB is required to do here is 1) Tell the recipient from whom  the funds are coming from 2) Keep a record of the transaction including the recipient and sender. Of course an exchange can simply say that a customer can only withdraw from or deposit to an address under the customer's control. The solution is simple withdraw to a wallet under one's own control, use one's own wallet to receive and send XMR and stop using exchanges as banks.

    That would be true. Who cares how many times you're mixing, if they know your IP address and the amount sent? I personally don't have any issues with that (nothing to hide) but I see a pattern here, that reminds me of another similar situation about one and a half year ago and urges me to say once more, that we are in desperate need of another exchange.

    we have the other exchange, but no one barely uses it ----> bittrex. For the case that polo gets hacked or does GoxStyle everything will shift to that exchange. And also if the Monero story succeeds other or new exchanges that may come will adopt it by themselves.

    Exactly right. As I said before I don't know of anything wrong with Bittrex but people just want to trade where the most volume is, until and unless given some good reason to change. I have traded XMR on Bittrex on rare occasion though. Worked fine. 



  • MoneroMooo
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    June 04, 2015, 09:47:09 AM
     #6285
    Maybe this Poloniex name and country thing is a blessing in disguise, then. It may cause a significant enough amount of trading to go to Bittrex, thereby encouraging more people to trade there too, and we end up with two "large enough" exchanges, one of which is suitable for suit type people who would only trade on a regulated show-me-your-papers exchange (whatever their reasons might be).

  • smooth (OP)
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    June 04, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
     #6286
    Quote from: MoneroMooo on June 04, 2015, 09:47:09 AM
    Maybe this Poloniex name and country thing is a blessing in disguise, then. It may cause a significant enough amount of trading to go to Bittrex, thereby encouraging more people to trade there too, and we end up with two "large enough" exchanges, one of which is suitable for suit type people who would only trade on a regulated show-me-your-papers exchange (whatever their reasons might be).

    Doesn't it seem likely that bittrex follows along this account verification path fairly soon?

  • nioc
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    June 04, 2015, 10:09:48 AM
     #6287
    ^^^Yes which is why people were talking about bter.  I have had no dealings with either.

  • Shrikez
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    June 04, 2015, 10:17:10 AM
     #6288
    This article provides a balanced view on the matter, in my opinion.

    http://coinarb.tumblr.com/post/119399539544/some-thoughts-on-poloniex


    Disclaimer:

    I am a moderator at Poloniex and will not deny a certain bias. That said my bias is based mostly on my > 1 year long user experience there, which has always been pleasurable on many levels.
    Because of my position I kindly ask not to discuss my opinion on the matter, at least not here. Thank you for your understanding.
    Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar

  • dEBRUYNE
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    June 04, 2015, 10:20:08 AM
     #6289
    Quote from: smooth on June 04, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
    Quote from: MoneroMooo on June 04, 2015, 09:47:09 AM
    Maybe this Poloniex name and country thing is a blessing in disguise, then. It may cause a significant enough amount of trading to go to Bittrex, thereby encouraging more people to trade there too, and we end up with two "large enough" exchanges, one of which is suitable for suit type people who would only trade on a regulated show-me-your-papers exchange (whatever their reasons might be).

    Doesn't it seem likely that bittrex follows along this account verification path fairly soon?

    Since they are US based as well, you can reasonably expect this. Taking this into account, it would make no sense to switch the volume to Bittrex. Furthermore, Poloniex has always been a solid and reliable exchange.
    Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
    Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/

  • mrkavasaki
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    June 04, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
     #6290
    So what Is your Plan if Polo get hacked?  Huh   
    Any idea?  Embarrassed

  • MoneroMooo
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    June 04, 2015, 01:53:59 PM
     #6291
    Quote from: smooth on June 04, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
    Doesn't it seem likely that bittrex follows along this account verification path fairly soon?

    Maybe, I don't know. But it currently is not, and Poloniex apparently decided to do this preemptively, rather than after being forced/notified, so when other exchanges follow is not known. Even if they changed in a month's time, it's still better for people who want to trade and don't want to give names. That's not to say this won't get reversed later, should Bittrex later ask for more information than Poloniex does now (just in case someone decides to reply to what I did not claim).

  • TheKoziTwo
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    June 04, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
     #6292
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
    So what Is your Plan if Polo get hacked?  Huh   
    Any idea?  Embarrassed

    Poloniex already was hacked. They socialized the loss and then paid back losses over several months. It was in fact a lot thanks to XMR that they made enough money through fees to refund users as quickly as they did. It wasn't really a big deal, and I think it won't be even if it happens again. That's what cold storage is for. 
    Truth

  • mrkavasaki
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    June 04, 2015, 02:21:03 PM
     #6293
    Quote from: TheKoziTwo on June 04, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
    So what Is your Plan if Polo get hacked?  Huh  
    Any idea?  Embarrassed

    Poloniex already was hacked. They socialized the loss and then paid back losses over several months. It was in fact a lot thanks to XMR that they made enough money through fees to refund users as quickly as they did. It wasn't really a big deal, and I think it won't be even if it happens again. That's what cold storage is for.  

    What if a significant number of coins get in pirate Hand?
    The Hacker could dump monero into oblivion

  • eizh
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    June 04, 2015, 02:37:25 PM
     #6294
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 02:21:03 PM
    Quote from: TheKoziTwo on June 04, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
    So what Is your Plan if Polo get hacked?  Huh  
    Any idea?  Embarrassed

    Poloniex already was hacked. They socialized the loss and then paid back losses over several months. It was in fact a lot thanks to XMR that they made enough money through fees to refund users as quickly as they did. It wasn't really a big deal, and I think it won't be even if it happens again. That's what cold storage is for.  

    What if a significant number of coins get in pirate Hand?
    The Hacker could dump monero into oblivion

    You're right. There's only one solution: you should preempt this future hacker by dumping your Monero now. Get out before it's too late.

  • newb4now
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    June 04, 2015, 02:44:42 PM
     #6295
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 02:21:03 PM
    Quote from: TheKoziTwo on June 04, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 01:29:28 PM
    So what Is your Plan if Polo get hacked?  Huh  
    Any idea?  Embarrassed

    Poloniex already was hacked. They socialized the loss and then paid back losses over several months. It was in fact a lot thanks to XMR that they made enough money through fees to refund users as quickly as they did. It wasn't really a big deal, and I think it won't be even if it happens again. That's what cold storage is for.  

    What if a significant number of coins get in pirate Hand?
    The Hacker could dump monero into oblivion

    The key is this:

    1. Polo has been good for XMR and XMR has been good for Polo
    2. The more trusted exchanges that add XMR the better
    3. Regardless of which exchange you use, the best practice is to use your own cold storage instead of storing coins on any exchange long term.

  • mrkavasaki
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    June 04, 2015, 03:02:23 PM
     #6296
    ok seems like nobody has really a plan for the worst case scenario Undecided Roll Eyes

    monero is really a unproffesional amateur coin Cheesy

  • luigi1111
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    June 04, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
     #6297
    Quote from: mrkavasaki on June 04, 2015, 03:02:23 PM
    ok seems like nobody has really a plan for the worst case scenario Undecided Roll Eyes

    monero is really a unproffesional amateur coin Cheesy

    I can think of cases far worse than Polo getting hacked.

  • Bassica
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    June 04, 2015, 03:49:44 PM
     #6298
    I think we have been patient enough with this guy. Ban him from the thread. He brings nothing to the table. Even his 'fud' is subpar.

    I don't mind criticism, actually I encourage that. Crypto-money is a brand new concept and differences in implementation, parameters or technology are there to be discussed/battled, but this guy is just a donkey.   

  • hodlmybtc
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    June 04, 2015, 04:01:22 PM
     #6299
    I bet his short isn't working out so good Grin

  • aerbax
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    June 04, 2015, 04:13:33 PM
     #6300
    I ignored him long ago.  Now, if people would just stop quoting him... Smiley
    monerobase.com - A Monero site.  If it's been two weeks since you last visited, it's probably changed its focus yet again.  Wink
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