So could you answer please one of the most important questions for the IoT feature: how the software works terms of real time hardware control. So far none of the IoT coins (BitBay, TileCoin, GadgetCoin) answered this question and I hope you have the answer.
Let see a very simple and basic IoT sample, you have a light switch controlled by an Internet of Things Zigbee switch sensor, how do you turn on/off the light, do you wait 60 seconds until the transaction is included in the blockchain or do you have a workaround to complete the smart contract quicker to execute the hardware control?
I am very interested in your coin :-)) it is a great project and I am sure you have managed to make it work and it would be great to know how the solution works before making a decision about investing in the coin.
Well there are a few techniques to this. With checklocktimeverify, there is a whole bunch of new types of spending we can do. For example, we can spend so coins convert to a different address later, we can lock coins for months at a time. A 2 of 2 multisig account can convert to a 3 of 3 or (really anything)... its all about how you want to program the device.
With that said, most devices will need their own key and will sign on its own behalf. This would be used for more than just spending money. Since you get a secure connection to the device, it can hold coins, it can perform contracts with you etc. Thus, using double deposit we can create a set of rules and protocols interacting with the device. One example is a hardware staking wallet with multisig. At Blackcoin they are working on this. Their lead dev rat4 already coded in multisignature staking. It was lovely. So that just needs to be applied in the context of a device. This is just ONE example. Losing your hardware need NOT lose your coins even in a 2 of 2 multisig since we can lock the coins to convert back to the users key at a later date.
I think you are referring to Peter Todd's CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY implementation. Peter is contracted right now to ViaCoin, in this case they are working on the same stuff as you do. I thought the main issue with the CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY for IoT application is the timing, but I could be wrong. I understand with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY no need to wait for the 10 minutes confirmation time before agreeing on an escrow for example, but I would think for IoT is still not feasible as it will still take 20 seconds or so to complete a contract.
Thanks for your reply, it's great!
This all depends on what you are negotiating. And it may actually require waiting for confirmations. In BlackHalo, i make the client go to escrow after only a few confirmations. Its a series of 3 or 4 transactions and its outline how its done in my whitepaper that comes with the program or found at Bithalo.org
I am still with altcoinUK on this one. I do not want to wait 50ms for my doors to unlock (to quote IBM example on IoT), much less 10 seconds. As I gather, 10 Seconds is blazing fast when it comes to crypto. Also, why would I want a trustless system with my house. What purpose would it have? I only need for my house lock to trust me and vice versa, why would I need a blockchain for that?
IMO this whole concept needs some thinking, not just get-on-blockchain-fadtrain. I can envisage some uses for blockchain based IoT, but having crooks datamining the blockchain to plot a pattern when I am at home and not isn't something I'd really like.
Finally, thanks God :-))) someone who knows what IoT is and what he is talking about :-)))
You are absolutely right, and it seems to me the BitBay DEV simply don't understand the significance of transaction time in real time hardware control, that's why he skipped my question completely - just like the TileCoin DEV. I don't blame them - it is a complex area, but I believe their solution has nothing to do with IoT - as we can see that from their answers.
I think the closest to a working solution is GadgetCoin. At least it seems they understand the concept of Internet of Things, how hardware works, the challenges and their white paper describes a clear solution for 1 second transaction time. Also, as for the family home in the peer to peer shared network, GadgetCoin's white paper says families and businesses can implement the software as a private network, in this case the hardware control is not accessible to the public network.
I think BitBay is a wonderful idea, the smart contract will definitely work for decentralized market, but as you said very correctly the IoT aspect requires lot more work - their IoT solution doesn't even exists in conceptual level.
Well I simply believe that in cases which require realtime or near-realtime blockchain as it exists now, will not and can not be used. Rather some sort of off-chain hybrid system, which could possibly tie in to blockchain for record keeping purposes. However, if its off-chain I think some trust delegation is required. If we're delegating trust, why not just use existing technologies. Ofc, I am still new with all this tech so I might be off the mark
Still, I do not think the physics of bitcoin-style transaction confirmation on can be cheated enough to work realtime. Especially given the limited processing power and network throughput of proposed IoT devices. I am reading up on GadgetCoin now though, maybe they'll convince me otherwise.
Smart contracting, BitBay or Ethereum style, is awesome and has many applications. I will be watching it closely.
