I'm okay with proceeding the discussion here. If we can just leave the hype and fud and see if you guys can poke holes into it then that would be really valuable to future ICO plans.

I can't invest before Bob removes his fake buy walls. Fully manipulated markets like Bitbay are too risky & overpriced.

https://twitter.com/EMC2Whale/status/541279711633354752

It differs from Bitmarkt in the same way it differs from OpenBazaar

It is EXACTLY the same (requires double deposit--from the buyer and the seller, just like BAY). Only "difference" seems to be the use of TOR as opposed to the encryption provided by BAY which is not only vulnerable to hacking but already in the hands of the Bobsurplus hackers --the Taiwanese connection.

And both are bound to fail miserably because no seller is going to put an amount similar to the price of whatever goods or services are being sold and no buyer is going to deposit DOUBLE the amount of the price of those goods and services. It is quite absurd in BOTH cases and none will survive.

But BAY is not designed to survive at all, it is designed to scam money from stupid investors. And on that racket, it has succeeded already... albeit at a much lower level than intended.

On a separate matyter since we have you here, the plans for Vericoin on the SuperNET still include decentralized cloud storage? maybe another ad-hoc decentralized market? I'm sure you have heard of STORJ, since Supernet's OPAL will rent their HDD... it is obvious that there's duplication there...

"cloud storage" is quite a large field.
also storj is actually storage agnostic and their GUI will have built in support for various different storage providers. OPAL using storj and VRC using SuperNET DHT storage are different destination networks.

It seems that the decentralized cloud storage market is fragmenting, before it even really gets started. There are also several other players in this space.

Maybe there is a need to unify them into a single network? Not sure of all the details yet, I am debugging the low level functionality of SuperNET now. The thing to realize is that "cloud storage" is quite a large space and that many different solutions can and will coexist. I doubt anybody believes that any single vendor will get 90%+ marketshare.

James

P.S. On the decentralized markets, again the fragmentation and the need to create a combined single market to the users, even though there are multiple actual markets. This is the foundational idea of SuperNET to create a superset out of all the different fragments and thus creating greater value for all.

Oh I "let" you have any personal views you want, what I don't "let" you is getting away with the INEVITABLE consequences of bot decentralized markets and storage since, inevitably, they will attract illegal activities and, therefore, law enforcement with disastrous effects for everyone involved, including those dealing in legal activities (loss of money and loss of stored property).

I am well aware of the pitfalls of government and democracy itself, but history teaches us that even with those pitfalls it triumphs over anarchy -which is totally inviable- and dictatorship so as long as people support democracy in the US -which is where I live, but not "mine" in any way shape or form- and most of the rest of the world, the world is going to have to live according to laws and rules supported by evolving and alternate majorities. That is a FACT, especially in Law Enforcement, regardless if I like it or not.

As you are fully aware of, regulation is coming imminently to crypto in both the US and Europe. Necessary and positive in the end so, yes I fully support it. And, as long as those are set by democratically elected governments, I support the enforcement of the laws against those who provide playing fields for the crooks and deranged of the world under the cover of "protecting privacy". Every individual I know of, except maybe Howard Hughes, through history, has been more than willing to give up any trace of privacy in exchange for fame and fortune, so, in the end, it is all fake and a monumental lie...

But those are higher philosophical matters not necessarily appropriate for discussion here. What should be discussed, with facts at hands -as I have tried- are both the inevitability of illegal activities in any decentralized environment and the corresponding Law Enforcement action that will follow, since they will have dire effects in the quality of people's investments.

PS.- my personal position on political corruption is not very relevant, is it? But if you know of any decentralized or not solution to it, that would be a net, super or not, that I would fully support. Meanwhile, by voting people that I believe are not corruptible (Ha!) or by not voting anyone, I try to choose the best one to rule -temporarily-. And it bis a privilege still absent in most of the world, by the way... but since you seem to have all the knowledge and the key to full fairness -as well as the financial resources- why don't you come to the forefront and change the world by way of publicly decrying its many pitfalls? You know, Buffet, Gates, Zuckerberg and others are in fact doing it (or trying at least). You seem to be doing... what, creating "assets" like Kevondo's radio, to string people for their money?

The obvious and quick answer, that you choose to ignore through cheap demagogy James is that all of those are REGULATED. Just like crypto is about to be. Everything has its good and its bad and one should hope-admittedly many times against the obvious evidence- that the positives of progress will outweight the negatives.  Demagogy though always has led and always will lead to the latter.

First to market in this case will mean first to failure ... but it is unfortunately an inevitable process.

While I fully agree with everything you just posted here, still you are comparing a legitimate product with a scam, and that's somehow legitimizing it. There's no market, decentralized or otherwise, behind BAY. There will be "clunky software pretending to facilitate such just to allow the distribution of the last 33% of the BTER "sale", but nothing else. No merchants, no sellers of anything, no nothing. It is a SCAM, period. Wall to wall. Comparisons to legitimate projects are simple ludicrous.

regardless of anything else, I would think that the official bitbay thread would be buzzing about bitmarket...

my curiosity was about the tech being so similar and the possibility of the halo software to have been used for the bitmarket. strange that so close to each other, such combo is released. double deposit escrow is not your everyday sort of thing, especially combined with bitmessage. Didnt Bay get a non-compete agreement for its license? or can anybody just license it for 100 BTC?

James