>> (p.1)
    Author Topic: [Proposal] Debt reconstructuring for the Bitcoincia: Pay back later  (Read 2901 times)

    • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:15:17 AM
    Last edit: July 14, 2012, 10:06:05 AM by HorseRider
     #1
    Proposal:
    1. Bitcoinica should admit that they own people money and make sure the amount of it.  But the Bitcoinica users have to wait after the amount of money is confirmed by Bitcoinica.  Bitcoinica pay 70% of the money first,  ASAP.
    2. Intersango should build Bitcoinica from 0 right now, and reopen it ASAP.
    3. Bitcoinica repay the left 30% money they own people with their profit, within like 6-18 month periods after the reopening of bitcoinica, with or without some interest. As the money Bitcoincia owning people is paid by the profit, the new users of Bitcoincia won't have to worry the problem of fractional reserve.

    Anyone setting up a poll for me, please?



    What we know now:

    1.There is not enough money after the hacks, at least now.
    Bitcoinica suffered huge losses, now the Intersango\Bitcoinica\Bitcoin Consultancy don't have the money to pay us back. No matter what kind of legal\illegal action we take, there just not enough money for paying us back.

    2. Lots of people still and will trust  Intersango\Bitcoin Consultancy.

    Genjix\Intersango\Bitcoinica\Bitcoin Consultancy have run their own exchange quite safe, but when they were taking over bitcoinica, they don't have the required time\resources\chance to make it safe. However, some people will still trust Intersango, and if Bitcoincia reopens, lots of people will still do margin trading there.


    3. If Bitcoinica reopens, it would be a profitable business.

    We all know that.


    For every party of this disaster:

    @Genjix\Intersango\Bitcoin Consultancy: He claim that he appreciate the network, the trust he has among bitcoin community. And I don't think he would like the idea that lots of people blame him and being dragged into the legal war.

    Genjix, you should talk. Act like a man, please not be so afraid of talking something "wrong" or "inaccurate".

    If most of the users accept this plan, genjix, why not accept.

    @every bitcoincia users: legal wars cost lots of money. And there is just not enough money. If Bitcoincia can give us promise that they will return the money later, IMO we should be satisfied.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • markm
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 3248
    Merit: 1172



    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:19:45 AM
     #2
    Google battered wife syndrome fergoshsakes willya?

    EDIT: My bad, maybe try Stockholm Syndrome or somesuch? Apparently battered person syndrome doesn't mean officially what it colloquially used to denote: the victim who keeps going back to to the abuser hoping all will be better, batterer promised not to do it again etc etc. Chronic return to batterer syndrome maybe?

    -MarkM-
    Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
    Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:29:36 AM
     #3
    Quote from: markm on July 14, 2012, 04:19:45 AM
    Google battered wife syndrome fergoshsakes willya?

    EDIT: My bad, maybe try Stockholm Syndrome or somesuch? Apparently battered person syndrome doesn't mean officially what it colloquially used to denote: the victim who keeps going back to to the abuser hoping all will be better, batterer promised not to do it again etc etc. Chronic return to batterer syndrome maybe?

    -MarkM-


    So you just think genjix is a scammer, right? but not everyone think so. And you have no 100% sure evidence for this. It's just an reasonable guess.

     if the bitcoinica reopens, lots of people will still chose trust bitcoincia for margin trading.

    genjix has long history in this community, and no scamming rumors around Intersango exchange.  if he reopens the bitcoincia, he has no excuse for another hacking accident.

    Then we have hope for getting the money back with the profit bitcoinica make.

    Of course, Bitcoinica should payback the 70% of the money fisrt. And we still have the weapon of legal action.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • Bitcoin Oz
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 686
    Merit: 500


    Wat


    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:31:54 AM
     #4
    Quote from: HorseRider on July 14, 2012, 04:29:36 AM
    Quote from: markm on July 14, 2012, 04:19:45 AM
    Google battered wife syndrome fergoshsakes willya?

    EDIT: My bad, maybe try Stockholm Syndrome or somesuch? Apparently battered person syndrome doesn't mean officially what it colloquially used to denote: the victim who keeps going back to to the abuser hoping all will be better, batterer promised not to do it again etc etc. Chronic return to batterer syndrome maybe?

    -MarkM-


    So you just think genjix is a scammer, right? but not everyone think so. And you have no 100% sure evidence for this. It's just an reasonable guess.

     if the bitcoinica reopens, lots of people will still chose trust bitcoincia for margin trading.

    genjix has long history in this community, if he reopens the bitcoincia, he has no excuse for another hacking accident.

    Then we have hope for getting the money back with the profit bitcoinica make.

    Of course, Bitcoinica should payback the 70% of the money fisrt.



    He might need to remove all the passwords from the code first....
    http://bitcoin.com.au

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:34:12 AM
     #5
    Quote from: bitcoin.me on July 14, 2012, 04:31:54 AM
    He might need to remove all the passwords from the code first....

    In my understanding, Intersango will rebuild Bitcoincia from scratch.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • markm
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 3248
    Merit: 1172



    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:35:02 AM
     #6
    Quote
    So you just think genjix is a scammer, right?

    Actually no its not Genjix I think did it at all. Zhou Tong and Genjix could easily just be dupes of the lets buy up a trusted site and rape it gang. They both seem [pathetically? naively? childishly? charmingly? can haaz hamburger?] lacking in streetwise.

    -MarkM-
    Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
    Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/

  • kiba
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 980
    Merit: 1029


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:36:31 AM
     #7
    Who the hell will actually put their money in bitcoinica again? Not after a 3rd time, I tell ya. Bitcoinica is doomed.
    Bitcoin Weekly, bitcoin analysis and commentary

  • Bitcoin Oz
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 686
    Merit: 500


    Wat


    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:37:59 AM
     #8
    Quote from: kiba on July 14, 2012, 04:36:31 AM
    Who the hell will actually put their money in bitcoinica again? Not after a 3rd time, I tell ya. Bitcoinica is doomed.

    Maybe they simply change the name   Wink
    http://bitcoin.com.au

  • markm
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 3248
    Merit: 1172



    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:39:22 AM
     #9
    Quote from: bitcoin.me on July 14, 2012, 04:37:59 AM
    Quote from: kiba on July 14, 2012, 04:36:31 AM
    Who the hell will actually put their money in bitcoinica again? Not after a 3rd time, I tell ya. Bitcoinica is doomed.

    Maybe they simply change the name   Wink

    Yes, its already been decided, remember? I saw it announced in one of these threads.

    MyBitcoinica.

    -MarkM-
    Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
    Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:39:26 AM
     #10
    Quote from: kiba on July 14, 2012, 04:36:31 AM
    Who the hell will actually put their money in bitcoinica again? Not after a 3rd time, I tell ya. Bitcoinica is doomed.

    look at the example of Mtgox. Do you trust Mtgox? After all the incidents happens with mtgox, people use it.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:41:11 AM
     #11
    Quote from: markm on July 14, 2012, 04:39:22 AM

    Yes, its already been decided, remember? I saw it announced in one of these threads.

    MyBitcoinica.

    -MarkM-


    I don't think this is said by Intersango team. it's just a joke/sarcasm by the angry and astonished users.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • repentance
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 868
    Merit: 1000


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:41:33 AM
     #12
    1.  It is illegal for companies to continue to trade while insolvent unless they do so under the control of an administrator/receiver.

    2.  When Bitcoinica was taken offline back in May, there was no projected date given for when it would resume trading.

    3.  While creditors can agree to accept less than what they are owed under an insolvency agreement, this involves a proper audit of available assets and distribution by an appointed third party.

    4.  It is not clear at this point whether anyone involved with Bitcoinica would even want to continue operating it.
    All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.

  • markm
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 3248
    Merit: 1172



    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:43:05 AM
     #13
    Quote from: HorseRider on July 14, 2012, 04:41:11 AM
    I don't think this is said by Intersango team. it's just a joke/sarcasm by the angry and astonished users.

    <sarcasm>Ya think?!?!</sarcasm>

    s/Yes, its already been decided, remember? I saw it announced in one of these threads./<sarcasm>Yes, its already been decided, remember? I saw it announced in one of these threads.</sarcasm>/

    Better?

    -MarkM- (And yes, I know, I shoulda used a separator other than ... oops my bad.)
    Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
    Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/

  • Bitcoin Oz
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 686
    Merit: 500


    Wat


    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 04:46:20 AM
     #14
    Quote from: repentance on July 14, 2012, 04:41:33 AM
    1.  It is illegal for companies to continue to trade while insolvent unless they do so under the control of an administrator/receiver.

    2.  When Bitcoinica was taken offline back in May, there was no projected date given for when it would resume trading.

    3.  While creditors can agree to accept less than what they are owed under an insolvency agreement, this involves a proper audit of available assets and distribution by an appointed third party.

    4.  It is not clear at this point whether anyone involved with Bitcoinica would even want to continue operating it.

    http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/personal-insolvency/making-someone-bankrupt

    If you make a legal claim and they fail to pay you by the court ordered date its an act of bankruptcy.
    http://bitcoin.com.au

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:48:24 AM
     #15
    Quote from: repentance on July 14, 2012, 04:41:33 AM
    4.  It is not clear at this point whether anyone involved with Bitcoinica would even want to continue operating it.

    The potential profit of Bitcoinica is the only realistic hope I see for get full repayment. However, we can still take the legal war as a threat to the Bitcoinica.
    Bitcoincia is and will be profitable. I think the 350K USD debt caused from the loss is small money compared with its potential. If the creditors can accept repay the money within 6-18 months, the operation of bitcoincia won't be put into pressure. So I think they should be interested in such circumstances.

    IF, bitcoinica reopens and running with lots of revenue and profit, another round of VC financial might get into this business, and the creditors can get the money back faster than expected.

     
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:50:44 AM
     #16
    give them some time, there will be hope for getting all the money back.

    @genjix, act as a man please. running away from this and make every user suffer 30% loss is not good for your long term reputation.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • bitcoinBull
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 826
    Merit: 1001


    rippleFanatic


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
     #17
    Bitcoin Consultancy/Intersango/Bitcoinica Consultancy don't own bitcoinica so its not up to them.

    Nobody is stopping Tihan, Andrew Thornbury, or whoever bought bitcoinica from launching the site. They're venture capitalists and can certainly afford $300k to give the bitcoinica users 100% of their funds. As far as I'm concerned, they are legally obligated to do so and have been so since the moment they bought bitcoinica from zhoutong. If they trusted bitcoin consultancy with their mtgox password and no 2-factor auth, then its as much their fault that it was stolen.

    Tihan/Thornbury can bear this cost and make it back from profits after they re-launch. Tihan should post and acknowledge whether they will bear the cost, or whether they intend for customers to bear a 30% loss.
    College of Bucking Bulls Knowledge

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 04:59:16 AM
     #18
    Quote from: bitcoinBull on July 14, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
    Bitcoin Consultancy/Intersango/Bitcoinica Consultancy don't own bitcoinica so its not up to them.

    Nobody is stopping Tihan, Andrew Thornbury, or whoever bought bitcoinica from launching the site. They're venture capitalists and can certainly afford $300k to give the bitcoinica users 100% of their funds. As far as I'm concerned, they are legally obligated to do so and have been so since the moment they bought bitcoinica from zhoutong. If they trusted bitcoin consultancy with their mtgox password and no 2-factor auth, then its as much their fault that it was stolen.

    Tihan/Thornbury can bear this cost and make it back from profits after they re-launch. Tihan should post and acknowledge whether they will bear the cost, or whether they intend for customers to bear a 30% loss.

    You're right.

    All the bitcoincia users won't care about the weird legal disputation of "who is the GP or there is no GP". We care about getting back our money. If we cannot, all of you are just BAD. just give us a plan to give back the money. You don't have to give back right now, if you don't have the money,  but a time schedule is required.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P

  • JoelKatz
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1596
    Merit: 1012


    Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


    View Profile WWW
    July 14, 2012, 05:04:06 AM
     #19
    Quote from: HorseRider on July 14, 2012, 04:15:17 AM
    Proposal:
    1. Bitcoinica should admit that they own people money and make sure the amount of it.  But the Bitcoinica users have to wait after the amount of money is confirmed by Bitcoinica
    2. Intersango should build Bitcoinica from 0 right now, and reopen it ASAP.
    3. Bitcoinica repay the money they own people with their profit, within like 6-18 month periods after the reopening of bitcoinica, with or without some interest. As the money Bitcoincia owning people is paid by the profit, the new users of Bitcoincia won't have to worry the problem of fractional reserve.
    Are you serious? There are so many things wrong with this suggestion I don't even know where to start.

    Who will fund this new venture? How will it pay employees? Who will be in charge of its security? Who will pay them? Why would anyone trust this? What if their costs exceed their profits?

    It is extremely hard, as Bitcoinica itself proves, to do this successfully -- even without a massive pile of debt to start with before you even invest a dime in the business. There is no conceivable way a business could succeed starting with such a massive disadvantage.

    And these are just the most obvious problems.
    I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
    1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN

  • HorseRider (OP)
    Donator
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1120
    Merit: 1001


    View Profile
    July 14, 2012, 05:04:33 AM
     #20
    There is a business man in China called Shi Yuzhu （史玉柱）. He had loss lots of money in speculating in the real estate bubble, which drag other people into losses who buying his commercial real estate which never complete the construction. He is bankrupted.

    However, he managed to start other successful business with only 300k RMB and become billionaire again. Then he pay back all the money which legally he won't have to pay back anymore( he was bankrupted)

    I think Intersango/genjix/Tihan should do this likely. reopen the bitcoinica again. it will be a profitable business, and you can pay back the money then.
    16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P
    Pages: [1] 2  All
      Print  
Page 1
Viewing Page: 1

IRLBTC™ © 2025 IRLBTC.com