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    Author Topic: bitcoin fork QUESTION  (Read 1120 times)

    • stopthe_bomb (OP)
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    February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
     #1
    So, I know a lot of people are confused or don't even know what the hell is going on with this proposed bitcoin fork.

    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side? Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak? Will it require a new bitcoin client and bitcoin blockchain? What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork, and will this be the last time it is changed? (obviously some of these questions cannot be definitively answered, such as last time it will need changed) Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

  • ronald98
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    February 03, 2015, 11:46:08 PM
     #2
    There is a thread about the fork proposal.

    https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/941331.0

  • QuestionAuthority
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    February 03, 2015, 11:48:43 PM
     #3
    The merit system isn’t working. Read this thread to see why.

  • dancing altcoin shiva
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    February 04, 2015, 01:54:30 AM
    Last edit: February 04, 2015, 02:06:19 AM by dancing altcoin shiva
     #4
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    So, I know a lot of people are confused or don't even know what the hell is going on with this proposed bitcoin fork.

    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side? Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak? Will it require a new bitcoin client and bitcoin blockchain? What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork, and will this be the last time it is changed? (obviously some of these questions cannot be definitively answered, such as last time it will need changed) Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    When the fork is coming and you do not update you will be automatically on the MPcoin chain with the smaller blockchain - and everything remains as it is now for you. When you do update you will go to the Gavincoin chain with max. 1000GB storage use in a year on your system.

    You can actually do both and have the Bitcoins twice. (once on Gavincoin and once on MPcoin)

    Different exchanges may support Gavincoin, Mpcoin or both - basically Bitcoin will end right there and the chaos that was promised by Gavin will become a reality.

    Will it be the last change? No, at least not on Gavincoin. Mpcoin could well remain unchanged and thus be the more integer blockchain. On Gavincoin you'd need to brace yourself to hardfork at least twice a year as they intend to make hardforks a habbit. (next time for sidechains and so on)

    About having coins twice:
    I think depending to who you send coin on either of the chain they could broadcast the same transaction on the other chain and thus taking your coins on the other chain. So using Bitcoin becomes totally unsafe. I personally predict Mpcoin will survive (with much smaller cap than is now) and Gavincoin plummet to zero after being pumped. (my personal prediction)

    In any case it is recommended for noobs to stay away from bitcoin alltogether and use altcoins like Litecoin, Dogecoin and others instead to remain safe - or if you must hold bitcoin for the fork: don't move them afterwards. It will be epic chaos and could sink bitcoin, and i think it will.

  • mayax
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    February 04, 2015, 03:09:14 AM
     #5
    Quote from: dancing altcoin shiva on February 04, 2015, 01:54:30 AM
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    So, I know a lot of people are confused or don't even know what the hell is going on with this proposed bitcoin fork.

    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side? Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak? Will it require a new bitcoin client and bitcoin blockchain? What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork, and will this be the last time it is changed? (obviously some of these questions cannot be definitively answered, such as last time it will need changed) Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    When the fork is coming and you do not update you will be automatically on the MPcoin chain with the smaller blockchain - and everything remains as it is now for you. When you do update you will go to the Gavincoin chain with max. 1000GB storage use in a year on your system.

    You can actually do both and have the Bitcoins twice. (once on Gavincoin and once on MPcoin)

    Different exchanges may support Gavincoin, Mpcoin or both - basically Bitcoin will end right there and the chaos that was promised by Gavin will become a reality.

    Will it be the last change? No, at least not on Gavincoin. Mpcoin could well remain unchanged and thus be the more integer blockchain. On Gavincoin you'd need to brace yourself to hardfork at least twice a year as they intend to make hardforks a habbit. (next time for sidechains and so on)

    About having coins twice:
    I think depending to who you send coin on either of the chain they could broadcast the same transaction on the other chain and thus taking your coins on the other chain. So using Bitcoin becomes totally unsafe. I personally predict Mpcoin will survive (with much smaller cap than is now) and Gavincoin plummet to zero after being pumped. (my personal prediction)

    In any case it is recommended for noobs to stay away from bitcoin alltogether and use altcoins like Litecoin, Dogecoin and others instead to remain safe - or if you must hold bitcoin for the fork: don't move them afterwards. It will be epic chaos and could sink bitcoin, and i think it will.




    when will this fork happen?

  • zimmah
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    February 04, 2015, 03:16:21 AM
     #6
    Quote from: dancing altcoin shiva on February 04, 2015, 01:54:30 AM
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    So, I know a lot of people are confused or don't even know what the hell is going on with this proposed bitcoin fork.

    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side? Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak? Will it require a new bitcoin client and bitcoin blockchain? What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork, and will this be the last time it is changed? (obviously some of these questions cannot be definitively answered, such as last time it will need changed) Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    When the fork is coming and you do not update you will be automatically on the MPcoin chain with the smaller blockchain - and everything remains as it is now for you. When you do update you will go to the Gavincoin chain with max. 1000GB storage use in a year on your system.

    You can actually do both and have the Bitcoins twice. (once on Gavincoin and once on MPcoin)

    Different exchanges may support Gavincoin, Mpcoin or both - basically Bitcoin will end right there and the chaos that was promised by Gavin will become a reality.

    Will it be the last change? No, at least not on Gavincoin. Mpcoin could well remain unchanged and thus be the more integer blockchain. On Gavincoin you'd need to brace yourself to hardfork at least twice a year as they intend to make hardforks a habbit. (next time for sidechains and so on)

    About having coins twice:
    I think depending to who you send coin on either of the chain they could broadcast the same transaction on the other chain and thus taking your coins on the other chain. So using Bitcoin becomes totally unsafe. I personally predict Mpcoin will survive (with much smaller cap than is now) and Gavincoin plummet to zero after being pumped. (my personal prediction)

    In any case it is recommended for noobs to stay away from bitcoin alltogether and use altcoins like Litecoin, Dogecoin and others instead to remain safe - or if you must hold bitcoin for the fork: don't move them afterwards. It will be epic chaos and could sink bitcoin, and i think it will.




    yeah because altcoins are really long term investments like bitcoin.

    the 1 MB cap was meant as a temporarily anti-spam measure, and soon it will do more harm than good. It needs to go.

  • DannyHamilton
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    February 04, 2015, 03:33:56 AM
     #7
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side?

    They will have different blocks in the blockchain and therefore different records of which transactions are confirmed.

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak?

    No.  All bitcoins mined (or received in confirmed transactions) prior to the fork will exist in both systems.  Any bitcoins mined after the fork will exist only in the system where it is mined.  Transactions that are received after the fork may exist in both system or may be isolated to the system where it is sent (it will depend on the specific technical details of each transaction).

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    Will it require a new bitcoin client

    That depends on which fork you want to participate in.  If you want to participate in the fork with the larger blocks, then you'll need to upgrade your bitcoin client.

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    and bitcoin blockchain?

    The two chains will be identical up to the point where they fork.  After that each system will see it's own blocks added to its own copy of that chain and will ignore the blocks from the other system.

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork,

    The current limitation it 1 megabyte per block. Given the current average size of a transaction, this work out to a system that can confirm about 4200 transactions per block. Since blocks are solved on average every 10 minutes, this works out to a system that can confirm about 7 transactions per second.

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    and will this be the last time it is changed?

    Impossible to predict. I'd guess probably not.

    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    No.

  • balu2
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    February 04, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
     #8
    Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 04, 2015, 03:33:56 AM


    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    No.

    well, yes. Amount will exactly double - so value should halve at least. (formally one coin with one cap - then two coins with less cap combined as everyone with a brain will cash out before the madness occures)

    A pair Gavincoin/Mpcoin for the direct warfare can be expected on some exchange. It'll be fun to watch but certainly nothing anyone wants to get caught up in. War could go on for months but eventually both coins become worthless in the end and will be replaced with altcoins.

    Maybe people get good arbitrage opportuninty in case chaos isn't too omnipresent to even move coins on any of the two chains safely.

    Probably 51% attacks from either side can be expected aswell as wild fluctuations not only in price but also in hash of both coin. It will be an epic act of cannibalism. So, really noobs should stay away from the mad people. This isn't even fun. Better buy yourself Litecoin and dogecoin already and dump btc on the next peak like everyone else.

  • DannyHamilton
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    February 04, 2015, 02:17:48 PM
     #9
    Quote from: balu2 on February 04, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
    Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 04, 2015, 03:33:56 AM
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?
    No.
    well, yes. Amount will exactly double - so value should halve at least. (formally one coin with one cap - then two coins with less cap combined as everyone with a brain will cash out before the madness occures)

    I disagree.  It isn't accurate to say that the total number of bitcoins will increase. Effectively one of the forks will be "bitcoin" and the other will be an altcoin.  If that means that the total number of coins has increased, then every altcoin that has ever been created is an increase in total bitcoins.

    Quote from: balu2 on February 04, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
    A pair Gavincoin/Mpcoin for the direct warfare can be expected on some exchange. It'll be fun to watch but certainly nothing anyone wants to get caught up in. War could go on for months but eventually both coins become worthless in the end and will be replaced with altcoins.

    Maybe people get good arbitrage opportuninty in case chaos isn't too omnipresent to even move coins on any of the two chains safely.

    Probably 51% attacks from either side can be expected aswell as wild fluctuations not only in price but also in hash of both coin. It will be an epic act of cannibalism.

    While this is one possible scenario, it is the most pessimistic, alarmist, and paranoid possibility.

    It is also possible that the fork is implemented so well that the vast majority of users immediately accept it.  There is no warfare. There is no arbitrage opportunity. There is no chaos.  The widely accepted new code maintains and grows in value while the old protocol fades away into obscurity, abandoned to the purists and idealists that can't adapt.

    It is also possible that supporters of the new fork vastly overestimate the support they have in the community.  They try to push the change through clumsily and ineffectively.  The vast majority of users immediately reject it.  There is no warfare. There is no arbitrage opportunity. There is no chaos.  The widely accepted old code maintains and grows in value while the new protocol fades away into obscurity, serving as a valuable lesson about the importance of consensus and overconfidence to its supporters.

    There are an infinite number of possibilities in between those extremes.

  • mayax
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    February 04, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
     #10
    who decide the change? don't tell me "the community", please Smiley

  • turvarya
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    February 04, 2015, 02:31:22 PM
     #11
    Quote from: dancing altcoin shiva on February 04, 2015, 01:54:30 AM
    Quote from: stopthe_bomb on February 03, 2015, 11:35:50 PM
    So, I know a lot of people are confused or don't even know what the hell is going on with this proposed bitcoin fork.

    My biggest question, is, if the fork is implemented, how will 1 side of the fork be differentiated from the other side? Will all previously mined bitcoins become obsolete so to speak? Will it require a new bitcoin client and bitcoin blockchain? What is the limitation of the current block size that would require a bitcoin fork, and will this be the last time it is changed? (obviously some of these questions cannot be definitively answered, such as last time it will need changed) Will this fork increase the total number of bitcoins to be made?

    When the fork is coming and you do not update you will be automatically on the MPcoin chain with the smaller blockchain - and everything remains as it is now for you. When you do update you will go to the Gavincoin chain with max. 1000GB storage use in a year on your system.

    You can actually do both and have the Bitcoins twice. (once on Gavincoin and once on MPcoin)

    Different exchanges may support Gavincoin, Mpcoin or both - basically Bitcoin will end right there and the chaos that was promised by Gavin will become a reality.

    Will it be the last change? No, at least not on Gavincoin. Mpcoin could well remain unchanged and thus be the more integer blockchain. On Gavincoin you'd need to brace yourself to hardfork at least twice a year as they intend to make hardforks a habbit. (next time for sidechains and so on)

    About having coins twice:
    I think depending to who you send coin on either of the chain they could broadcast the same transaction on the other chain and thus taking your coins on the other chain. So using Bitcoin becomes totally unsafe. I personally predict Mpcoin will survive (with much smaller cap than is now) and Gavincoin plummet to zero after being pumped. (my personal prediction)

    In any case it is recommended for noobs to stay away from bitcoin alltogether and use altcoins like Litecoin, Dogecoin and others instead to remain safe - or if you must hold bitcoin for the fork: don't move them afterwards. It will be epic chaos and could sink bitcoin, and i think it will.


    I lol'ed.
    Taking coins from the other chain? Sure, I can do that, just let me grab my magic, invisible miner to show you how.
    https://forum.bitcoin.com/
    New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.

  • turvarya
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    February 04, 2015, 02:40:56 PM
     #12
    Quote from: mayax on February 04, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
    who decide the change? don't tell me "the community", please Smiley
    1. it depends on, what client you are using.
    2. it depends on the miners.

    It is theoretical possible, that 99% of all users switch to the new blockchain, but just 10% of the miners, so just 10% of the hash rate, which makes it more vulnerable.

    But I think, the most realistic scenario is, that there is a new Bitcoin Core Client, all the alternative clients adapt the code, the miners(the pools), too, and nobody(the users) really notices the change.

    Since, I am using NXT, there was at least one hard fork, and I wouldn't have noticed it, wouldn't have I heard about it at LetTalkBitcoin
    https://forum.bitcoin.com/
    New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.

  • mayax
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    February 04, 2015, 02:46:36 PM
     #13
    it will be a good choice.

    there will be 2 networks. two prices and so on. Smiley

     there will be many who will not update because they don't want that.

  • Diver6691
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    February 04, 2015, 10:07:38 PM
     #14
    Which chain "blockchain.info" will use?

  • mayax
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    February 04, 2015, 10:20:40 PM
     #15
    Quote from: Diver6691 on February 04, 2015, 10:07:38 PM
    Which chain "blockchain.info" will use?


    blockshit2.info  Smiley
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