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    Author Topic: XMR vs DRK  (Read 69821 times)
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    • illodin
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    March 25, 2015, 01:14:20 AM
     #181
    Quote from: Joshuar on March 25, 2015, 12:42:50 AM
    Thanks, you make a awful lot of sense choosing dishonesty over integrity. Maybe I should just hop on the next coin that instamines 50% of it's supply and call it a day. What words of wisdom my friend. I now classify Monero as "beyond an altcoin" for being a diamond in the rough, since your words are the same sentiment shared by most in the altcoin space, you just care about shit pumps/dumps. You are exactly the reason why Bitcoiners generally think of altcoins as shitcoins.

    I'm 100% sure if a coin came along you knew was a scam, and also knew for sure it's gonna go up 100% tomorrow, you'd fistpump buy as much as you could of it today.


    Quote from: kazuki49 on March 25, 2015, 12:56:22 AM
    Yup, if Monero had any kind of instamine/premine or emission manipulation I would never touch it, like I don't touch DRK.

    And same to you.

  • xxxgoodgirls
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    March 25, 2015, 01:16:10 AM
     #182
    Quote from: othe on March 25, 2015, 01:13:22 AM
    Quote
    1. Reporting to the FinCEN, the FBI, and the SEC for which law infringement? How would they seize the coins considering that the majority of the MN operator hold their funds in hot/cold storage?

    2. Running MNs under Tor can avoid this, making DDoSsing the network expensive as fuck.

    1. They come to you, and take your coins, ask ross ulbricht.
    2. Hyprocrites, i thought u guys are advertising your high speed masternodes and now u want to hide them behind tor?

    1. For what law infringement?
    2. Tor is not as slow as back in the days, you would not see any performance difference since MN bandwidth usage is really low.
    In summary, the Intel Management Engine and its applications are a backdoor with total access to and control over the rest of the PC. The ME is a threat to freedom, security, and privacy, and the libreboot project strongly recommends avoiding it entirely. Since recent versions of it can’t be removed, this means avoiding all recent generations of Intel hardware. details https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme --- https://tehnoetic.com/laptops --- https://store.vikings.net/x200-ryf-certfied

  • smooth
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    March 25, 2015, 01:16:14 AM
     #183
    Quote from: majamina on March 25, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 12:00:42 AM
    The biggest problem with Monero is that it's being lead by people with zero business sense.

    If it were a business your opinion on the matter of our "business sense" might count for something, but it isn't and it isn't trying to be one either. You might reconsider your statement in light of that. I have a pretty good idea you have no clue what you are talking about.

    are you not trying to compete in a space where big business is increasingly present....some business smarts would count for something, surely?

    I think you are digging yourself into a hole (more like a bottomless pit) if you think there are no "business smarts" on the Monero team.

    There is a huge difference between that and suggesting that an open source project be treated as a business rather than an open process including engagement with the broader community (not just true believers) and being not only open to but participating in public criticism and debate. That's way too much like sausage making for most businesses (e.g Starbucks withdrawing from social media recently), but it's how open source works.

  • BlockaFett
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    March 25, 2015, 01:19:41 AM
     #184
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 01:16:14 AM
    Quote from: majamina on March 25, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 12:00:42 AM
    The biggest problem with Monero is that it's being lead by people with zero business sense.

    If it were a business your opinion on the matter of our "business sense" might count for something, but it isn't and it isn't trying to be one either. You might reconsider your statement in light of that. I have a pretty good idea you have no clue what you are talking about.

    are you not trying to compete in a space where big business is increasingly present....some business smarts would count for something, surely?

    I think you are digging yourself into a hole (more like a bottomless pit) if you think there are no "business smarts" on the Monero team.

    There is a huge difference between that and suggesting that an open source project be treated as a business rather than an open process including engagement with the broader community (not just true believers) and being not only open to but participating in public criticism and debate. That's way too much like sausage making for most businesses (e.g Starbucks withdrawing from social media recently), but it's how open source works.



    i nearly fell asleep halfway through your paragraph. which coupled with how you broke the first rule in business 'never slander the competition' suggests that he has a point.

  • smooth
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    March 25, 2015, 01:19:49 AM
     #185
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:11:27 AM
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 12:58:48 AM
    you mean like this http://da-data.blogspot.de/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

    "As a note:  I make some positive statements about Monero in here, and I really do admire the technical advance it represents in anonymous cryptocurrencies."


    and

    Quote
    This would be a very reasonable thing to assert if I had anything to do with Monero.  I don't.  In fact, to the best of my knowledge, none of the people who profited from early optimized Monero mining had anything to do with crippling the code in the first place.

    Think of it this way:  You step in and inherit a legacy codebase for a promising and interesting new cryptocurrency.  You're immediately beset with demands -- fix bugs, release binaries, answer help questions, etc.  In retrospect, it turns out that the code you took over had been de-optimized by its original creators.  Is that your fault?  Of course not.  What's the standard that we should hold the Monero developers to?  To fix any bugs or deliberate weaknesses as fast as they can after they become aware of it.  To get up to speed and review and understand the codebase they inherited as quickly as a reasonable developer can do.

    It's quite amusing when the DRK people bring this up as some sort of response to their instamine shenanigans. First of all it isn't responsive at all when challenged about ones own misdeeds to point to what some other person did (especially when it isn't even the same thing), and second of all, DRK has had had plenty of private optimized miners (still does).

  • fluffypony
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    March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM
     #186
    Quote from: xxxgoodgirls on March 25, 2015, 01:10:24 AM
    1. Reporting to the FinCEN, the FBI, and the SEC for which law infringement? How would they seize the coins considering that the majority of the MN operator hold their funds in hot/cold storage?

    2. Running MNs under Tor can avoid this, making DDoSsing the network expensive as fuck.

    Thoughts?

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.

  • smooth
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    March 25, 2015, 01:23:25 AM
     #187
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 01:19:41 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 01:16:14 AM
    Quote from: majamina on March 25, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 12:00:42 AM
    The biggest problem with Monero is that it's being lead by people with zero business sense.

    If it were a business your opinion on the matter of our "business sense" might count for something, but it isn't and it isn't trying to be one either. You might reconsider your statement in light of that. I have a pretty good idea you have no clue what you are talking about.

    are you not trying to compete in a space where big business is increasingly present....some business smarts would count for something, surely?

    I think you are digging yourself into a hole (more like a bottomless pit) if you think there are no "business smarts" on the Monero team.

    There is a huge difference between that and suggesting that an open source project be treated as a business rather than an open process including engagement with the broader community (not just true believers) and being not only open to but participating in public criticism and debate. That's way too much like sausage making for most businesses (e.g Starbucks withdrawing from social media recently), but it's how open source works.



    i nearly fell asleep halfway through your paragraph. which coupled with how you broke the first rule in business 'never be seen to slander the competition' suggests that he has a point.

    There is so "slander" as my statements are true and all backed up by factual references. BTW, if you write a post accusing someone of slander when there is no slander, that is libel. Unless you want to continue doing that, you should stop. And again, this isn't a business, it is public criticism and debate about open source projects.

  • Brilliantrocket
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    March 25, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
     #188
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.
    They can't seize the coins because they aren't held in a wallet on the machine/instance running the masternode. The best you could do by getting access to a masternode is shut it down.

  • paratox
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    March 25, 2015, 01:25:13 AM
     #189
    Quote from: Jeff8247 on March 25, 2015, 01:01:01 AM
    LOL 5 monero devs here and not 1 darkcoin dev. There was clearly no fucks given by the drk devs!

    That's one possible view of the situation. Another possibility could be, that Drk devs know that the critics about their tech is valid , so they refrain from openly acknowledging them.

    Why don't they put an end to these discussion by showing the community a mathematical prove that their tech is sound?

    ___

    I think a lot of misunderstanding between DRK Folks and XMR folks lies in their priorities.  For some the Marketcap seems more important/crucial, for others it's the technology behind it. Ideally it should be both.  

    Imagine for a moment that the marketcaps were the otherway around. If XMR would have 7x 5x the marketcap of DRK, would there still be as much support for DRK ?(Please don't answer to this question, it's meant to be rhetorical)

  • fluffypony
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    March 25, 2015, 01:25:47 AM
     #190
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.
    They can't seize the coins because they aren't held in a wallet on the machine/instance running the masternode. The best you could do by getting access to a masternode is shut it down.

    I think you need to click through to the Wikipedia link...

  • othe
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    March 25, 2015, 01:26:16 AM
     #191
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.
    They can't seize the coins because they aren't held in a wallet on the machine/instance running the masternode. The best you could do by getting access to a masternode is shut it down.

    So you guys are paying your AWS machines with stolen credit cards - thats why you arent traceable?
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

  • Brilliantrocket
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    March 25, 2015, 01:27:25 AM
     #192
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:25:47 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.
    They can't seize the coins because they aren't held in a wallet on the machine/instance running the masternode. The best you could do by getting access to a masternode is shut it down.

    I think you need to click through to the Wikipedia link...
    Cheesy missed that one

  • BlockaFett
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    March 25, 2015, 01:27:49 AM
     #193
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 01:23:25 AM
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 01:19:41 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 01:16:14 AM
    Quote from: majamina on March 25, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
    Quote from: smooth on March 25, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 12:00:42 AM
    The biggest problem with Monero is that it's being lead by people with zero business sense.

    If it were a business your opinion on the matter of our "business sense" might count for something, but it isn't and it isn't trying to be one either. You might reconsider your statement in light of that. I have a pretty good idea you have no clue what you are talking about.

    are you not trying to compete in a space where big business is increasingly present....some business smarts would count for something, surely?

    I think you are digging yourself into a hole (more like a bottomless pit) if you think there are no "business smarts" on the Monero team.

    There is a huge difference between that and suggesting that an open source project be treated as a business rather than an open process including engagement with the broader community (not just true believers) and being not only open to but participating in public criticism and debate. That's way too much like sausage making for most businesses (e.g Starbucks withdrawing from social media recently), but it's how open source works.



    i nearly fell asleep halfway through your paragraph. which coupled with how you broke the first rule in business 'never be seen to slander the competition' suggests that he has a point.

    There is so "slander" as my statements are true and all backed up by factual references. BTW, if you write a post accusing someone of slander when there is no slander, that is libel. Unless you want to continue doing that, you should stop. And again, this isn't a business, it is public criticism and debate about open source projects.




    wow - legal threats now?  You have the exact M.O. of a scammer in every sense of the word.   Check my sig and read about Alex Green, he just talked marketing BS all day, did no work, and always threw legal threats around every time anyone got close to his massive BS marketing scam just like you too.  How's that?

  • Sapereaude
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    March 25, 2015, 01:29:10 AM
     #194
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:06:28 AM
    Quote from: Sapereaude on March 25, 2015, 12:56:05 AM
    Quote from: Sapereaude on March 25, 2015, 12:54:09 AM
    3 subjects lol, wow to even get a basic t-test of this proof you would need at least 30 ppl for a weak application of statistical validity to apply.

    Also fine go ahead I will pay up, it will just prove your stop-gap is so shit you have to pay people to vote for it.

    A "weak"?

    Also, are we talking about face validity or just conclusion validity? Part of me wonders if you're not alluding to some sort of convergent validity that would be expected from this.

    But, really, I was just talking about a relatively simple acid test, best-of-3 to ensure there's no accidental skew. For $500.

    Would you like to suggest someone that is known and unbiased that can hold our funds in escrow and facilitate this? I suggest we offer them 50% of the pot for the effort they'll need to expend, and the remaining 50% goes to the winning cryptocurrency's donation address.

    Clearly you need to brush up on statistics and the importance of sample size.

    But I would be happy for a poll on Bitcointalk to decided this, limited to users with at least 50 posts. If the poll reaches 800 users and the result is 60% in your favor I will be happy to say you have won the the bet.


    Poll Question - Is a working GUI wallet better than Moneros current Stop-gap solution?

    A)Yes
    B)No

    As for holding the funds in escrow I am happy with those terms and any of the bigwigs in the darkcoin thread works for me.

  • Brilliantrocket
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    March 25, 2015, 01:30:05 AM
     #195
    Quote from: othe on March 25, 2015, 01:26:16 AM
    Quote from: Brilliantrocket on March 25, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.
    They can't seize the coins because they aren't held in a wallet on the machine/instance running the masternode. The best you could do by getting access to a masternode is shut it down.

    So you guys are paying your AWS machines with stolen credit cards - thats why you arent traceable?
    Some hosting companies accept Darkcoin  Grin

  • xxxgoodgirls
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    March 25, 2015, 01:31:15 AM
     #196
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:21:08 AM
    Quote from: xxxgoodgirls on March 25, 2015, 01:10:24 AM
    1. Reporting to the FinCEN, the FBI, and the SEC for which law infringement? How would they seize the coins considering that the majority of the MN operator hold their funds in hot/cold storage?

    2. Running MNs under Tor can avoid this, making DDoSsing the network expensive as fuck.

    Thoughts?

    1. Not holding an MSB license (FinCEN), involvement in a security unregistered with the federal government (SEC), facilitating the purchase of child pornography drugs firearms (FBI). They would seize the coins through rubber-hose cryptanalysis.

    2. It would also make the network significantly slower - those MNs would have exclusively use Tor for everything, any normal IP connections would leak that they're an MN by virtue of them broadcasting Darksend TXs etc. Additionally, this doesn't prevent MN operator collusion etc.

    1. How is running a MN different from running a tor or a bitcoin node?
    2. A MN uses around 500MB in and 500MB out per days, that's 5.7 kb/s. Tor would handle it with no slowing down.
    In summary, the Intel Management Engine and its applications are a backdoor with total access to and control over the rest of the PC. The ME is a threat to freedom, security, and privacy, and the libreboot project strongly recommends avoiding it entirely. Since recent versions of it can’t be removed, this means avoiding all recent generations of Intel hardware. details https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme --- https://tehnoetic.com/laptops --- https://store.vikings.net/x200-ryf-certfied

  • David Latapie
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    March 25, 2015, 01:31:32 AM
     #197
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 12:49:26 AM
    I didn't know there were 5 MONERO DEVS on here. That is hilarious Cheesy

    EDIT: if you so idle why don't you apply for job as Drk dev, they are hiring hard working devs!!!  oh, wait,
    After working on their project, some people watch TV or videos to relax. Me, I eat popcorn reading the DRK drama unfolding again. That's how I found 18 reasons why DRK i broken. FYI, I found 7 more last week. And 1 more again today.

    All of this is my free time. You know, the one when I'm not working on making the world a better place.
    Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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  • BlockaFett
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    March 25, 2015, 01:32:20 AM
     #198
    Quote from: David Latapie on March 25, 2015, 01:31:32 AM
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 12:49:26 AM
    I didn't know there were 5 MONERO DEVS on here. That is hilarious Cheesy

    EDIT: if you so idle why don't you apply for job as Drk dev, they are hiring hard working devs!!!  oh, wait,
    After working on their project, some people watch TV or video to relax. Me, I eat popcorn reading the DRK draùa unfolding again. That's how I found 18 reasons why DRK i broken. FYI, I found 7 more last week. And 1 more again today.

    All of this is my free time. You know, the one when I'm not working on making the world a better place.

    so you are going to publish your results here, and go collect the drk bounty for finding security issues?

  • vokain
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    March 25, 2015, 01:34:15 AM
     #199
    Quote from: Sapereaude on March 25, 2015, 01:29:10 AM
    Quote from: fluffypony on March 25, 2015, 01:06:28 AM
    Quote from: Sapereaude on March 25, 2015, 12:56:05 AM
    Quote from: Sapereaude on March 25, 2015, 12:54:09 AM
    3 subjects lol, wow to even get a basic t-test of this proof you would need at least 30 ppl for a weak application of statistical validity to apply.

    Also fine go ahead I will pay up, it will just prove your stop-gap is so shit you have to pay people to vote for it.

    A "weak"?

    Also, are we talking about face validity or just conclusion validity? Part of me wonders if you're not alluding to some sort of convergent validity that would be expected from this.

    But, really, I was just talking about a relatively simple acid test, best-of-3 to ensure there's no accidental skew. For $500.

    Would you like to suggest someone that is known and unbiased that can hold our funds in escrow and facilitate this? I suggest we offer them 50% of the pot for the effort they'll need to expend, and the remaining 50% goes to the winning cryptocurrency's donation address.

    Clearly you need to brush up on statistics and the importance of sample size.

    But I would be happy for a poll on Bitcointalk to decided this, limited to users with at least 50 posts. If the poll reaches 800 users and the result is 60% in your favor I will be happy to say you have won the the bet.


    Poll Question - Is a working GUI wallet better than Moneros current Stop-gap solution?

    A)Yes
    B)No

    As for holding the funds in escrow I am happy with those terms and any of the bigwigs in the darkcoin thread works for me.


    But the question leaves out the reasoning. It's not black and white

    A, yes, because more is better
    But if yes is at the expense of the actual underlying engine behind the skin, then of course not, and it ignores the fact that there are several implementations of Monero GUIs.

  • David Latapie
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    March 25, 2015, 01:37:36 AM
     #200
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 01:32:20 AM
    Quote from: David Latapie on March 25, 2015, 01:31:32 AM
    Quote from: BlockaFett on March 25, 2015, 12:49:26 AM
    I didn't know there were 5 MONERO DEVS on here. That is hilarious Cheesy

    EDIT: if you so idle why don't you apply for job as Drk dev, they are hiring hard working devs!!!  oh, wait,
    After working on their project, some people watch TV or video to relax. Me, I eat popcorn reading the DRK drama unfolding again. That's how I found 18 reasons why DRK i broken. FYI, I found 7 more last week. And 1 more again today.

    All of this is my free time. You know, the one when I'm not working on making the world a better place.

    so you are going to publish your results here, and go collect the drk bounty for finding security issues?
    You should read more closely. I help you: look the parts I bolded.
    Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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