Since there is no law on the books in the USA that prescribes capital punishment for working on the sabbath yes it would be murder.

Do you think executing a convicted rapist and killer is murder?

The 10 commandments say nothing about the punishment for violating them. Clearly today there is no immediate worldly punishment for violating many of them.

Other parts of the Bible do describe how the ancient Israelites attempted to enforce them but those are discussed elsewhere.

You seem to be attempting to show that the commandments are bad because they cannot be effectively enforced in modern times. I won't go into the logical flaws of that argument because they are self evident.

Do you agree of killing people that work on the sabbath? Yes or No

No this is Moloch rabbit hole. He is the one who wanted to talk about the moral merits of the 10 commandments and you seem to want to talk about everything else besides the topic raised.

The question was are the ten commandments good? That is what Dennis Prager address.

You keep wanting to talk about the problems that arise from forcing everyone to follow them under penalty of law. Different topic entirely.


I literally just answered this question minutes ago.

https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/1054513.msg46806852#msg46806852

No I do not believe we should murder people.

Why are you so disorganized in your thinking? I thought you valued science and logic.

Ok one last time the question above was Are the 10 commandments good?

You are attempting to answer a different question. You are asking if we should execute people who break one of the 10 commandments. That's a different question which I can only assume you are obsessed with because the answer to the actual question is so obviously yes they are good.

Nevertheless since you appear to be very concerned with this particular query I will walk you step by step through the logic of how to figure it out.

#1 First you need to determine if the commandments are good. Dennis Prager videos are a good place to start on that front. Hint: The answer is yes they are.

#2 Second you need to figure out the best way for society to implement good commandments. That gets a little tricker but the answer is that it is best if they are willingly and voluntary agreed to and followed.

#3 Third once you determine rules are good and should be followed voluntarily you need to decide if the rules should be codified into law with punishments to force compliance upon those who disagree with the rules.

Here it gets very tricky. How much freedom do we extend to people who don't agree us. Clearly in the case of murder not much. We cannot extend much freedom at all to the murderer regardless of how strongly he justifies murder or society will soon crumble.

In other areas like adultery it is harder. Adultry is clearly harmful to society but should we make it a crime? The more we legislate morality via force the more we reduce the value inherent in making the right choices. When in doubt it is better to error on the side of freedom especially when the fallout for evil actions can be largely contained with consequences falling mostly on the perpetrators. Part of the learning process requires the ability to error and learn from those errors.

#4 Finally if you determine that it is necessary to legislate a rule into law you need to determine a punishment for breaking the law. This is your question. Should we execute people who work on the Sabbath.

Your question about executions is not really an honest question because it assumes the answer to steps 1-3 are all yes which I very much doubt you believe.

Nevertheless, since you are so interested in my answer it is no. I think people should voluntarily go to Church or Synagogue on the Sabbath and not work, but the consequences for not doing so largely falls on them. One way these consequences manifest is in reduced health and happiness as I outlined in the Health and Religion thread. Thus I think not working on the Sabbath should be voluntarily followed and not codified into law.

Exactly!... now you get it!

People do not need religion to be good or moral... it is 100% unnecessary

Most religious people have never even read their holy book(s)... most christians can't even name 5 of the 10 commandments...

Their religion did not make them good people... they were good people before they were duped into believing religious nonsense

People are good... religions are bad...

"Without religion, good people do good things, and bad people do bad things... but it takes something like religion to make good people do bad things"
(example: flying planes into the towers on 9/11 would not have happened without religion)

The science and atheism religions are among the worst religions that we have. Why? Because in some ways they play on the logic that everyone uses. Then somebody turns the parts that are not logical (often science theory) into religious beliefs, like believing they (the theories) are true and real, when nobody knows that they are true and real.

In addition, everybody can see that big fallacy in atheism, that nobody knows that God doesn't exist, but that nature and the universe by their existence prove that God exists.

So, these two religions, science and atheism, are attempting to turn everybody from truth and reality.

You can't seriously believe that can you?

Number 10 short and (un)sweet caught my eye.

And I have to say definitely and firmly no: Materialism is true - it is all material in layers of complexity from the tiniest imaginable to the most [cosmically] colossal imaginable.

Within this material structure we discover ourselves not only subjectively, but also objectively, as we are what we discover.

Perhaps I was unclear. Gödel felt the answer (to problems of false religions) was applied reason. I agree with him. Gödel also believed in God. I also agree with him about that too as I have already defended extensively.

Finally Gödel wrote an Ontological proof of God. I don't know if I agree with that proof or not because I have not been able to spend the time necessary to really understand it. Understanding Gödel's proof of God is on my bucket list of thing to eventually do. It's not a trivial task given the math involved and the many years that have past since I last formally studied the subject.

I don't see why I should not post interesting theories and proofs of others hold just because I don't fully grasp them myself. Readers of this thread may find them interesting I certainly do.

In regards to the difference between your belief "Man was made from Stardust", and the Biblical report "Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground". You must excuse me but I fail to see much difference.