Matt,
Yes you do, and I will show you why.
As you so helpfully pointed out, twice I asked you the same question, but no response from you!
I asked you:
You tell me, what can the foundation do thats not already obvious? We have no control over Bitcoin, Bitcoin runs itself.
To which you responded:
So what you are telling me now is that you lied in your post and that in fact you can gain power and are not limited by your bylaws except you can't control how Bitcoin is being run?
Which did not answer my question, so Ill rephrase and hope to get an answer.
Tell me, what specific power or control are you worried about that the foundation will try to do over Bitcoin? Answer that, and I will tell you how the foundation will prevent that, and if we have nothing to do it, I promise to make sure those protections go into the bylaws.
Thanks
So you aren't going to point to the section of the bylaws the supposedly highly limits the Bitcoin Foundation as was implied with "We cant gain power, in fact we cannot do anything outside the bylaws." ?
I'm worried the foundation will grab the power to:
- claim to speak in the name of all users of the Bitcoin software
- claim to speak as the authority on Bitcoin software
- claim to be a watchdog over the code so individual members needn't worry
- claim to be the authority deciding which Bitcoin businesses are legitimate
- claim to be the authority that decides which Bitcoin projects are worthy of founding
- claim to be the authority that decides which developer's improvements should/shouldn't be added to the core Bitcoin code
- sell a change of Bitcoin or any "approved" layers on top, or just simply a policy or a mission statement to the corporate membership, shoved down the throats of all of the users through a founders 1 + corporate 2 vote giving them the majority
and I could think of more.. So please how are you going to prevent this from happening some day. I realize you probably aren't doing this today, but what about in a year, or 2 or 3 or 5?
After you are done addressing these, don't forget to explain what you meant by "We cant gain power, in fact we cannot do anything outside the bylaws.". It's extremely important that we understand how did you limit yourself through the bylaws as implied by your post. Preferably quote the bylaws. And if you didn't limit yourself, please explain why you worded your post in a manner leaving an impression you did.
Also, who the hell is Matt?
Matt,
Again, I clearly said the bylaws limit our corporate power which you already quoted. I did not say the bylaws limit the power over its control of Bitcoin.
Please stop trying to twist my words. I wrote "Your bylaws reference is speaking of something totally different, corporate law, that states that the foundation can sell t-shirts but not illegal firearms..nothing to do with promoting Bitcoin"
Now, onto the real issue...
I'm worried the foundation will grab the power to:
- claim to speak in the name of all users of the Bitcoin software
>> We claim to speak in the name of all members of the foundation. Bitcoin is open source, no one owns it.
- claim to speak as the authority on Bitcoin software
>> Bitcoin is open source, no one owns it. Anyone can write their own Bitcoin software. The foundation does not control any of the software.
- claim to be a watchdog over the code so individual members needn't worry
>> The foundation will pay for Quality Control and Assurance of the Bitcoin code from member dues. The InfoSec type companies will be hired to test the quality of the code and look for bugs/holes (Something which the dev teams badly needs and has requested many times) Any findings will be published the an update released. Any of the individual software writers or users are free to not update their clients or software.
- claim to be the authority deciding which Bitcoin businesses are legitimate
>> The foundation will attempt to build a vetting process to prevent scammer companies from exploiting Bitcoin users. It wil not just point a finger at a company and say "This is illegitimate". The foundation will release evidence acquired and present it to its members.
- claim to be the authority that decides which Bitcoin projects are worthy of founding
>> The foundation will fund projects that request to be funded. It is legally allowed to deny/approve anyone as its a member driven organization.
- claim to be the authority that decides which developer's improvements should/shouldn't be added to the core Bitcoin code
>> The foundation has no say in what goes in the code. Recommendations could be presented to the core dev team, and they can do as they see fit.
- sell a change of Bitcoin or any "approved" layers on top, or just simply a policy or a mission statement to the corporate membership, shoved down the throats of all of the users through a founders 1 + corporate 2 vote giving them the majority
>> Most policys and major changes would require a unanimous vote, not a majority.
Let me know if you have other concerns, I'll gladly respond to them.
Some of these concerns are real, and I think need to go intro the bylaws, so thank you for pointing them out....just wish you were a little nicer about it considering you asked to be treated like an adult
-Charlie
But no, you are blinded with ego and can't see three feet in front of you all the dangers that are possible even in this highly restrictive system.
Dude, you gotta stop with the personal insults at people. Have I insulted you? Why cant you have a normal and civilized conversion.
You asked to be treated like an adult, act like one!
Ok maybe you missed it at the very end, but who the hell is Matt? You want me to be nicer? Why not follow your own advice and stop calling people names that aren't theirs? I never called you any names, all I did was ask questions based off of your posts. And telling someone they are blinded by their ego just can't be an insult. No, I'm actually being extremely nice and cordial by my standards. But I'm not going not point out inconsistencies in your words for the sake of being nice.
As for your answers, I'm not happy, as you can imagine because you have just shown me with your answers that you will seek certain power to do certain things and no matter how open or well intentioned the process is going to be, given how you structured the board of directors you cannot promise me anything that would make me believe corruption and abuse isn't possible down the road. Now I have to trust you. And THAT is my main problem. Before all I needed to worry about was the code, now I need to worry about the code AND trusting you, something I did not consent to and had no need for.
And last but not least, let's clear this up please because I really wouldn't want to "twist your words". Explain what exactly did you mean in the below quote, specifically with the red underlined part:
The problem I have with this Foundation is that it asserted itself over this experiment and the community. No one asked you to. No one gave you permission. You just did it. You created a corporation to wield power no one granted you.
THIS! HEAR HEAR!
The problem with both you and shad0wbitz (which ive pointed out many times) is that you assume the foundation is assering itself, you assume we are wielding power which in fact we are not.
Its not a complicated structure to understand and you can create your own foundation to help further Bitcoin.
Foundation has no power or control, and no one owns the foundation its owned by you. Like I said, when elections come the whole board can be replaced and you can be on it
-Charlie
This contradicts your Executive Directors statement in regards to standards. You guys want to make standards for security and the Bitcoin protocol. You are asserting yourself in many ways, especially with your proposed certifications and the cost it takes for businesses to join.
Your foundation will eventually gain power if the industries within form trusts to control the message and force competitors out of its veil of legitimacy.
Matt,
That has nothing to do with power
Again, all you do is assume without facts.
"
Your foundation
will eventually gain power"
It's not my foundation, its YOUR foundation, Ive stated this many times.
We cant gain power, in fact we cannot do anything outside the bylaws. The certifications are for anyone to join and use. If you dont like it, don't join it or start your own foundation.
If you have problems, join the board, and enjoy
Have a great day
-Charlie
