using blockchain.info still can spend an unconfirmed balance in the old version, don't know with the latest blockchain.info version but once the balance confirmed,the bitcoin which has been spent will get confirmed too and it doesn't take too many time sometimes

So you're saying the following:

• Double-spending a TX is easy and can be done by anyone
• It takes the same amount of time for a unconfirmed TX to get confirmed as it takes a check to be cleared.

The time difference is huge. We are talking about proper TX's here.

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Update: I'm not going to waste more time on you. What you're trying to pinpoint is not of relevance.

For me as my observation about the speed of the transaction between the send and receiver it takes 10 minutes before your transaction get confirm this is fastest experience in bitcoin unlike before.. Before it takes 3 minutes or instant.. unlike now..
If we compare paypal in bitcoin for transacting funds paypal is fastest and instant.. unlike bitcoin it takes 10 minutes this is just my experience as of now.. even you are increasing the miners fee..

Sometimes it really took a few hours before you send a Bitcoin. Sometimes the problem is on the block chain, the confirmation of your transaction took too pong.

Yeah PayPal has the constant time for every transaction. For this reason people find it to be faster but with bitcoin upon sending itself it reaches with the statement of unconfirmed transaction. Some even get confirmed in a short some take long time. This doesn't mean the amount is not transacted.

>Although it is generally best not to do so, it is possible to spend unconfirmed bitcoins.
Plz give me an example, because I want to do some serious double-spending via 0-fee tx.

>properly formed bitcoin transaction will typically (more often than half the time) confirm in less than 10 minutes
Only if the hashrate is going up. If the hashrate is constant, the average is exactly 10 minutes, because math.

>10 minutes and rarely (if ever) take more than 120 minutes
Can assure you, it happens. See thread linked above.

Orly? I assumed you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-formed_formula. But you didn't. Could you link me to the definition of "properly formed bitcoin transaction" you're using? Because it seems you're suggesting that "a properly formed bitcoin transaction" is a transaction that goes through, which isn't much of a definition, being both circular and unenlightening

...also getting into some murky shit, since you're telling me that one of the most popular bitcoin wallets is creating ill-formed transactions, transactions which, being ill-formed, should never happen

Imagine going to your ATM, slipping it your card, and, after keying in some numbers, seeing "Lulz, UR monyz GONE, ill-formed transaction xD looool!!" Not only did you not get any money from your ATM, but the money you expected to get is, basically, GONE. You might get it back some day, and then again, you might not.
This really is the currency of the future.

>Sure.  As of the time that I'm posting this, you can see a transaction spending unconfirmed bitcoins here:
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/153263713

What am I looking at? And why is it still unconfirmed, an hour later?

Yep.


Nah.

When I say a "properly formed bitcoin transaction" I generally mean the following:

• Transaction includes a reasonable fee for it's size
• Transaction doesn't spend any unconfirmed outputs
• Sequence numbers of all inputs equal to UINT_MAX
• No competing transactions seen on the network spending any of the same inputs
• Transaction broadcast to multiple nodes

Not sure exactly which wallet you're talking about, but yes there are several "popular" wallets that have transactions which create "bad" transactions, or do a bad job of protecting their users.  Popularity is a very poor measure of quality.


Businesses that provide you with that ATM interface are motivated by competition and desire to profit to provide a quality product.  If some hobbyist created an ATM that did dumb crap like that, would you use it?  No? What about if that ATM was popular, then would you use it? There were unfortunately wallets created early on by hobbyists without a significant motivation to create anything better than they needed for their own personal purposes.  Those wallets became popular before better wallets came along.  Eventually the market will sort out and the best designs will win, but until then popularity is a poor measure of quality.


A transaction that spends unconfirmed bitcoins.  I'm pretty sure I already stated that.


Lack of transaction fee?

So you're saying that the only problem with that requirement is a typo in the word "its" and you would prefer a better word that "reasonable".  Got it.  At least we agree on that point.


Yep, they can, but if you do spend them (or receive a transaction that spent them) then you should expect a significantly increased chance that the transaction WON'T confirm in the next block.  We are talking about my statement that the "properly formed transaction will typically (more often than half the time) confirm in less than 10 minutes and rarely (if ever) take more than 120 minutes", right?


Looks like we agree on that point too.


If she's sending the transaction, she doesn't need to.

If she's receiving the transaction, then she can either use a wallet or service that tells her, use a service that manages the risk for her, or determine for herself if she has enough of a trust relationship with the payer to accept unconfirmed transactions or needs to wait for a confirmation.


See above.


Bummer.  Give it time. Maybe in a few more years.


Techy?  Maybe Techie.

I apologize for not gaining your approval on my word choices ahead of time. Hope you can get over it. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to seek in advance your approval of all words I choose to use in the future.  I'll just continue to use words that I feel get my thoughts across as best I can.  Perhaps I'll occasionally fail, but it's gotten me this far in life, and I doubt it will become a problem for me now.  You've made your own value judgement about the word choice, others will make their own value judgements.  Perhaps some will agree with you, perhaps some won't.  I'm not particularly concerned.


Um? Ok.


Nah.  Not interested.

if you want a fast bitcoin transactions use large transaction fee anyway. especially if you send bitcoin numbers are very large then it was followed a large fee anyway. on the one day I had sent bitcoin with a large amount but the fee that I give very little. guess how long? 3 days I can only confirm the transaction. so do not play play against fee. This is very influential.