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    Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9724796 times)

    • qwizzie
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    October 22, 2020, 06:00:57 PM
    Last edit: October 22, 2020, 07:03:10 PM by qwizzie
    Quote from: afbitcoins on October 22, 2020, 05:48:56 PM

    Bitcoin innovator of proof of work. Peercoin innovator of proof of stake.

    Dash innovator of Masternodes, ChainLocks (protection against 51% attacks), InstantSend, PrivateSend and soon Dash Platform with data-focused Dapps, Blockchain Identity, Blockchain Usernames,
    Decentralized API, Blockchain Data Storage. Those features are also giving Dash value and differentiate Dash from other coins.

    Proof of Work is just one of many factors that influence the value of a coin, it is most certainly not the sole all-driving factor.
    Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now

  • Dahaa
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    October 22, 2020, 06:50:14 PM
    The numbers at 0.0058 speak for themselves. They increase their reward and sit and wait for the coin to fly to the moon. Grin Mega scammers.

  • Dahaa
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    October 22, 2020, 06:52:16 PM
    BCH+BSV Grin
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 22, 2020, 05:38:07 PM
    Quote from: afbitcoins on October 22, 2020, 04:22:06 PM
    The market shows me that proof of stake coins have not held value as well as proof of work. Dash is only 45% proof of work, soon to be lowered even further to only 40% proof of work. This is where most of its store of value comes from and is only 40% effective.  

    ie 9 millions coins that are produced at 100% proof of work competitive mining would be expected to be valued more than 9 million coins produced with 40% proof of work which would be valued more than 9 million pure proof of stake produced coins. After accounting for initial hype cycles and things like that

    With you simply repeating toknormal, i may as well simply repeat myself : https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/421615.msg55397118#msg55397118 (with some updated percentages)

    Dash           : -95,3% price down from ATH      
    Zcash          : -93,0% price down from ATH
    Bitcoin Cash : -93,7% price down from ATH
    Source : messari.io

    That is at least two PoW coins that have '100% of its supply subjected to competitive mining' and are price performance wise not doing demonstratively better then Dash in this bear market. Directly invalidating the assumption that coins with '100% of its supply subjected to competitive mining' is doing better then Dash.

    And no, most of Dash value is not coming from PoW, but from speculation and from usability and perceived future usability. Our recent price pump is a good exampe of that :

    DASH Price Explodes 18% After DeFi Announcement
    https://cryptoticker.io/en/dash-price-explodes-18-after-defi-announcement/

    I am also pretty sure Dash will get another price re-evalution, once Dash Platform hits Dash Mainnet next year and expands its number of use cases. None of that has to do with Proof of Work.

  • afbitcoins
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    October 22, 2020, 09:15:19 PM
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 22, 2020, 06:00:57 PM
    Quote from: afbitcoins on October 22, 2020, 05:48:56 PM

    Bitcoin innovator of proof of work. Peercoin innovator of proof of stake.

    Dash innovator of Masternodes, ChainLocks (protection against 51% attacks), InstantSend, PrivateSend and soon Dash Platform with data-focused Dapps, Blockchain Identity, Blockchain Usernames,
    Decentralized API, Blockchain Data Storage. Those features are also giving Dash value and differentiate Dash from other coins.

    Proof of Work is just one of many factors that influence the value of a coin, it is most certainly not the sole all-driving factor.


    Did you see the impact of those Dash innovations versus for example proof of work coins with much less innovation? Did you see the way the market reacted to the release of chainlocks?

    Don't you question how Dash with all those features struggles even against coins with almost no innovation?

    Anyway I hope you are right qwizzie because my dash bags are heavy and I want a big dash pump to lighten them.

  • afbitcoins
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    October 22, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
    Dash versus bitcoin

    chart

    So heres Dash versus bitcoin on log scale. Two long standing channels still engulfing all the Dash BTC price action. Dash in a bearish channel since 2017 still not close to trying to break up out of it. An even bigger channel has defined DashBTC for most of Dash history. Bottom of which is a very well tested (and should be solid) level, I've marked with green arrows. Last time Dash hit that bottom there was a big ultraradar inspired pump, after which he got out of dash. Lets hope someone steps in to pump dash again.

  • toknormal
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    October 22, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
    Last edit: October 22, 2020, 11:27:50 PM by toknormal

    Quote from: afbitcoins on October 22, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
    So heres Dash versus bitcoin on log scale. Two long standing channels still engulfing all the Dash BTC price action. Dash in a bearish channel since 2017 still not close to trying to break up out of it.

    Note that sharp discontinuity in gradient in January 2018. That's when the dump starts and just doesn't stop. That discontinuity co-incides with when the masternode count got saturated and started to level off. The price can't be sustained unless the nodecount is growing. As soon as the nodecount hits a ceiling, the price crashes and keeps crashing till the mining/MN profitabilities get back to near parity. It's just normal, free market forces at work whittling away that excess margin (in dollar terms).

    You can see that growth is steady and healthy up to a point at the end of 2017. After that it starts a descent and can't even get a breath. It's like something's suppressing it.

    That "something" is the deadweight of masternode margins. They are not being spent on raising the block price the way they are in other coins. We need to get that weight off it's back to allow it to rise again and the way to do it is to set the mining/masternode margins at reasonable parity (IMO).

  • jdmcg
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    October 22, 2020, 11:58:08 PM
    Quote from: afbitcoins on October 22, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
    Dash versus bitcoin

    chart

    So heres Dash versus bitcoin on log scale. Two long standing channels still engulfing all the Dash BTC price action. Dash in a bearish channel since 2017 still not close to trying to break up out of it. An even bigger channel has defined DashBTC for most of Dash history. Bottom of which is a very well tested (and should be solid) level, I've marked with green arrows. Last time Dash hit that bottom there was a big ultraradar inspired pump, after which he got out of dash. Lets hope someone steps in to pump dash again.

    Yup, to me this is a very bullish setup. The channel you point out is running out of room and DASH is about to test major support again. Every time it has in the past it surged in price shortly after. Once DASH breaks out of this channel I believe its bull run can finally start. Probably not much longer now, maybe up to 3 months but could be much earlier.

    Anyways, don't get so wrapped up in toknormal's doctrines. While he makes some valid points of how DASH has added selling pressure compared to POW coins he also overly states it to the point of absurdity. DASH is being tested right now. It's not the new shiny coin like so much of the new competition is and it has somewhat been forgotten. DASH doesn't just compete against POW coins. It has so much more to offer and it will be rediscovered in good time. Dash Platform is yet another huge innovation for the crypto space and the timing for its release couldn't be more perfect where it aligns in the chart.

    Now, it seems to me, LTC, a pure POW coin, is in a similar bearish channel vs BTC (it just doesn't reach as high in 2017 as DASH). Both these coins seem ready to go on a run.

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 12:21:02 AM

    Quote from: jdmcg on October 22, 2020, 11:58:08 PM
    ...toknormal's doctrines. While he makes some valid points of how DASH has added selling pressure compared to POW coins...

    Very kind. Always happy to pick up a scrap of concurrence where available Wink

    (But be advised, while the principle I'm drawing attention to may be overstated at these low prices, it grows in significance in direct proportion to the price. So if we ever get back into even the mid hundreds with this many masternodes, it will become a huge problem. You cannot compare with early 2017 because the nodecount was still growing at that point).

  • Tungi17
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    October 23, 2020, 12:51:37 AM
    On today’s Dash Talk episode Amanda B. Johnson speaks with Albert Castellana, Founder and CEO of StakeHound.This informative interview explores the world of DeFi clearly explaining how users can benefit from Dash staking with stakedDash as well as earning additional DeFi rewards.Question timestamps included in video description.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_jSIJ6g0K8&feature=youtu.be

    Dash Core Group Q3 Quarterly Call - 29.10.2020
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q3-quarterly-call-29-10-2020.50832/

  • iHodler
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    October 23, 2020, 09:38:29 AM
    I saw the StakeHound platform for Dash stacking and it looks pretty good to me in terms of interest.

    What I like:
    • No lock period;
    • No minimum amount.

    What I dislike:
    • You need to deposit your coins to a website.

    From the history..., what will happen if the website gets hacked? What if the site owner/s run away with the coins?
    Am I wrong asking this or you can delegate your Dash without the need to deposit the coins to the website and I misunderstood the staking process?

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 10:13:04 AM
    Last edit: October 23, 2020, 10:29:59 AM by toknormal

    Quote from: qwizzie on October 22, 2020, 10:17:33 AM
    The supply is the result of our emission rate schedule. Since Dash is not messing with the emission rate schedule in any way, there is no inflating of the supply.

    More than half of Dash's supply will be inflated on a purely numerical basis, without recourse to competitive mining. 6 blocks out of every 10.

    Can you imagine how much bitcoin would be devalued if it did that ? Effectively counterfeit from many perspectives, in comparison to a fully mined chain. (At least that's how the "store-of-value" market sees it and it's how it values us currently).

  • qwizzie
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    October 23, 2020, 10:33:40 AM
    Quote from: toknormal on October 23, 2020, 10:13:04 AM

    Quote from: qwizzie on October 22, 2020, 10:17:33 AM
    The supply is the result of our emission rate schedule. Since Dash is not messing with the emission rate schedule in any way, there is no inflating of the supply.

    More than half of Dash's supply will be inflated on a purely numerical basis without recourse to competitive mining,

    Incorrect. But good luck trying to convince people 1+1=3
    Maybe you can start your own little cult club. Not based on facts and reported supply numbers, but based on what you think the market likes and values.
    A cult club based on unsupported opinions and focused on dumping everything on the first pump that comes along.
    Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:33:40 AM
    Incorrect.

    How so ?

  • qwizzie
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    October 23, 2020, 10:42:15 AM
    Last edit: October 23, 2020, 10:53:05 AM by qwizzie
    Quote from: toknormal on October 23, 2020, 10:38:37 AM
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:33:40 AM
    Incorrect.

    How so ?


    Because you have not provided any statistic or factual support for that little theory of yours.
    It is nothing more then a personal opinion, that very few people in this Dash community place any value on.

    Competitive mining does nothing to the emission rate schedule or the supply that gets generated because of that
    emission rate schedule. There is simply no connection there.

    So no, competitive mining does not inflate supply in any way. It is factual incorrect.
    We could give miners 60% of the blockrewards and still end up with the exact same supply.
    Same with masternodes getting 60% of the block rewards, no change in supply.

    Zero change in supply. The only inflation comes from the supply inflation, that comes directly from the emission rate schedule.
    Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 10:52:50 AM

    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:42:15 AM
    Because you have not provided any statistic or factual support for that little theory of yours.
    It is nothing more then a personal opinion, that very few people in this Dash community place any value on.

    LoL ! Are you serious ?

    What is it about the phrase "we don't need all this hashrate" you don't understand ?

    The protocol itself only requires 40% of the chain to be mined. You can switch it around philosophically anyway you like and say (for example) that the entire chain is mined, but then you've got to accept that the cost is borne disproportionally by investors in the primary supply (who finance the mining).

    There is no escape and you're going to have to address that disparity because the market sees it and we have our fingers in our ears.

  • qwizzie
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    October 23, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
    Quote from: toknormal on October 23, 2020, 10:52:50 AM

    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:42:15 AM
    Because you have not provided any statistic or factual support for that little theory of yours.
    It is nothing more then a personal opinion, that very few people in this Dash community place any value on.

    LoL ! Are you serious ?

    What is it about the phrase "we don't need all this hashrate" you don't understand ?

    The protocol itself only requires 40% of the chain to be mined. You can switch it around philosophically anyway you like and say (for example) that the entire chain is mined, but then you've got to accept that the cost is borne disproportionally by investors in the primary supply (who finance the mining).

    There is no escape and you're going to have to address that disparity because the market sees it and we have our fingers in our ears.

    Changing the hashrate does nothing to supply, it certainly does not inflate or deflate supply.The amount of supply generated each day week month does not change when there is lower or higher hashrate.
    With regards to the market : the market punishes most Altcoins at this stage, not just Dash and it does not exclude PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash or Zcash either.

    If the market really values competitive mining over less competitive mining, then it would have valued PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash and Zcash higher. Instead they have the exact same price performance as Dash.

    Dash              -95,4% Price Down from ATH
    Bitcoin Cash    -93,6% Price Down from ATH
    Zcash             -93,2% Price Down from ATH
      
    Source : messari.io
    Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 11:06:14 AM

    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
    With regards to the market : the market punishes most Altcoins at this stage.

    B.S.

    We now have 5000 masternodes with ridiculously uneconomic margins to support. They are eating the capital value of the chain like a starving animal that starts to consume its own flesh to survive.

    Litecoin now has over 100,000 transactions per day. We were at parity with it only a few months ago. It also has plenty of emission schedule to go so your cake-slicing supply schedule excuses do not carry any weight either.

    We're still floundering on 25k transactions. Arguments like "it's ok, pump is coming" and "we have innovation" are slightly pathetic if I may say so against the current background.

  • FireFox2020
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    October 23, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
    Changing the hashrate does nothing to supply, it certainly does not inflate or deflate supply.The amount of supply generated each day week month does not change when there is lower or higher hashrate.
    With regards to the market : the market punishes most Altcoins at this stage, not just Dash and it does not exclude PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash or Zcash either.

    If the market really values competitive mining over less competitive mining, then it would have valued PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash and Zcash higher. Instead they have the exact same price performance as Dash.
      

    You're right. Many altcoins are at the bottom right now. But it won't always be that way. Dash is a very promising and lively project. I believe in the success of this cryptocurrency!

  • qwizzie
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    October 23, 2020, 11:11:57 AM
    Last edit: October 23, 2020, 11:29:21 AM by qwizzie
    Look toknormal, you can bring hashrate, number of transactions, number of masternodes to this supply discussion, but that still does not support your claim that without competitive mining, supply
    will somehow get additionally inflated. It will not.

    There is existing supply, there is max supply and there is our emission rate schedule that determines how much Dash will be generated each day and what the max supply will be.
    The supply inflation comes from our emission rate schedule, not from competitive mining.

    Quote from: FireFox2020 on October 23, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
    Quote from: qwizzie on October 23, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
    Changing the hashrate does nothing to supply, it certainly does not inflate or deflate supply.The amount of supply generated each day week month does not change when there is lower or higher hashrate.
    With regards to the market : the market punishes most Altcoins at this stage, not just Dash and it does not exclude PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash or Zcash either.

    If the market really values competitive mining over less competitive mining, then it would have valued PoW coins like Bitcoin Cash and Zcash higher. Instead they have the exact same price performance as Dash.
      

    You're right. Many altcoins are at the bottom right now. But it won't always be that way. Dash is a very promising and lively project. I believe in the success of this cryptocurrency!

    I believe that too. I am in it for the long term.
    Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now

  • toknormal
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    October 23, 2020, 11:24:55 AM
    Last edit: October 23, 2020, 11:35:26 AM by toknormal

    Unfortunately, "promising and lively" is not an adequate counterbalance for an uneconomic model that has so little buoyancy that it sinks like a deadweight in marketcap when compared to other types of protocol more optimised for store of value.

    It may be enough for existing holders as comfort blanket value, but markets take a more systematic look at capital flows. Maybe it's time we did too.

    How the market sees it:

    **** Other Chains ****

    We apply our hashrate to all of our blocks .
    They therefore come onto the market with a high scarcity value which is monetarily quantifiable.

    **** Our Chain ****

    We don't need all this hashrate.
    We are promising and lively.
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