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    Author Topic: Can you stop calling Bitcoin an investment?  (Read 2730 times)

    • ParveZ219
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    August 16, 2018, 04:50:18 PM
     #401
    Everyone after the rising of price from 2013 to 2017 all are
    Investing in bitcoin just for making profit and nothing else....Even everyone became so greedy that they increased the craze of bitcoins to such an extent not for  it is a currency but as they can earn a little bit.

  • Gila uang
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    August 16, 2018, 04:55:57 PM
     #402
    Quote from: hongthoa498156@gmail.com on August 13, 2018, 02:52:23 AM
    Limited supply and distribution lead to the similarity of gold. It is not difficult to see the similarity of something that has been used as a currency as an asset and as an investment. I wonder what would you call a bitcoin? A currency? I do not think it matches Bitcoin



    I think there are some people who are able to think critically to take advantage of the weaknesses of bitcoin to make a profit. As prices fluctuate
    The real purpose of bitcoin is to become an alternative payment for every transaction used by humans.

  • Ferki
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    August 16, 2018, 05:06:53 PM
     #403
    Quote from: PrissMCclen on August 16, 2018, 03:26:09 PM
    Well only newbies will still call bitcoin investment,  a guru should know that btc is a currency just like our local currency.

    Hi,i´m newbie and i call Bitcoin an investment  Wink . Maybe  it was not created to become an investment at the begining but now thats what it is.Risky but profitable as you can see.Oh,and i can´t buy beer with Bitcoin in my local bar and Bitcoin is for sure not my local currency.Not yet,but i hope someday it will be.Unfortunately regulated  Undecided

  • ir.yance
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    August 16, 2018, 05:11:48 PM
     #404
    I think bitcoin is an investment because investors buy it at cheap prices and keep it for a very long time and then sell it and get a lot of money.
    those who consider bitcoin not as an investment because they don't hold bitcoin for a very long time. most bitcoin holders cannot be patient, their minds are filled with fear of loss.

  • Osayo
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    August 16, 2018, 05:17:07 PM
     #405
    Quote from: LeGaulois on July 27, 2018, 10:47:26 AM
    Can you stop calling Bitcoin an investment?

    This damages the cryptocurrency. Bitcoin was not created to become an investment. Before Bitcoin, there were some digital currencies years back, the goal was always to be able to create a (digital) currency free from central banks and governments.
    Cypherpunks and other anarcho-capitalists are at the origin of this idea, perhaps 20 or 30 years ago. None were intended to make an investment to be rich quickly.
    You won't find in the white paper "investing" mentioned, you won't find any post from Satoshi mentioning it

    Considering Bitcoin as an investment, this is the reason why we have more and more regulations, G20 summits and others craps, KYC, etc...
    The word "Crypto-assets" didn't exist before, why did they create it? Because you even consider it an investment, then why shouldn't they?
    Bitcoin could be a lot more accepted and used by now. Why should a merchant agree to be paid in Bitcoin? He wants money, not a piece of your investment.

    You're not even investing, you are just gambling with money.
    Go to the altcoins board, you will surely find plenty of ICOs where you can say you invested in. I have something for you, ICOs used to raise money are no different than "Crowdfunding". If you want to invest then there are a lot of Crowdfunding websites where you can invest in real startups with fewer risks, (you won't find any project using photos from Pixabay...)

    Why don't we see cryptographers anymore? Guess the reasons
    This is a very interesting post. I believe this is meant to correct the negative motive of people towards Bitcoin, but the truth of the matter is that it is very difficult for anyone to accept bitcoin without also thinking of how he or she can make money through it. I am sure even you know this very well. Nobody in cryptocurrency is in it simply because they want it as medium of exchange, but rather it is to make money. Even the inventors' primary interest is to make money that is why they always allocate a certain percentage to the team. This is a fact.
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  • BTCballa
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    August 16, 2018, 05:26:21 PM
     #406
    We all know perfectly that bitcoin was not created initially in purples to become an investment source but it is what it is, and it turns out that people use it in this way, so I think that we have a right to do that.

  • Valer4ik
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    August 16, 2018, 06:02:54 PM
     #407
    investors in bitcoin-ETF will not have the same rights as holders of crypto currency. They will not be able to vote and participate in the development of the bitcoin ecosystem. This will entail a deep centralization of digital money, which can be used not only by manipulators, but also by governments.

  • LeGaulois (OP)
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    August 16, 2018, 09:37:41 PM
     #408
    Quote from: TheQuin on August 16, 2018, 09:53:44 AM
    Quote from: LeGaulois on August 15, 2018, 06:55:36 PM
    I don't know very well Tether, is it using a cryptography tech or is it just a scriptural money?

    Tether runs on OMNI Layer, the original smart contract system running on the Bitcoin blockchain. That isn't so important as I was just trying to illustrate that although Satoshi described it as a payment system it is actually far more. It's an entire monetary system.


    Quote from: LeGaulois on August 15, 2018, 06:55:36 PM
    Ok, yes perhaps the fixed value wasn't a good argument. So, the supply and demand is what makes people speculating on (or at least it participates), but what if Bitcoin wasn't capped at 21 million, we could have less speculation less volatility and so less "investments in"
    Or if Bitcoin was somehow stable +/-5% people wouldn't jump on the wagon to get a better return than a saving account

    Stability will come with size. Forget all the talk of market cap as that really doesn't mean anything in terms of a currency. Only a small proportion of Bitcoins are actually traded and involved in the price discovery process. Forex markets have much more liquidity so it takes much more money to move USDEUR than it does to move BTCUSD. As an example, if the price of BTC was 10x then it would take 10x as much money to move the price the same amount.

    I think there's something in your argument that it is wrong to think of it as an investment. It is really a question of inflationary money vs. deflationary money. It is clear to me that the fixed supply was intended to mean that it would always gain value over fiat money over a long timespan and thus make it a more attractive type of money to use and store your wealth in.

    If someone thinks of it as an investment then they are going to buy it to hold and then later take profits by selling back to fiat. I prefer just to think of it as a form of money that I would rather have and keep.

    The limited supply is more for a mathematical reason and Bitcoin is highly divisible. When you say Bitcoin is a form of money that you would rather have and to keep too. It's about saving like we do save money with fiat. There is nothing wrong with saving money/bitcoin. You save it in case you needed for a hard time.

    Quote from: Valer4ik on August 16, 2018, 06:02:54 PM
    investors in bitcoin-ETF will not have the same rights as holders of crypto currency. They will not be able to vote and participate in the development of the bitcoin ecosystem. This will entail a deep centralization of digital money, which can be used not only by manipulators, but also by governments.

    Do you have the right to vote somewhere in the Bitcoin ecosystem? No
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  • Ikpirijor7
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    August 16, 2018, 10:17:08 PM
     #409
    Not possible, The real purpose of bitcoin is to be an alternative payment of every transaction used by humans. But there are some people who are able to think critically to take advantage of the weakness of bitcoin to make a big profit

  • stompix
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    August 16, 2018, 10:20:22 PM
    Last edit: August 16, 2018, 10:47:29 PM by stompix
     #410
    Quote from: TheQuin on August 16, 2018, 09:53:44 AM
    Stability will come with size. Forget all the talk of market cap as that really doesn't mean anything in terms of a currency. Only a small proportion of Bitcoins are actually traded and involved in the price discovery process. Forex markets have much more liquidity so it takes much more money to move USDEUR than it does to move BTCUSD. As an example, if the price of BTC was 10x then it would take 10x as much money to move the price the same amount.

    There is only one small problem with this.
    It's going to take x10 more money to move the price, but it's also going to take x10 more money to keep the price stable .....from a dump with the same amount of BTC.

    If at 1$ you could stop a dump with an average wage, at 1 000 000 if loaded decides to unload  (pun!) it's going to take the whole Oil Fund of Norway to keep the balance.


    Quote from: TheQuin on August 15, 2018, 06:59:35 AM
    PS. This is an interesting subject but it is really difficult to discuss with all this signature spam. It is time to make all threads in Bitcoin Discussion self-moderated.

    I'm actually admiring LeGaulois for trying to hold the fort this long....
    At least we can get rid of some copy/pasters here as the subject is beyond their understanding capabilities
    Got two earlier Grin


    Quote from: ZazaG7 on August 16, 2018, 10:44:04 PM
    I can't stop calling bitcoin an investment, because bitcoin is a profitable currency,

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  • ZazaG7
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    August 16, 2018, 10:44:04 PM
     #411
    I can't stop calling bitcoin an investment, because bitcoin is a profitable currency, many people make money from bitcoin, so they call bitcoin an investment. so it's natural then when people call bitcoin an investment

  • chenczane
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    August 16, 2018, 10:52:44 PM
     #412
    Quote from: LeGaulois on July 27, 2018, 10:47:26 AM
    Can you stop calling Bitcoin an investment?

    This damages the cryptocurrency. Bitcoin was not created to become an investment. Before Bitcoin, there were some digital currencies years back, the goal was always to be able to create a (digital) currency free from central banks and governments.
    Cypherpunks and other anarcho-capitalists are at the origin of this idea, perhaps 20 or 30 years ago. None were intended to make an investment to be rich quickly.
    You won't find in the white paper "investing" mentioned, you won't find any post from Satoshi mentioning it

    Considering Bitcoin as an investment, this is the reason why we have more and more regulations, G20 summits and others craps, KYC, etc...
    The word "Crypto-assets" didn't exist before, why did they create it? Because you even consider it an investment, then why shouldn't they?
    Bitcoin could be a lot more accepted and used by now. Why should a merchant agree to be paid in Bitcoin? He wants money, not a piece of your investment.

    You're not even investing, you are just gambling with money.
    Go to the altcoins board, you will surely find plenty of ICOs where you can say you invested in. I have something for you, ICOs used to raise money are no different than "Crowdfunding". If you want to invest then there are a lot of Crowdfunding websites where you can invest in real startups with fewer risks, (you won't find any project using photos from Pixabay...)

    Why don't we see cryptographers anymore? Guess the reasons
    Sometimes, I call bitcoin as my investment because I bought bitcoin and hold it, wait for it to increase again. Some people are saying that bitcoin is their greatest investment.  Like you have said, it is a gamble and gamble need risk. You must be prepared when the first time yuon said silla.

  • BIOX
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    August 16, 2018, 11:16:45 PM
     #413
    It is an interesting question I think. For me BTC is a kind of investment because it is not accepted by almost all states as a payment method so we can't use if fully

  • ClassyDancer
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    August 17, 2018, 02:14:40 AM
     #414
    I think with bitcoin’s inception came a certain hype. Especially when people made millions out of it, society got stuck with it as just an investment and asset. But now that more and more are understanding the technology behind it, I hope we can all shift now to its real purpose, as a virtual currency. But it’s a good start that businesses are accepting bitcoin payments, right?

  • Netnox
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    August 17, 2018, 02:38:29 AM
     #415
    Right now, I can't find anyone who is using Bitcoin as a payment medium. That usage came to an abrupt end in December 2017, when the miners forced us to pay anywhere from $20 to $40 for making a single transaction. Now the fee is low, but not many are interested in making the payments.

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    August 17, 2018, 02:51:30 AM
     #416
    I think the trading part is the investment, because we treat crypto like a stock.
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  • Mazda17
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    August 17, 2018, 02:52:37 AM
     #417
    Quote from: Missterio on July 27, 2018, 11:21:22 AM
    I think everyone here is for profit. how else can this be called except as an investment
    I agree with your thinking that many people who come to bitcoin are only looking for profit, even though I think it is the best investment that might be known and that is a strong and worthy investment because it is the first in rank. in my mind, this is the best ever.

  • pendong101
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    August 17, 2018, 03:02:03 AM
     #418
    Well it's profitable for people by buying and selling when the price is high so it's natural people call it investment cause it's really is right now, there's a lot of thing you can do with bitcoin anyways

  • jademacoy
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    August 17, 2018, 03:29:19 AM
     #419
    Wether you like it or not bitcoin is already known to be an investment because the term profit and earning is there. You could not call bitcoin a mere digital currency that could be use as a medium of exchange though we know that the real purpose of the creation of cryptocurrency is to have a peer to peer transaction without having the third party that will relatively collect higher transaction fees. However, it seems that many of the people here in cryptocurrency are taking advantage on its volatility so the term investment was created as they are earning profit on its volatility.

  • Kez1817
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    August 17, 2018, 03:47:06 AM
     #420
       As long as you gain profit out of bitcoin you can't stop calling it as a kind of investment. It just only become an investment because of being volatile of it's price.
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