2003, you read it right. That's why I said the "BTC concept" (blockchain, PKI, hashing) and not BTC itself, because it was announced/launched 5-6 years later.

It's a forum, I could give you the link to read it yourself, but it's not in English, so...

The exact same guy informed us again in 2008-2009. Nobody believed him.

If you think 2003 seems far-fetched, there are even earlier signs of a potential BTC concept back in 1996.

Maybe multiple people around the world had roughly the same ideas about a decentralized electronic currency, but Satoshi launched it first? Who knows...

Or maybe it was too premature to launch it back in 1996-2003, since always-online broadband (ADSL) wasn't as widespread.

Sketchy dial-up connections (56K modems) just wouldn't cut it.

I hope you don't buy into the woke propaganda, otherwise I'm afraid I might be losing my time.

Women and children have a tendency to cry/complain about their misfortunes. Not a very mature thing to do, but we tend to forgive them.

Women don't like men who constantly complain/nag... don't believe me? Ask them if they'd like a man who behaves like them.

Yeah, there are women's prisons, but most crimes are committed by men.

I suppose you don't want a thorough study about testosterone's effect on aggressiveness, right?

Biological differences exist. Accept them.

Aren't you the smartest person who ever did live.  With superior communications skills, too.  


I did start out with just a couple of exchanges and one wallet - and then continued to expand in various kinds of ways, but I feel far from capable of understanding quite a few aspects of various kinds of wallets - frequently, I don't even understand how to perform various functions that might be available through a wallet - or to realize the significance of various kinds of changes that come about from time to time.  

Sometimes I will say some of the exchanges that I use, but other times I won't because there can be security implications, and the same is true for some of the wallets that I use or that I have tried.

I have said that I have tried the Ledger and the Trezor, and I have said that I had frequently gotten confused by the Ledger, and then there is one wallet that I had been using since several years ago, and then over time, they added several functions including but not limited to:
1) the ability to see (and therefore to be able to send/receive) BTC forked coins (such as BCH and BGold),
2) differentiation between segwit and legacy addresses,
3) the ability to add a passphrase,
4) the ability to do multi-device signatures and
5) then recently when I was signing in, I went into the menu to create a new wallet, and then I saw that they have 4 different wallet types to choose from which includes:
        a)  Legacy: BIP44, P2PKH, Base 58
        b)  Legacy SegWit: BIP49, P2SH-P2WPKH, Base 58
        c)  Taproot: BIP86, P2TR, Bech 32m
        d)  SegWit: BIP84, P2WPKH, Bech 32

My point is that I don't necessarily know the various trade-offs that might exist with the various kinds of wallet (account) types, and if you recall there had been a pretty BIG campaign by some anti-segwit people to suggest that the whole segwit was going to crash, and so there was a need NOT to move to segwit - and some of those folks are in the anti-lightning groups.  Sometimes I will try to follow some of those conversations, including starting in late 2015, when there were already folks starting to talk about the need for block sizes to increase, and I am saying that sometimes I don't really feel that I know what the fuck they were talking about, but somewhere along the line, I realize that so many folks were framing supposed "technical" reasons when they were really engaging in politics in which they were merely just trying to make it easier to change bitcoin... so sometimes, any of us might not understand all of the arguments, but after the passage of time, I became way less receptive to hearing those arguments - and even arguing that there was no real basis to their technical arguments - even though I don't know much about technical matters.


It seems that each of us try to share our perspective and experiences, and I put my foot in my mouth on a fairly regular basis.  Sometimes members "call me out" publicly, and other times they do it by PM.  Surely there is discretion regarding when to back down, and sometimes members will really get into public battles too (and I have as well), and sometimes one of the members will end up having a public melt down of sorts.. and sometimes other members will purposefully come at you because it seems that they might be trying to trap you or to get you to devolve into some kind of a public meltdown... so it can become difficult to battle in regards to some of the topics, and surely other members will sometimes know way more about a topic from a certain angle - so it is not always clear when to give up, or whether the back and forth is even useful.. and like in this thread.. whether we are on topic..

Pretty soon fillippone may lose his tolerance for our going off topic.. and maybe regret that he did not create this as a self-moderated thread... so in that regard, even though lightning network has been live for nearly 6 years, and sometimes I have been following some aspects of the lightning network threads, I am ONLY recently actually using some lightning network wallets (so far mostly BlueWallet.. and then knowing that cash app can be used for sending lightning but not receiving), so maybe there can be feelings about "being behind," but if we look at normies in the real world.. they sometimes don't even know superficially how lighting network relates to bitcoin.. well normies have a lot of misconceptions about a lot of things related to bitcoin, but if we are trying to get them to start to store some value in bitcoin and then also to maybe transact in bitcoin, we might want them to have some ideas about both bitcoin and lighting network, even if they are likely to tend towards custody solutions in the beginning of their exposure to bitcoin.. unless they happen to be in El Salvador or they happen to be a bit on the geeky side.


Even if this thread strives to promote a Lighting network theme from a less technical perspective, it is difficult to avoid deviations into technical aspects or even to talk about bitcoin and the reasons why people get into bitcoin in the first place - which surely there is going to be a variety of use cases in which investing for long term storage is going to overlap with various ways to transact with bitcoin.


I might be losing the point that you are striving to make - because from my perspective, I see that some bitcoiners have more conviction than others, and even if there might be a tendency to become more convicted with bitcoin the longer that we are in bitcoin, people do lose faith in bitcoin, and frequently they have difficulties getting back into bitcoin if they sold too many bitcoin too soon, or maybe they were waiting for a down that did not happen, and then they sometimes will become bitter... and getting hacked is not a good experience too.. even if bitcoin did not cause the hack.. and bitcoin did not get hack, but they end up losing their bitcoin because of the hack.. or think about some of these more recent experiences of striving to get yield.. and some people thought that they were playing safe because they were "only getting 4% or 8% yield," and they did not realize that the service that they were using (whether Celsius, BlockFi, Voyager or one of the other lending services) were getting even more interest (maybe up to 20%) when they lent out the bitcoin of their customers to 3AC.. so people can become bitter about these kinds of losses.. and even withdrawal from bitcoin based on their bad experiences and may not even know why they had lost all or most of their money - because in part they might not have understood the risk that they were taking and they also might not have learned any lessen, except "stay away from bitcoin."


I agree with the idea that building up your bitcoin holdings is quite likely to give more options to anyone who does that in prudent, reasonable and perhaps even somewhat aggressive ways.

I also agree that in the long term the odds for BTC to continue to go up are quite great, so if you continue to error on the side of accumulating bitcoin, you are likely going to do well with that kind of a strategy (even though there are no guarantees).

On the other hand, I don't necessarily believe that it is easy to outsmart the BTC price and it is possible that people can buy too much BTC as it is going down in price and continue to buy while believing that the bottom is in and the price continues to go lower and lower and run out of money and cause their own panic, even though they likely were doing the right thing by continuing to buy BTC on an ongoing basis.  

In other words, it is still possible to be too aggressive... and then not be able to handle some kind of a cash emergency that ends up "unexpectedly" coming.


One thing revolves around how much obligation any of us might have to disclose in terms of engaging in a bitcoin transaction, and I would attempt to protect myself no matter which way the BTC price went, so sometimes I would set limits regarding how much I would transact in terms of just protecting myself in that transaction.. but also NOT wanting to get into some kind of situation that did not seem manageable to me.... so if someone was acting crazy, there might be some needs to limit them more in terms of how much of a transaction that you would do with them... or just telling them that you don't want to transact with them anymore.. even though sometimes it can be difficult to say those kinds of things to people without causing them to become even more crazy.

We cannot necessarily assume that everyone is making money in bitcoin even if they have been into bitcoin for a long time and the BTC price has gone up.  There are people who figure out ways to lose money, even when the BTC price has been going up since its beginning to have a price in 2010... and at the same time, the last 11 months of the BTC price going down can seem like an eternity.. especially for people who injected a lot of money at prices quite a bit above $40k.. and maybe they were already running out of money when the prices got down to $40k.. because they were betting on (or hoping for?) up.


Well it is not guaranteed that patience and persistence will pay off... and that's part of the reason to be able to ride out the worst of periods, but also realizing that some preparation needs to be in place for the even worse case scenarios.. and try to apportion preparations, and even to change some appropriations from time to time, as needed, so for example, if the BTC price keeps moving against you and you run out of money, at some point, you may well have to just HODL.. or DCA.. but if you don't have a cashflow or your cashflow dries up then you are in an even worse situation.. and you must realize that all of the bad things could happen, and you should have a plan for those many bad things even if they are not highly likely to happen (from your perception and assessment)... I am not sure that I have an answer, except that each person needs to attempt to tailor his/her approach to these kinds of preparations as best as s/he can in accordance with his/her own psychological and financial circumstances.


Well sometimes there are needs to back up what you say with examples or facts or logic, and also sometimes there are needs to recognize when some matters are beyond your abilities to understand, but even if you are asking a question in an area that you do not understand, you can still attempt to frame what you think you know and what you think that you do not know, so at least someone might be willing to chime in.. and sometimes no one will chime in, even if you believe that you asked a good question.


Some people have more difficult times than others to either shake their ideas about "investing in shitcoins,"  and/or to figure out bitcoin's investment thesis sufficiently enough in order to at least considerably lessen their involvement in shitcoins (whether time-wise, psychologically and/or financially).


I try not to blame anyone who takes a while to figure it out, and we do not even need to agree.


Having a mentor or various mentors can be a good thing, even though in the end each of us has to make our own decisions regarding whether to invest in bitcoin, how much to invest and how to treat our other investments and cashflow.  And, since this is a thread about lightning network, we also have to consider how much of out time and energies we want to spend in terms of learning about various lightning network related matters, and once we learn about all these things, are we going to try to mentor others or not.. and likely the mentoring process does not end, because even when you spend time trying to teach others, you are likely to find out more areas that you either do not know or that you do not know as well as you had thought that you knew them.

So maybe it is difficult to find like-minded people in the real world, so you might spend some time teaching and learning through this forum, and then trying to figure out how much you might have willing students in the real world or if they do not want to learn from you, then either they are not ready or for some reason they might need someone else to explain or to show matters to them, and sometimes I will spend time teaching some ideas to someone or to some people in the real world, and I might say that they need to study and look into these matters on their own, and sometimes I will get the sense that they are not trying hard enough and they are not spending hardly any time learning on their own like they want to be spoon fed.. and in some sense there is a need to attempt to meet people where they are at, and sometimes I am not going to be the right person to do that, even if I might spend some time "planting the seed" or going through some refresher ideas, and sometimes, I just feel that I am losing my patience.. so from time to time, I have to take a break from talking about bitcoin with certain people.


Being interested in the topic helps a lot.. and like you said, interacting with the subject matter helps a lot too.


Sometimes we don't know what we did not know, until we learn it from another angle.  So there can be a lot of ways that we have misconceptions about bitcoin that later will get cleared up... Hopefully.
 


Just try to find areas that you are interested in, and maybe in the beginning chime in once in a while, but not too much, and then the more that you follow the discussions, then the easier it should become to expand your participation into more various subject matters.  Sometimes there could be a debate about a certain topic, and if you just go out and find a link to an article on the topic, or a meme or some other way of adding to the conversation, then the topic might expand in your direction.

Let's say that Member 1 says A, and Member 2 says a little bit A, but more B.

And, then you find an article that says sometimes A is true but sometimes A and B are true, and then the article explains why that is the case, and then you explain what the article says, and then you say whether you believe the article or if you might believe member 1 or member 2, or you might say that you believe that they all are full of shit, because there is another important angle that all of them are failing to account for..... so sometimes it takes a bit of time and a bit of reading before you might be able to challenge certain subject matters, but then you can also ask questions regarding some parts of the discussion that you believe are also important, and maybe Member 1 and member 2 will call you a newbie idiot, and so it is not always easy to know how conversations will advance, yet you should not be dissuaded if members disagree with you, if you believe that you are submitting valid information or a legitimate perspective... while at the same time trying to learn or admitting you were wrong if it ends up that you were wrong.
 

I think that the building and growth in terms of the seven network effects better outlines what you seem to be suggesting in terms of the growth of bitcoin continuing to grow.. and also the Lindy Effect idea, too..  (like described in this Bitcoin Magazine article) which largely suggest that the longer a thing is around and thriving, the more likely it is going to continue to survive, at least as long as the time period that it has already been around.


Fuck off with your fantasy spin attempt and pure making up of facts that are not in existence.

There is no such "maybe" because what happened is that Satoshi took a lot of ideas that already previously existed and put them into a package  in which no one else had previously put, nor contemporaneously, either.

Bitcoin had a about a year and a half of running before it got any possible monetary traction in terms of people trying to give a price to it.. and prior to mid-2010, the bitcoins that had been mined had largely been treated like testnet coins... even though later they started to get monetary value.. as we all have come to realize.. and it took a bit of time for such traction to build.


It was premature because it had not yet been invented.  Various aspects of bitcoin were invented, but not the putting together of all of the concepts into the package that bitcoin ended up resolving matters that had not previously been resolved, including the incentives that were created in the whole package and the difficulties to screw with it because of the difficulty adjustments.. and surely the whole package put together a package that was an invention and a new thing, even though it consisted of a variety of existing parts and concepts.


 Fair enough about the communication and internet connectivity technology being better in 2008 as compared with 2003... but still does not mean that bitcoin was invented prior to 2008.  You have no evidence of that beyond nearly pure pie in the sky speculation that is nearly completely detached from reality like Santa Claus (I am trying to be seasonal here).

TLDR:  "I am not claiming that I met Satoshi, but I would like to share some vague bullshit in order to make myself appear important."

 


I thought satoshi died in 2010.. Go figure.  You (and others in your ostensibly important circle) had more recent interactions with him.  WOW!!!!!!!

I wished that I had been nicer to you, since you obviously know important people.


Yeah.. but I thought that you interacted with him in 2013, 2017, and 2021?  Are you already "forgetting" your own self-important story?


Oh? He likes to appear in the bull markets just to rub it in, and say I told you so.  That does sound a lot like how satoshi would be in real life.

You must have the right guy, for sure.

Can you let me back in your group now.. or what can I do to make sure that we are buddies in or before 2025?

Anything?

Anything?




Me too? or just n0nce?


Not in bitcoin.  Bitcoin was Beta in January 2009 - but I think that the code had been submitted sometime after the white paper on October 31, 2008.


that's a pretty amorphous idea.


How do you know that he was ahead?  because upon reflection you come to realize it?


Bitcoin doesn't work like that.  We have proof of work.  Of course, we also have early bird gets the worm, but you gotta buy some bitcoin or otherwise invest in bitcoin.. not just have a vision.

Vitalik has a vision of unicorn farts, and I doubt that should amount to a hill of beans, even though he formed a whole shitcoin community out of his lame ass vision.


That's irrelevant.  We are not in 1996 or 2003.. we are right now.. October 24/25 2022.


Other systems have not disappeared.  We have Gresham's law going on in bitcoin, and it will likely take a while to play out. Maybe even another 100 to 200 more years... I don't claim to have any specifics.


We should probably follow you, since you seem to know what is important, right?


Your back to making shit up.. this time you are making a strawman argument, and also imbuing characteristics on the whole thread as if we were united.. even though we may well  be united to determine that you are a dweeb... even though some folks might use another word to describe your demonstrations of wannabe self-importance.


Hopefully, you have figured it out more recently.  Maybe you figured it out in December 2017? Right around the time that you registered on the forum?


Yes.,. you are annoying... and diptwat trolls frequently like to raise the "religious fanatics" claim when they are getting backlash for their being a dick... .. a non-woke dick, right?


Of course, you are a more advanced human, and mature too.  No insecurities nor desires for self-importance, right?


Well good.  At least you're not retarded.


Google translate does not work with Martian, yet.  Nanu nanu.


No one raised that topic, except you...so you could ramble on your own talking points.  Have you heard of lightning network?  It's what we were talking about... or at least trying to.. stay somewhat attached to the topic of this thread..


Elon is that you?  It sounds kind of like you.


Wow!!!!  You have thought of everything.      but have you heard about lighting network?  #asking for a friend (a girl who knows her place... sorry fillippone, I could not resist).

Why would we have a bet over some issue that you made up, brought up and only have tangential relevance to this thread, at best?  I hardly even care about your claims to know a satoshi-like figure - even though you failed/refused to state whether you were going to invite anyone beside nOnce to participate in your next BIG foot viewing.

How does anything that you were talking about relate to this thread?  Yes, we were making some discussions about fairness, but not so much down the path that you seemed pre-disposed to want to take us.

And you seem to get so caught up upon ideas of personalities, while still having had not tried to relate such discussion to lightning network or answering whether you have heard of lightning network.. even though I will grant you that bitcoin is related to this thread.. but not as much as trying to specifically talk about how things that you might be talking about relates to lightning network.

The Troll with a capital "T" is again spreading disinformation that the Bitcoins/UTXOs in Lightning are not actual Bitcoins, and that they are only IOUs issued by "he doesn't know who or what". He refuses to accept the fact that the Bitcoins in the Lightning Network are actually signed transactions that are not yet broadcasted, and not yet included in the blockchain.

there is now the possibility to make lightning payments with a ring👉https://www.bitcoin-ring.com/
the ring needs to be configured with a bolt service. once set-up it generates a unique and encrypted one-time lnurl withdraw-links where the merchant can withdraw the payment.
furthermore, it is shipped/sold eco-friendly with shredded €uro banknotes safely in a beautiful wooden packaging 💪

Has anyone here had channels with zerofeerouting?
In case you missed it:


I also read that he plans to write a piece (or multiple blog posts) about how he ran his node with his experiences and advice, which I'm very much looking forward to.

Problems on the Lightning networks.

Someone just discovered and leveraged a big to cripple the network, or at least the nodes running LND:




Edit:

Hot fix has been released.

Having competing LN implementations seems like a set up? I don't think so; a healthy competition is the best driver of innovation, which is exactly what Lightning is all about.

lightning is not a "bitcoin layer 2"

lightning is a separate network where multiple crypto's can lock value and peg in some Msats to be transfered within LN

you do not need to lock in bitcoin for LN to run. you can lock in other currencies to open a channel
yes your only able to move that channels pegged currency with others who have channels of the same pegged currency..
but you are not limited to owning one channel and you can have different channels of different currencies at the same time


truly observe the code and structure .. dont observe the over promoted social advert

liquid is not a bitcoin layer
binance chain is not a bitcoin layer
Ln is not a bitcoin layer

all three can operate without bitcoin
the units of measure transfered within the networks are not settled confirmed immutable bitcoin value

liquid - lbtc
binance - wbtc
ln - msat(ln-btc)

bitcoin never leaves the bitcoin network
all lock pegging mechanisms need to be looked at as a risk aware event of who/how they can be abused by other users/the systems of how people can lose value

learn lessons from side chains and stable coins that failed their locks and pegs. dont blindly believe when using LN it is bitcoin. because the LN security and audit and accounting model is not the same as bitcoin

some will tell you the peg(commitment) is bitcoin.. its not, if the payment is not on the blockchain it didnt happen in bitcoin
its only bitcoin if its relaying on the bitcoin network to be in nodes mempool or in a block

the payments(onions) are not data structure bitcoin can confirm. the units of payments are not even bitcoin recognised

treat LN the same as binance chain/liquid that allows bridges to bitcoin and other currencies. but dont ever consider ln as a network dependant on bitcoin or a feature only bitcoin can use.. reality is it is its own network that many currencies can use