I guess it has always been bitcoin ever since, but since we are born greedy and would want to diversify our coins as much as possible, then we resort into investing some altcoins hoping that it could also generate decent profits for us. But only few of them survived and the rest have turned into shitcoins. One thing that we only realized now when we suffered consistent losses. However, as long as we prioritize bitcoin and allocate bigger funds on it, I guess we are still not at loss.

It is true that once bitcoin drops in price, no altcoins can increase or go against bitcoin. But you are missing one thing, once the bull market appears and bitcoin increases in price, altcoins will also increase in price. But, many altcoins will thrive and increase in price much more than bitcoin. If bitcoin doubles then many altcoins will increase x10 and that is why people prefer to invest in altcoins today.

Diversification in the crypto market is meaningless if you are talking about minimizing risk because as we also mentioned above, if bitcoin goes down in price then no altcoin can go up in price and even many altcoins will disappear from the market. But when it comes to optimizing profits, as I said, altcoins will give better profits than bitcoin.

You really know my motive for investing that well, or you believe that you have sufficiently summarized my bitcoin investment thesis and how it might have changed over the years?

I believe that I have had somewhat of a consistent bitcoin investment thesis since I got into bitcoin in 2013, yet at the same time, I have learned more and more about bitcoin since getting into bitcoin, so it is difficult to say what I did versus what I would have did or what I would do because in part I have already been in bitcoin, and fairly active in several ways over the last about 9 and 3/4 years... but I am still not sure what this has to do with me.

You challenged that anyone says ETH is a scam is ignorant.. and it seems that you were being quite hyperbolic in that statement.. whether you are correct or not might be another question.

Ever since Ethereum has come into existence it has been a kind of affinity scam in regards to bitcoin, and surely people have made money on it. but the making of money on a scam still does not seem to remove ethereum's scammy history and even including it seemingly ongoing scammy continued existence.

It would be pretty scary to be putting much if any of your value into that crap without merely feeling as if you are gambling rather than investing, even though many people (who I would suggest to be scammers, dumbasses or innocent people caught up in the nonsense.. and perhaps even pre-coiners.. a kind of temporary dumb status) actually do put value into that smoke and mirrors nonsense.


I doubt that I have ever said that, or at least you seem to be devolving into more exaggerations in terms of trying to summarize my position by attacking me rather than really attempting to think through what I might have been saying or what my position might be.

Generally speaking I would prefer to suggest that there is a presumption that anything but bitcoin is a scam.. especially if they have their own token.. or if they are building on some kind of scam that has its own token. Now if they don't have their own token and they are building on bitcoin. then that may well be another story.  I don't claim to be an expert, but I do claim to presume anything trying to act like it is similar to bitcoin or better than bitcoin and has some kind of a token to mostly be a scam, even though surely there could be some utility in terms of some of the shitcoins and even some abilities to transfer value through some of them in kinds of alternative possibilities outside of bitcoin.. so as I mentioned previously, there could be some reasons to hold some of the various shitcoins, ... maybe even up to 10% of various investment assets could be in shitcoins as compared with bitcoin, and sure there could be reasons to go beyond `10%, but I am not going to automatically presume any of that without some kind of a justification, and the burden would be on you to argue some shitcoins to have any kind of value as compared with bitcoin and/or worthy of investing into whether you are talking about the mother asshole of shitcoins (aka ethereum) or some other shticoin or shitcoin variant.


You are trying to paint me as some kind of an extremist... that sounds like bullshit.  I am completely reasonable.. ..and there are likely forum members who are both more informed than me and also more skeptical of shitcoins and the various ways that people get separated from their money (or distracted in their thoughts. or their abilities to better understand bitcoin).


You are within some kind of a reasonable group?  Are you chasing dollar profits?  How do you define profits?    The more you speak, the more lost you sound.


Again, that does not really sound exactly like what I said.. and also I have not really ever claimed that there might be ways to make profits from shitcoins.  Of course there are ways to make profits, and even moreso if you happen to be some kind of an insider who is scamming others or if you have connections with an insider who is scamming others then maybe you will get the information first to be able to pump and dumb your crap.

I would not really characterize those kinds of behaviors  as investing rather than gambling and/or pumping and dumping crap... and of course, you have the right to do whatever you would like.. but it does not sound very accurate to be describing yourself in terms of taking the high road.

The high road likely relates to mostly (if not exclusively) being in bitcoin.. rather than getting distracted too much into shitcoins, and if you happen to get into shitcoins, then hopefully you are not getting more than 10 % into shitcoins without having some kind of a compelling reason to do so that goes beyond mere gambling and/or engaging in various scams, whether you are the scammer yourself or merely following and supporting scammers while proclaiming that they are not scamming..


No one, including yours truly, is saying that you are not able to make profits from being involved in shitty projects.. but it seems quite distracting if you believe that there is some kind of systematic and/or honest way to get involved in the overwhelming majority of that crap, and if you are holding Ethereum up as your supposed virtue coin, then you really sound lost... .. and again, you are sure free to spend your time, your energies and your money however, you like, but coming into various threads and trying to suggest that you are virtuous or that you are doing good work or that anyone claiming ethereum to be a scam is ignorant likely mostly reflects upon your own ignorance and vacuousness rather than some kind of an enlightened position that you seem to be wanting to proclaim that you hold in your support and/or your involvement in shitcoins, including but not limited to ethereum.


If Satoshi did not design Bitcoin to be an investment, then why is it an investment?  You can invest time, energy and/or monetary value into bitcoin, and it seems that bitcoin has various monetary incentives built into it and that is part of the reason that it works so well, even when being attacked.  There are presumptions that are built into bitcoin that it will be attacked, and it is built to be resilient against various kinds of attacks that could take place and that have been taking place, and part of the reasons for bitcoin's resiliences has to do with monetary incentives that are outcome of it's built-in scarcity.

Various shitcoins are just imitators of bitcoin or they are trying to suck off of the bitcoin teat or to hang onto bitcoin's apron string (like bitcoin serving as a security blanket in which the various scams are allowed (or enabled) to exist because bitcoin provides the strongest security of any system (so far) known to man.

So yeah, not only does bitcoin have built in properties to change world financial systems, bitcoin is so disruptive that it ends up purifying and improving all kinds of monetary incentives and your various shitcoin involvement does not really help to bring any kind of clarity to you or anyone else why there is any value in getting involved in that crap.. even if sure you might be able to figure out some short-term angle in which you are able to eek out some short-term value until you get rug pulled.. but hey you are willing to take chances on those kinds of short-term bets, and those are your choices.  No one can rescue you from yourself, except yourself... .you have to figure out if you may well be putting too much time, energy in money into pump and dump crap when you got a pristine asset like bitcoin that is staring you right in the face.

By the way.. don't get me wrong.  I surely do not expect everyone to figure out that bitcoin is the best asset (even though it is), or that shitcoins will cease to exist, or that normies won't get distracted into investing into inferior products, because it is likely that there are going to be millions of new shitcoins in the next 100 years (maybe even in the next 5 years), and there will be many times in which the shitcoins will outperform bitcoin in the short-term.. and there is no real way of NOT seeing that value will continue to flow into bitcoin, but it may well not flow clearly or straightly.. so anyone (and everyone) is free to get distracted into investing into inferior products... and they are also free to invest into bitcoin.. so there is quite a bit of value to anyone who figures out bitcoin to be the place to be spending the overwhelming majority of their time, energies and value.. even if there might be some better short-term places that such time, energies and value could be placed... and it is up to you the extent to which you get distracted into nonsense and how much value you want to put into crap.


Yes.. the better ways of thinking about diversification tends to be across asset category types rather than within the same asset category.. .. and then within the categories, there could be some value if diversifying if the leader is not known, yet within the "crypto asset" category anyone should realize that bitcoin is the only one that really matters, so then if there are desires to diversify, then it should be into other asset categories such as property, equities, commodities (bitcoin could serve as this too), bonds and/or cash/cash equivalents.


Part of the value of the forum is that we do not need to agree, and you are free to make your various arguments and/or counter-arguments (if you have any) and also you should be making up your own mind, as well, regarding whether and how to invest into bitcoin or any other place (including into shitcoins) that you choose to spend your time, energies and value.


I doubt that any turned into shitcoins.  An overwhelming majority (if not all of them?) were already shitcoins from the beginning, but you were happy with them as long as their price was going up.


In terms of investing,  if you do not recognize bitcoin as the leader of the sector, then you likely do not understand bitcoin or the sector.

Now, if you are fucking around with pump and dump and trading, then that is a different set of skills (and or scams) and you can surely profit more in shitcoins, trading and scams than a pure bitcoin approach as long as you play your skills properly and/or you have decent and actionable information that ends up working out for you in those shorter term kinds of plays.


That comment makes no sense.  Bitcoin has not gone away.. so your elusion that some kind of a shitcoin is independent of bitcoin, then you better actually describe which one (examples) you are talking about.


You really are pumping the practicing of a shitcoin strategy. and diversification generally is across asset classes not within the same asset category..   Yeah you can diversify how you gamble too.. and hopefully people are not gambling when they choose their bitcoin allocation.. how they accumulate bitcoin, what their BTC accumulation targets might be and then how they might attempt to maintain their BTC stash once they get it up to their target level.

This rule will likely be broken in the coming bull market. Bitcoin dominance is increasing and many altcoins are failing... this means investors are realizing that most of these altcoins are shitcoins. If this trend continues, the hyped altcoin season may never come even when Bitcoin will be soaring. Ofcourse there will be few of the altcoins that will attempt to following Bitcoin but the number is steadily reducing. FTX is out, Luna is out.... these were solid projects yet failed. Who knows the next!

I know a lot of smart guys including the founders of most of these shitcoins are already converting their bag to Bitcoin as that is the only way to have peace. Anyone hoping to go to the moon with a bag of over-hyped altcoin might actually meet his Waterloo

Looking for another source of profit is not being greedy, IMO.  It is just taking the possible opportunity that we can make a profit while waiting for our other investment to mature.  It is more likely using our time to maximize profit.  It is not bad if we have extra funds and have already invested in Bitcoin to look for another means of profit.  The international law does not forbid anyone to diversify and look for another source of profit, as long as we do our own research and there is a possibility to mitigate risk to its minimum, then it isn't bad to invest in other cryptocurrencies.

Investment in another cryptocurrency is not need for that cryptocurrency to survive the market, since the essence of investment is making profit, we can always cash out whenever we see profit and get out of that cryptocurrency.

As one of the thread here stated: Never marry cryptocurrency.  We must get out if the profit is realized.  Sticking for too long when the target is realized just to make our profit bigger is what I call being greedy.

Bitcoin never offers such a thing but altcoins do especially new projects. And you are the one for those fake believers and those who think always about money and rewards.

That is the reason why we should not just look upon their promises and big rewards but we must look is the use case of the project. Of course, being developers will attract investors in order to make a profit, and one of the most effective strategies is to promise them something attractive...Those greedy individuals and lack of market experience will usually fall into the wrong investment.

Use case? So can you tell me if there are any cryptocurrency projects that have been put into practical use yet? Or is it all just empty theories or empty promises that they often say? In my opinion, investing in altcoins is speculation. If you have made profits, you should take profits and ignore them immediately. There are no projects with practical applications or any technologies that bring benefits to society. So far, only bitcoin can be used as a means of payment and store of value, the rest are just rubbish for speculation and gambling. If you want to invest in technology, it's best to learn about real growing technology companies out there, don't believe what crypto projects say.

Even though I think that 20% is too much to allow to be invested into shitcoins (10% at most into shitcoins.. but hey we can agree to disagree), it is at least some kind of a recognition that an overwhelming majority should be in bitcoin.. ...

Over the years, I have surely seen so many shitcoiners who have no bitcoin or they might have only a 10% to 20% allocation to bitcoin.. which seems completely lacking in knowledge in regards to what bitcoin is....

By the way, don't get me wrong, it is helpful for anyone to think through what are there various allocations and to consider why they allocating the amounts that they are.. including considering their timeline for various investments, so there surely could be some reasonable justifications that would allow people to conclude to take more risks .. which does end up in decisions to ONLY have smaller amounts of the crypto-investments allocated to bitcoin.. but then of course, we have our broader investment portfolio too..

At the end of 2014, after I had already been in bitcoin for a year, I had considered that the amount that I invested in bitcoin would be 10% of my overall investment portfolio, but after March 2020, I started to recommend 1-25% to be allocated to bitcoin, and of course, my own investment in bitcoin ended up being around 13.5% in late 2015, but that grew to nearly 90% as compared with my other investments in 2017 and then shrunk back to 45%-ish and then is currently around 70%.. so I am not even necessarily suggesting the necessity for any reallocations of a winning asset.. so when we consider allocations within our overall investment portfolio versus allocations within crypto (bitcoin versus shitcoins), those are two separate questions, but they still may well have real world ramifications, including that there may be a large number of folks who do not hardly have any investments besides "crypto" which is potentially problematic, but also screwing up their own concepts of how diversification should be considered and put into practice in regards to their own financial/psychological circumstances and/or their investment(gambling) goals.

Those who have experienced huge losses from those altcoins or shitcoins, surely they will never invest in them again to avoid another losses. But for those who are still new in the market, I still think they will still be deceive with those too good to be true altcoins. They’re actually cheap compared to bitcoin so if you invest because of greed, you will chose to invest in them and expect maximum profits.