i have coins from 1-11years ago
i dont starve,.. instead i travel, i enjoy, i spend, i entertain,

i dont need to spend huge amounts of coin, so why sell whole hoard early
i have many stashes over time i keep separate and just use/spend/play with small amounts of a small stash for my lifestyle

im comfy.. i dont struggle, worry or stress over finances

i think it depends on the age group

if one is a bit on the older side, they might see bitcoin as a retirement plan these people mostly lived their life working and the money they earned from that were used to pay living expenses and maybe half of it went to bitcoin they now see bitcoin as the money they’re gonna use to live life after they stopped working however there are a wide range of investors even young adults are starting to invest early maybe they haven’t started working yet but investing in bitcoin is making them hope that they would not have to or maybe they would use the profit to pay for their education

If there have been anyone who has kept holding his/her Bitcoin for quite this long period now without selling, I'm sure they should be on really good profit of their bitcoin investment. Because for example, if someone had invested in Bitcoin by this time last 3years (i.e December 2020) when the value of Bitcoin was still around $28k, while Bitcoin is currently $43k per BTC, he/she should have made $15k in profit.

Likewise with someone might have invested in it 5 years ago (i.e December 2018) when BTC was still around $4k, and now Bitcoin is currently $43k per BTC, he/she would have made $39k In profit.

Same as anybody who might have invested in it 10 years ago (i.e December 2013) when it's price was still $700 per BTC, by now he/she would have made a whopping $42,300 in profit for just mere buying BTC at this different time frames.

It is not feasible to want to change the thoughts of others, it is useless, but if you can change your actions, hence, generalizing the idea of what others do with their belongings (e.g. bitcoin), you only have to have a circumstantial reference; e.g.  there are people who love art and spend millions on a painting, some say "I will never sell it", perhaps as long as I live, but someone actually will, and that is the point, the individual behind their bitcoin does with your bitcoin.

Then, that attitude will have its effect in the individual to his finances, whether in the short, medium or long term, but fortunately as we do not "wait in line" to know what decision this individual makes (in the case of owning bitcoin), we can make our decisions.

Well, this is the case with bitcoin, the decisions depend on yourself, and it is not necessary to wait for anyone, it is not that you have to wait years as could happen with the painting mentioned in the previous example, to sell by... due to economic crisis, death, etc. consequently it finally It is for sale and you can access it

Finally, the individual decisions of those holders do not matter, their decisions will not affect you unless, as sometimes happens, important movements are made by certain holders, but it does not matter in your context, since you want to discover why someone having 10 BTC,  they live like a salaryman.

Seriously, that doesn't matter, the rest doesn't interest me, not to mention that with your personal financial life you can do whatever you want. What really involves us is the sale, the purchase, the hodl, what happens financially afterward with each of those actions is irrelevant.

Of course there are people like that. I'm one. Most of the bitcoin I currently have was from when I loaded up at the bottom of the market in early 2019. So nearly all of the bitcoin I currently have was bought at about $3500/btc. Don't have my 2013/2014 bitcoin anymore, but still have a little bit of my 2017/2018 bitcoin. I only sold a few of my 2019 bitcoin, I think 3 or 4 btc, in 2021 to diversify into altcoins which well didn't work out lol, but most of the 2019 BTC I still have.

I did sell some bitcoin twice this year to pay for a huge unexpected expense this summer and to pay for a vacation I'm going on in two days (woohoo!) because my bank account was only at ~$5000 but I needed a tropical island winter vacation haha. But those two bitcoin sales this year were taken from the bitcoin I bought earlier this year, not from the bitcoin I've been holding for years.

And I live frugally. Some months I spend under $1000. In fact Sept, Oct, and Nov this year were all easily under $1000 spending if you don't count last month me buying the tickets and stuff for my upcoming vacation. I specifically chose to live a frugal but full-time traveling life for a while (I've always been frugal though) after I retired in my 30's in 2019 off of my Bitcoin so that I could allow my Bitcoin to grow immensely in value over time cuz well that was kinda needed since I was retiring so my bitcoin has gotta last me the rest of my life.

I'm sure there are loads of people who have a lot of bitcoin, which may or may not have been considering a lot when they bought it, that they've been holding for years and have barely touched it. We all know bitcoin is going into 6 digits and eventually, perhaps in like 15-20 years, 7 digits. So unless you need the money or have a specific purpose for it (like say buying a house or selling during the bull market to buy back on the crash or whatever) it'd be pretty silly to sell bitcoin when it's only in the 5 digits.

Yes this is the examples I mean.  So imagine someone who bought a few btc like in the 3 examples you gave.  So it would be 15k per coin profit or 39k per coin profit or 42k per coin profit.  But let say they owned like 10 btc so you multiply it per coin.  So this person could have like 300k plus profit in btc or more.  However, let say this person didn't even cash out any of this 300k profit or maybe like 1k so not even 1% profit because they want to have the btc grow.  However... this same person have 5k in the bank total, low paying job and that job barely pays his living expenses such as rent and food and everything and live in a cheap apartment.  Are there people that are like this with the living conditions and the small amount of money in the bank account or not?

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Okay so you are one of those long term btc holders from way back in the day.  Okay so you didn't spend 1/3rd of your cryptocurrency profits but maybe 5%?  I'm confused when you say you only spent 1% of your profits and that is more than enough for you to spend on everything.  So that mean you own a lot of btc since you are older btc buyer and holder but you cashed out at least 5% of your current btc profit from your initial investment right?


The thing is do you have a high paying job though?  Do you have a lot of income coming in that is not your job?  So if you had no btc, you have no problem paying your bills and everything and can still save?  You invest in stocks?  But how did you got the money to buy the stocks?  Was it from selling a tiny portion of your btc or was it from your job?  So profits spend on your tiny btc sell is entirely on vacations and things like that?  You say you use to daytrade a lot... you mean stocks?  Or you mean crypto or both? 


Why you say cashing out some btc and putting it in the bank to earn interest is bad?  I get what you mean with well btc went up almost 19% in one month but that is rare.  Well if you cash out btc, let say someone cashed out say $13,000 worth of btc.  Let say after taxes, it's worth $10,000.  Well put that in the bank and you earn 5% or $500.  That isn't bad.  Of course you have to pay tax on that $500.  But say you cashout $130,000 worth of btc and say have $100,000 after taxes.  You would earn $5,000 a year in interest which is decent.  But if someone had say over $1 million dollars worth of crypto and say after taxes they get say $700,000.  Well if they put that in the bank and earn 5%, that's $35,000.  That same person's income could be easily less than that and with that, well they can move to a better apartment or buy a house.  The issue is if they cashout everything, well they have no btc left.  So you say nobody should cashout all their btc unless they have to right? 



So it would make sense for people who are long term btc holders and haven't cashed out any real profit to keep holding and live like a caveman that has 5k in their bank account and a low paying job that pays just enough for their apartment and living expenses and thus they are in their cheap apartment etc?  Or you say for people like that, they should definitely cash out a little bit so they could at least have some extra spending money or be able to move to a better apartment where they pay say $500 or $1000 more in rent to enjoy that for a year or two with the anticipation that bitcoin will go higher as time goes up?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Okay so you are one of these people.  So you are a long term btc holder but not very long.  To me 5 years or more would be a long term holder.  Okay so you did sell btc to sell for a huge unexpected expense and for a vacation.  So is that a huge portion of the btc you have or not?  I mean I got to assume these two things is at least 10% of your life time btc profits total then?  Certainly 5% at least right?  So in other words, you wouldn't really fit into the category I am talking about because you spent more than $1,000 total profit from your btc right?  Okay so you say these two btc sales were taken from the btc you bought earlier this year and not from the ones from years ago.  Okay so those older btc you haven't spend much profit on it so you fit this criteria.


You don't believe in cashing out a portion of your btc into cash and then putting a portion into the bank and earning 5% interest?  Do you also feel like the other poster that is stupid?  I'm curious but are you from the US or not?


The thing is during this time entire, do you have a high paying job though?  Or you have medium income or low income playing job?  You sound like you have at least a medium income right where if you had no btc at all, you have no issues paying your living expenses without any issue?  By that, I mean paying your rent and food etc and not talking about vacations.  Thus you don't have like only 5k usd in the bank right and a cheap apartment and have to live cheaply?  Because if not, your situation is different than the situation I'm talking about.  I'm talking about like someone having 5k in the bank and a low paying job where it barely covers their rent and food and living expenses.  But this person could have 5 btc or 10 btc or even more.



Yes there are lot of people that have a lot of btc.  However, I can't imagine someone who has lot of btc and still work a low paying job and only have 5k in the bank and live in cheap apartment and does everything cheap like a caveman right?  Like very few if any at all?  I mean I can imagine one with 1 btc doing that or 2 btc maybe... but anyone with 5 btc or more certainly isn't doing something like that right?



The thing is the lot of people who have a lot of btc but also have a lot of money in the bank and lot of money in stocks and real estate, well they could have a ton of btc and never cashed out anything and it wouldn't affect these people because they are already rich without btc.  Like they are living in a nice apartment or house already and living pretty well.  So these people could dip into their bank account or sell some of their stocks and that is more than enough and don't even need to sell any btc.  I mean people who like a caveman with 5k and a job that barely pays their living expenses but just keeping their btc and not selling any.  That type of person is rare right? 

you are comparing bitcoin rate to bank interest......
do you even do math

2011-2013 (high to high) $30-$1200 =4000% 2 years =2000% a year
2013-2017 (high to high) $1.2k-$20k =1600% 4 years = 400% a year
2017-2021 (high to high) $20k-$70k =350% 48month = 87% a year

and you want to compare it to bank interest of 5% PER YEAR

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i have a lump of cash, but i dont think much for the bank interest.. yea its free money but when bitcoin dips to a nice price nearer to value, i prefer to put money in bitcoin on the low and take out on the rise (even though i have coin hoarded. i still like to take opportunities when the price is drop is right)
i have spare play money amounts of coins i enjoy selling on a high
i have spare play money amounts of fiat i enjoy buying on a low

i have hoards of coin i dont touch for longer periods
i have fiat holdings i dont touch for longer periods

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as for advice for people on low incomes wanting to invest
if you are single (no spouse, no kids) so no dependants relying on your income. i would still not advice becoming a caveman living in squalor, just to invest everything..  but you would obviously have less dependants so have more excess/disposable income to invest without negatively affecting your life
yes be frugal, by replacing some luxury brands with cheaper brands. but dont suffer, be more conscious of your spending. EG dont buy brand new cars to impress people. just buy a car that can get you from a-b.
ask yourself will you really enjoy fast food delivery that just turns into a bowel movement tomorrow. or can you make something at home better and cheaper

and yes keep enough bank balance to cover any emergency such as any home appliances that stop functioning or covering bills for a few months if suddenly unemployed, but dont cash out investments or save up enough cash just to hope you can get nice bank interest..

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if they have been accumulating for many years. i see no sense in the binary(2 option) mindset of always hoard or always cash out.. personally i play the middle, of hoarding majority and cash out some to cover enjoyable life..

i do see many people that do the extremes of the 2 options.
some cash it all out and waste it on lavish lifestyle.. and their money is gone
some hoard and caveman live never cashing out even at a ATH

but smart people dont do the extremes

however those that do hoard for plans of retirement when they get old. are no different then those who invest in pension plans.. but you shoud not suffer and live like a caveman while waiting to get old

id say to that person.. stick to economic logic..
buy low sell high

we are at mid point of 4 year ATH cycle. its a little too early to cash out even $1k just to then sit in a bank account earning 5%
best thing is to only cash out if you are in profit. and only if you have true emergency need if it is not a ATH cycle year

when a ATH happens. then evaluate how much you want to cash out to live on
and then when the price corrects decide how much to stick back in for the next cycle

sometimes selling all coin just to buy back in x months is not worth the effort in selling all per cycle. because selling all ends up triggering a tax event. so best do math and calculate the pro-con of cashing it all out or just a percentage

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as for the apartment question
each person is different as are their apartment options

make a judgement. is it the size of the apartment feeling like a prison
if so ask 2 questions

is it the size of the apartment?
or
lack of things to do outside near(walking distance of) apartment that is the problem?(dont go out as there is nothing to do)

if you searched for what you deem as a better apartment/location with more local activities. look at the cost difference between the rents/mortgages. and ask 2 questions
is paying the extra for better apartment going to improve life.
or
can that "difference between" amount pay for more regular outdoor activities to improve your life

is it really the apartment or the lack of vacations the real problem.
can the "difference between" allow you to work a few less hours while still sustaining cost of living, to allow you more rest/recreation time