Well these people are people who I'm talking about.  I mean at least holding for 5 years so that would clearly be even long than that.  However, are there people that hasn't cashed out any real profit but lives like a caveman so to speak and work a low paying job which barely pays the bills and live in a crappy apartment.  Such that if they spent say 10% of their profits from the btc from years ago, they could live in a nice apartment for a year or so.  But instead that person continues to live like a caveman.  Are there many people like that?

So you haven't cashed out any btc profit at all?  Not even say $100 worth?  Surely you cashed out a very tiny bit of profit right like even that?  When I'm talking about real profit... I mean like 5 figures in profit. 


The thing is do you have a high paying or average paying or low paying job?  Can you pay for your living expenses without an issue on what you earn or is that a problem?  Do you live in a nice or average or cheap apartment? 


You said you haven't cashed out any btc for many years already so you would be considered a long term btc holder.  However, you have enough money in the bank and whatever you do as your job to cover your expenses right which is why you haven't sold the amount of btc you got from a while back?  Do you still buy some btc now and sell it for trading?  But the majority of it from years ago, you don't cash those out?  I got to assume you aren't living like a caveman now right?  By caveman I mean like living in a cheap apartment and low paying job and barely pay your living expenses and you not having much money in the bank.  I assume that isn't you right?  The thing is I want to know if there are people like that... yet they have a good amount of btc where if they sell a good portion of it, they could rent a nice apartment for a year or so etc. 

I have many friends who buy Bitcoins at regular intervals, let’s assume every week. They doing this for many years as I remember. They only cash out the Bitcoins when there is emergency of money, otherwise they keep on buy these valuable coins. They really making good profits to be honest. They are cashing out also when necessary and still they have good amount of coins in their wallet. This all happened due to the price rise from 2018, till date. So definitely if you are planning to invest for long term, you will surely get profits.

ok lets really thrash this OP's scenario out in depth

so he has this certain person in mind:
a US person on min wage ($15/h)  - *40*52=$31.2k/year pretax - $26k after tax
so $2.166 a month after tax take home
$5k in bank (2.5months emergency fund)
~11btc hoarded(473k todays price of ~43k/btc)
bought at roughly $2k/btc ~ 5-6 years ago
ok so the price did not go below $2k post 2017-8 ATH so i will presume he bought mid 2017 at $2k
his risk tolerance is 1/3rd


ok. now im gonna imagine i was this person and play out how i would have thought things out over the years

i would not touch the $5k in bank to better my life. id keep that as liquid easy access money for emergency
i would set targets for my coin.. never to sell all 11btc(ops scenario amount)
but knowing last couple ATH did:
2011-2012: $0.30-$30-$6       100x up  5xdown
2013-2014: $30-$1.2k-$240    40x up 5x down
id anticipate a max 16x up in 2017 (last cycle max was 2.5x lower of previous multiplier)

due to ATH anticipation (halving+1year pattern=2017 imminent) of that 11btc id split that 3 ways.
1btc sell at 4x max ($2k/btc becomes 8k)
3btc sell at 8x max ($2k/btc becomes 18k)
7btc sell at 16x max ($2k/btc becomes 32k)- prefer not to sell but would if reaching max multiplier
(happy to sell 4btc of 11btc is ~ the 1/3rd risk tolerance of OP)

so winter 2017
btc does 10x max to 20k
meaning i sold 1btc at $8k and 3btc at $18each giving me $62k

the other allotment didnt hit. so i set them aside 7btc aside
now expecting the correction down to be 5x. id decide how i would keep some as fiat and put some back in
expecting $20k/btc ATH to get back down to $4k/btc
id want to put enough fiat back in to recover my 4btc atleast

meaning of the $62k in pocket ($15.5k average per btc) i would not buy at $15k as thats just break even, so instead
0.5 at $10k/btc ($5k cost)
1btc at $8k/btc ($8k cost)
2.5btc at $4k/btc($10k cost)

they all hit in 2018 meaning im back to 11btc and have spent $23k of my $62k to get back to 11btc
leaving me with $39k money to decide what to do with, so

this is where different people would make different decisions
(accumulate more coin or better their lifestyle)

i personally when seeing the price go down to $3.3k a couple times in a few months (below the predicted 5x of ATH correction)
would have bought more coin
i would have used $10k of $39k money to get an extra 3btc at $3.3k each
meaning $29k money for lifestyle and now 14btc

$29k is more then doubling OP's work labour income for one year.. so a nice 2 year of lifestyle increase to 1.5x. spending $14.5k in 2019 and $14.5k in 2020 ontop of OP salary
(based on OP's lifestyle scenario details)

its nearing the end of 2018 now i feel the market has corrected to bottom.
i would plan how to play the market with the 14btc ready for the next 3 years until next ATH

[ill leave scenario there at this point]

The question is, why would i be holding an investment for 4 to 5 years and have not cashed any huge profit. Its not possible. Any bitcoin investor from 2020 till date who have at least one bitcoin in his/her portfolio by now the person can boast of about 5 to 7 thousand dollars in profit. In fact only this year would have given the person that kind of profit.

The only way someone may claim they have not had any huge profit after 5 years of investment in bitcoin is because they are not consistent and some point in time may have switched to a different investment or diversify his/her portfolio with other altcoins that have made them to lose money. So by this they ae struggling to recover from loss and at the same time hoping to get some little profit.

It can be assumed that buying on the highs will make the profit less, but if you use DCA to buy, then in the long term it is difficult to make losses when investing in Bitcoin.

This is an almost ideal investment for patient investors, all you need to do is be consistent and never sell at a loss. Each time, a new bull run allowed everyone who was patient enough to make a profit, no matter what level they bought at the previous cycle. Now it looks like we are entering a new bull market as over 80% of Bitcoin holders are in profit, the most important thing now is not to sell too early.

What you described in the beginning would be the example I want to use.  So say that person makes minimum wage and earns that and after taxes, that person saves pretty much nothing each month after living expenses.  And remember this person is living in a cheap apartment and doesn't very cheaply.  Also this person would own no stocks or property or anything at all.  Heck, he doesn't even have a car most likely either.  The only difference is the things and numbers you mention below that, you are saying this person did sell some btc during between the timeframe they bought btc till now right?  Let say in your example that person bought 11 btc back over 5 years ago or so and use the example of 11btc.  Let say this person bought 11 btc total but this was even before the price was 2k.  Let say it was like 500 dollars so many years more than that. So this person spent like 5500 dollars years ago on the 11 btc.  Let say around that time, he could have 25k in savings as well so spend like 1/4 of his living savings on it.  I'm saying imagine this same person still has 11 btc now but they only have 5k in the bank... and just like back then... they are working the same low income minimum wage job and just like that back, it's just enough to cover their living expenses.  But some months they have to go into their savings.  So back then they had 25k in the bank and now only 5k.  Of course lot of this will be due to inflation.



In you example and numbers you are assuming this person has bought and sold some of their original 11 btc right?  However, let say this person still hasn't sold any.  Or if they did, it might be a ridiculous small amount not worth mentioning.  Like 1k usd worth.  And now that 11 btc is worth over 400k in usd.  I want to know do you think there are people that are like this in this extreme situation where they spend either a decent amount of their money years ago buying btc and now it's worth this much and thus their btc could be worth 400k plus now but they only have 5k in the bank and still live cheaply and have the same low paying job as back then?  I got to assume there might be a few people like this but extremely rare right?  And if so, this person would be stupid because well not only they have 400k in btc or more... they literally have like 95% or more of their net worth in btc?  Well technically it's not 400k in btc or more because after taxes, let say it's worth 270k... though it's probably worth more like 300k or more since they been holding long term right?



Now what about the same person with the low paying job and cheap apartment and being cheap.  Let say this guy has 20k in the bank.  But back then when they bought btc, let say 11 btc as in your example.  Now let's assume this person bought btc when it was 300 dollars only on each btc on average back years ago.  So this person spent about 3300 dollars on the 11 btc back then.  Now let say with this person... this person had like 60k.  So 3300 of the 60k they had is a bit more than 5 percent of their net worth so they aren't as risky as the guy above who spent 5500 on btc when they only had 25k in the bank so that 1st person spent over 20% of their net worth in btc.  Now this 2nd person like the 1st person has only 5k in the bank right now along with the low paying job which barely covers their living expenses and cheap apartment.  And like the person above, their btc could be worth 400k plus and after taxes, they would have 270k or 300k like the person above.  The thing is their net worth in btc compared to the money in their bank woudl be like 98% or so?  Imagine someonw with 300k worth of btc after taxes if they sell and have 5k in the bank and that's all.  How rare would this person be?  Very rare right but surely some like that exist?  But almost anyone in this situation would definitely have sold some btc to get some profits right whether it's more  money in the bank or to enjoy life or at least get a better apartment?  Let say they only have their low income job and nothing else such that they can't do anything else. 



Would this person like the above person be stupid in the sense that not only did they not cash any real profit from holding btc for all these years?  And I mean real profit as in cashing out at least 5 figures.  You could say either of these 2 people cashed out 1000 dollar in profit but that is nothing at all if their net profit is 400k plus right?  But not only that... they would have 98% of their net worth in btc and only 2% in the bank.  Now what would you say about these 2 people?  Also assume they didn't buy or sell any btc between all these years like the example you provided.  And let say both of these people have a set target where I will continue to do my low income job and live cheaply and in the same apartment and be a hoarder with the btc.  Like they each might have a plan where I would cashout 1 btc once it hits 100k and that is all for now.  Then only when it's higher like 150k or 200k where if they sell half of the btc or more than that, I could then retire and live off the interest.  Would you say these people would be makinig mistakes here?



Also are you from the US or not?  The thing is let say someone could cashout all their btc and let say they have 2 million dollars.  I mean you can easily live off that correct and not have to work for most people as long as they are frugal right?  I mean let say 1 million dollars for a house that is 2 families.  You have 1 million left.  You have to pay property taxes and all that when you own a house.  But let say you rent a part of your house to someone.  That rent you could collect would easily pay any property taxes and utilities and electricty and everything right for your entire house and you still have money left over?  Now with that leftover money, you still have 1 million dollars.  Let say you put $700,000 in a CD earning 5 percent.  Now you are earning $35,000 passively a year.  You still have $300,000 in the bank.  That $35,000 a year would be more than the low income job you have.  So you can possibly continue working if it if you want... but you at least moved from an apartment to a nice house right?  But say this person doesn't want to work their same low income job anymore... well $35,000 a year from CD interest and house already paid off and rent coming in which covers the house property taxes and everything with money left... wouldn't this person easily be able to retire on this?  Or is my numbers wrong?  Of course this person can't splurge and buy multiple cars and go on lavish vacations but this person surely can retire and live off their interest and live in their new house correct?



I got to assume your opinion on this would be that person is making a big mistake selling all their btc right?  But that example surely sounds better than someone who continues to work their low paying job and same cheap apartment but could have 2 million after taxes but for some reason... wants to make sure it's at least 2.5 million or even 3 million after taxes?  Now that would be insane right?  The thing is you think there are people that might have 2 million dollars even worth of bitcoin if selling all after tax but somehow choose to live in a crappy apartment and continue working a low income job that barely covers their living expenses?

Let us just give an example and say that I am one of those people that have been holding for the last 5 years with the same amount. The reason why I am not selling because I am waiting specifically for a bigger amount that I can cash out big by that time. While it is seen that Bitcoin's price is going to keep on moving positively, this makes me optimistic to hold longer than to withdraw everytime the bull run is out but I am not sure where I'll spend that money. I don't want to let that profit sit on me because of inflation and that's why fiat sucks and bitcoin rocks. As fiat gets more inflation, bitcoin is more with deflation. So that's it, more about the bigger value that we can take in the future.

i'm sure there are members on this forum who continue to hold on to the bitcoin they have for a long time, they do that because they don't need money by selling the bitcoin they have, they must already have a permanent job out there that pays them well.  i always tell anyone that the best way to get good profits from bitcoin is by trading, investing or opening a business related to bitcoin.  Michael Saylor is a good example of a bitcoin investor who until now has not sold the bitcoin he bought through his company Microstrategy, he can do that because his company has made big money from their best-selling products.