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    Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 2010296 times)

    • ocminer
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    June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
     #8241
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.
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  • lordoliver
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    June 19, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
     #8242
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.

    you go back in time... you just don't see it

  • ocminer
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    June 19, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
     #8243
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.

    you go back in time... you just don't see it

    OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.
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  • lordoliver
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    June 19, 2016, 09:17:48 AM
     #8244
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.

    you go back in time... you just don't see it

    OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

    and you are 100% sure, that you do?

  • Mrpumperitis
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    June 19, 2016, 09:21:29 AM
     #8245
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ

    Published on 18 Jun 2016

    A live show recorded in the aftermath of the DAO's draining of funds by an unknown actor. In this show, Andreas M. Antonopoulos moderates a discussion with guests Pamela Morgan (attorney), Brian Klein (attorney) and Taylor Gerring (Ethereum Project co-founder), with live twitter Q&A and participation from the DAO slack channel.
    Bitcoin - Blockchain 1.0 (2009)
    Ethereum - Blockchain 2.0 (2015)
    Partisia - Blockchain 3.0  (2021)

  • ocminer
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    June 19, 2016, 09:22:02 AM
     #8246
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:17:48 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.

    you go back in time... you just don't see it

    OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

    and you are 100% sure, that you do?

    Yes, but after all it doesn't matter as long as i'm with the consensus.  (hint: this is what cryptos are all about)
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  • lordoliver
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    June 19, 2016, 09:25:48 AM
     #8247
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:22:02 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:17:48 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

    We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

    You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

    This is consensus, this is democracy.

    you go back in time... you just don't see it

    OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

    and you are 100% sure, that you do?

    Yes, but after all it doesn't matter as long as i'm with the consensus.  (hint: this is what cryptos are all about)


    We all know, that the consensus is not yet final. There are pers and cons, that have to be discussed. 90% of the people are manipulated by such discussions...
    Thats why I want to make clear, that there ARE cons. Please make sure, that everyone notes them...

  • becoin
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    June 19, 2016, 09:28:22 AM
     #8248
    Quote from: corather on June 19, 2016, 08:44:16 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    Thats more or less true with a soft fork, but a hard fork, is like going back in time an change the law.
    Example:

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique. The casino owner is bankruped and the stock is dropping by 50%. He and his stock owners decide to go back in time and change the casino rules, so that the one, that wins the 50 Million at this day doesn't have to be payed out. Fair?

    But even the soft fork can be somehow discussable:
    The winner won the 50 Million, that can only be payed out a month later. But the Casino owner closes the casino, and sets all escrow funds on hold.

    In a casino, if you exploit to win, you're thrown out and blacklisted at every casino in town.

    I thought it was a smart contract platform?
    In a casino you have to have a lot of luck.
    Welcome to eth casino. Good Luck!

  • roselee
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    June 19, 2016, 09:36:33 AM
     #8249
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.
    you dont have ether or dao ?
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    June 19, 2016, 09:38:38 AM
     #8250
    Timetravelling is so passé
    ..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
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       ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀
      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███  ██  ██  ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ██████████████████████████████████████████    		▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄
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    ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█
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    		..PLAY NOW..

  • roselee
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    June 19, 2016, 09:45:04 AM
     #8251
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.
    For example if you go back and kill hitler you save millions of people. But maybe the russians may have taken lead of the world and bombed usa with an atomic bomb and killed even more...
    i agree with you
    now vitalik is still very young and he made that decition but
    is it good ?
    the devs who did the dao should step forwart and say we are sorry we missed the hole that made it posible to steel
    the hole should be closed and thats it
    as i recall
    on all this pages there is a line like
    be careful joining means you can lose all
    at least at the etherpage it was
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  • digi123
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    June 19, 2016, 09:47:50 AM
     #8252
    There is a chance to fix a mistake that has been made, thankfully there was a delay for the funds to be released.
    Eth is still in its infancy the wallets are beta wallets so its effectively in beta stage still for a long while yet. Anything needing to be fixed should be, especially within this period, which has still many months to go.
    If anyone is allowed to do what has been done and get away with it would be inconceivable madness and would show incredible weakness in etherium, and would be an absolute worse case outcome.


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    June 19, 2016, 09:54:56 AM
     #8253
    all of you talk about the stolen ether from the dao
    and how to fix it and roll back and so on
    but that will not fix the damage
    we the ether holder who had notheing to do with dao
    we have a big loss
    ether was high and is now low
    and a hardfork ? will that be good for the ether price ? i daubt it
    so we again pay for the code done by whom ?
    id realy like to know who did that code
    and missed to see the hole

    and yes i know ether price will rais again
    Wink
    i just trow this in the discution
    it seems to me its not fair to everyone
    its just saveing a loss for investors
    but what about the early investors ?
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  • ImI
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    June 19, 2016, 10:13:06 AM
     #8254
    Quote from: roselee on June 19, 2016, 09:54:56 AM
    all of you talk about the stolen ether from the dao
    and how to fix it and roll back and so on
    but that will not fix the damage
    we the ether holder who had notheing to do with dao
    we have a big loss
    ether was high and is now low

    thats a wrong approach to this. as the DAO crowdfunded ether was low and high afterwards and nobody complained.

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    June 19, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
     #8255
    Well, i am out. Thank you ETH. https://i.imgur.com/jx5bvyJ.gif
    ..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
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    		..PLAY NOW..

  • Timeline
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    June 19, 2016, 10:49:31 AM
     #8256
    Eth will recover soon from all of this hassle and go back to close to previous prices.  Smiley
    https://tokenhouse.market

  • coinits
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    June 19, 2016, 10:53:06 AM
     #8257
    Quote from: Mrpumperitis on June 19, 2016, 10:50:50 AM
    Quote from: Timeline on June 19, 2016, 10:49:31 AM
    Eth will recover soon from all of this hassle and go back to close to previous prices.  Smiley
    its gona fly past previous prices...
    what doesnt kill me makes me me stronger

    I have seen what you are saying with every shitcoin in existence. It's delusional. The brain-trust behind this coin should be beat and pissed on.
    The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers.

  • Lucky - Luciano
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    June 19, 2016, 11:02:37 AM
     #8258
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.
    For example if you go back and kill hitler you save millions of people. But maybe the russians may have taken lead of the world and bombed usa with an atomic bomb and killed even more...
    Perhaps the Russians to do (when you say). The atomic bomb is was then thrown already, and threw the Americans who are  killed and maimed several hundreds of thousands of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Russia is a symbol of justice, peace and harmony in the world, asshole . This is the theme of the Ethereum and is not about politics,war,etc.

  • coinits
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    June 19, 2016, 11:11:36 AM
     #8259
    Quote from: Lucky - Luciano on June 19, 2016, 11:02:37 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.
    For example if you go back and kill hitler you save millions of people. But maybe the russians may have taken lead of the world and bombed usa with an atomic bomb and killed even more...
    Perhaps the Russians to do (when you say). The atomic bomb is was then thrown already, and threw the Americans who are  killed and maimed several hundreds of thousands of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Russia is a symbol of justice, peace and harmony in the world, asshole . This is the theme of the Ethereum and is not about politics,war,etc.

    No. Ethereum is about a bunch of retarded Devs who caused the coin to go shit because of an exploit.
    The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers.

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    June 19, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
     #8260
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 09:10:21 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:49:56 AM
    Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 08:47:41 AM
    Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 08:17:31 AM
    Quote from: bitboy11 on June 19, 2016, 07:41:08 AM
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
    Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
    The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

    Now roll it back.

    Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

    You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

    Not the true story, true story:

    A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

    What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

    You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

    That still doesn't change anything on the situation

    The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.
    For example if you go back and kill hitler you save millions of people. But maybe the russians may have taken lead of the world and bombed usa with an atomic bomb and killed even more...

    Your last comment actually is SO dumb and disgusting it proves pretty well What an ignorant,  dumb and disgusting Person you are. 

    Whenever there is a chance of saving Any Human life OF COURSE YOU SHALL SAVE IT -  there is no Discussion necessary at all for such a question,  regardless of other unknown things that MAY happen.

    We are not talking about Human life here but of a flaw,  an error in a Piece of  code that was exploited by some individuals without of the consensus or without the approval of the majority.

    Imagine a Bank that gets robbed and afterwards you are suing the Bank for getting robbed and not the robbers because they did such a decent Job and did Not get caught  (at first)...

    Other coins implement voting Features so that Similar happenings can be circumvented by the majority..  The miners or HODLers Wink
    suprnova pools - reliable mining pools - #suprnova on freenet
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