As far as I understand as a newbie, there is nothing to be disappointed about the price of Bitcoin! Because the price of Bitcoin increases as it decreases! Therefore, it is certain that patience is sweet! You just have to wait until the price increases! Remember that after darkness comes light! Just like the sky is covered with clouds before the rain comes. After the rain comes, the sky becomes clear again! In the same way, the price of Bitcoin also increases!

Thanks for pointing out that trading versus investing point in which it seems that Huliya was suggesting that it would be o.k. to trade 10-15% of his bitcoin every year or maybe expecting a profits of 10-15% on whatever bitcoin that he would be trading every year.  To the extent that I understand what he is even saying, it seems a bit ridiculous to have those kinds of expectations of being able to get returns from trading. 

When I first read that part of his post, I was thinking that he meant to put 10-15% per year into bitcoin, yet now I see that I had not read or understood it clearly..

I am not against the idea of some guys thinking that they have to get an income off of trading, and surely there can be some places (or situations) in which guys have trouble making money, so they find that their chances of making money are much greater to trade bitcoin (and even crypto) rather than trying to get income from the kinds of work that are available to them in their geography and/or their employable skill levels.

I am not unsympathetic to some traders making income from trades, and even some of the traders being good enough at trading that they are actually able to live off of the income, yet it is a rare trader who is both able to live off of his trading income and also able to build up funds to the side (such as building up a bitcoin stash) in order to be able to do better in those kinds of trading activities rather than to earn income from other sources and to inject that value into building his BTC stash over time.

Of course, there are some traders who figure it out, perhaps less than 5% of all of them, so the skill of being able to build an investment and to trade at the same time in a consistently profitable way (by guarding principle at least) is a pretty rare skill and it is way too common that traders are either not sufficiently enough disciplined and organized and/or they are not sufficiently able to segregate their investment accounts (their secure accounts) from their trading capital, so they end up risking and/or locking up investment money for too long of periods of time that either cause losses or failures of the investment money to gain as it should and/or to compound on itself over extended periods of time..... so they may well also calculate ways to make it seem that they are in profits yet they are also ignoring or downplaying some of the opportunity costs that ended up playing out when they would sometimes have large portions of their capital (perhaps even what they consider to be their non-trading capital) in the wrong places at the wrong time.

So it can be quite difficult to both build capital (and an investment fund) and to segregate trading in profitable ways (and to live off of trading proceeds) all at the same time, and pretty rare traders who actually can accomplish all of that in ways that are more profitable than the guy who has outside income and injecting that outside income into something like BTC.  Of course, another thing that can be understandable is that there are some guys who earn such little money in regular kinds of work, so it can start to seem that it does not make much sense for them to be spending so much time in regular work that pays so little.. but then they still have very BIG dilemmas regarding how they are ever able to build up their capital (whether trading funds and/or investment funds) in order to really be able to get to a point that they can both profit from their various trades and also to be able to extract value from the funds to be able to live off of those funds...and a lot of that can become easier when there are outside income sources that at least pay for living expenses, so figuring out the balance of how much time to spend on outside work can become a difficult dilemma especially if there are difficulties finding work that both pays well and does not become too demanding on time and/or other energies that a guy might need for trading (for the guys thinking that they can actually regularly profit from trading).


For sure, if a person has an income that is separate from trading and separate from his investments, then he can use that income to build his investment stash and/or perhaps even to build his trading capital.  There can be ways that income can also come from investment and/or from trading capital, and such income can come in systematic ways from either source, without depleting the source, yet it surely can be much more challenging to set up income streams from investment and/or trading capital, and perhaps even more difficult from trading capital since a central idea in trading is to move capital around and use the capital to leverage profits, to arbitrage and/or to find areas in which profits are potentially high and/or highly likely, yet the moving around of capital can end up in way more risk taking than intended and causing inabilities to rely on income flowing from it.. and seemingly even less so than potentially putting decent amounts of capital in some investment and then just calculating a reasonable income stream from the investment that does not deplete the investment because the amounts are already systematically calculated and the capital is not as likely to be moving around as much as a trader would end up doing.


Hopefully, we are not mixing up bitcoin and crypto here in terms of talking about investing, so any entity whether governmental or institution can end up having similar issues as rich individuals who don't recognize/appreciate any need to be investing in bitcoin, since their fiat systems and fiat investments seem to be working sufficiently well for them, yet there are so many aspects of fiat systems that are messed up so that even well off entities are going to witness weak areas in their systems and their expectations and then figure out that maybe they should be hedging into bitcoin.. and yeah, since they may well be so dumb about bitcoin in the beginning, the dumb twats might not actually be able to recognize and/or appreciate the difference between bitcoin and crypto and so  they might not at first figure out why their hedging should be in bitcoin and not in shitcoins (or crypto or various shitcoin related projects that are appearing to be like bitcoin, but aren't bitcoin).


The first sentence of your response seems to be just saying exactly what I had already said.. so those seem to be my words rather than yours.

Second, you might need to work through some of these comparison matters in your head and even read through my scenarios a bit more in order to attempt to make comparisons and in order to attempt to better be able to talk about making past comparisons as compared with making comparisons of what may or may not happen in the future.  It becomes confusing if you are making comparisons that cross over timelines, including that someone who starts investing right now (or even starts trading right now) is starting from current circumstances, as compared with someone who might have started 10 years ago, 5 years ago or even a year or two ago, such as around the time of your forum registration date.

There is no problem to compare different timelines as long as there are attempts to be clear about who you might be comparing at any given point.. so if we are talking about trader versus investor, then it may well be better to pick the timeline of the comparison for that.  If we are  comparing an early investor to a later investor then that is another comparison point.. and surely the subject matter of this thread has to do with whether it is too late to buy, and surely I like to emphasize considerations of whether a person might be a no coiner right now or a low coiner right now and then to figure out what the guy might want to do... A no coiner is a bit more clear, since he has absolutely no coins, yet a low coiner might not be much different from a no coiner in terms of considering himself to not have enough coins, so then a low coiner would still end up getting into analyzing the extent to which he had already accumulated in order to figure out if it might be justified for such self-assessed low coiner to either stop accumulating bitcoin, to temper his accumulation or even to sell bitcoin with an expectation of buying back cheaper (which then gets us into trading behaviors).

It seems to me that you are presenting some of your ideas with a bit of gobbledy-gook kind of way since you are mixing ideas of comparing past and present and you are also not even using current prices, to the extent that $50k might be relevant in terms of evaluating what a guy with 35 BTC might want to do, might want to consider doing or even to consider what such guy  might have done, if he had been accumulating BTC and then all of a sudden sold some or all of his BTC at either a lower price or at around our current price..

Also merely because a guy spent 10 years accumulating BTC and getting his stash up to 35 BTC with a mere $52k in capital, that still would not necessarily mean that he is going to want to sell some or all of  those BTC right away or even sell such BTC in large chunks, even though he currently is able to value his current BTC stash and consider various options that he might have based on his having had accumulated such quantity of BTC over the past 10 years.  The scenario may or may not be realistic in terms of the extent to which we might want to know other things about the guy that would have contributed to his ability to stay persistent and also why he might not have changed his behaviors at some point in the past 10 years, yet sometimes when we are presenting pure types in order to make comparisons, there still might not be very many people who might actually fit into such pure type without really knowing the context in which the guy might have had been in order to fit into the hypothetical person category.

Remember also that we might be wanting to compare what an investor might have done over the past 10 years as contrasted to what a trader might have done over the past 10 years, so one of the ways to make such comparison is to attempt to pick some kinds of pure or representative behaviors, so when we get to the end of the period, an investor would still be likely to treat his BTC stash in an investor kind of a way, which means that he is not necessarily going to transition into selling some or all of his BTC stash right away.. and a trader may well continue to trade through out the period. 

Of course, in the real world we may well not have pure types, so it can sometimes become more difficult to make comparisons of what actual real people might have had ended up doing since there will be instances in which investors act like traders and traders act like investors, and so those non-pure types are more difficult to distinguish in systematic kinds of ways without getting bogged down in a myriad of details.  To me it still seems quite helpful to try to compare various pure types, even though if we might be looking at what someone actually did, we end up having to get into the circumstances of that particular person, so even if we might be looking at our own performance over a period of time and where we might be in our own investment at any given time, we might see some value in trying to compare our own performance to our looking at where a pure type might have had been at the same point in time. ... so in that regard, we might consider if we might want to make adjustments to what we are doing, and so in that regard, on a personal level, I will frequently look at what a strict DCA person might have had done over a particular point in time, and to measure my own location and to consider if I am in a place that I want to be or if I might need to make some tweaks. 

Surely the comparisons of where we are at and where we could have had been are likely going to be different for folks who might be in their early to mid accumulation stages as compared with someone who might consider that he has already reached his accumulation goals and perhaps feels that he has overaccumulated.. yet in regards to this thread, there seems to be a bit of a presumption that anyone contemplating accumulating bitcoin and considering whether it is too late would fit into the categories of not having had accumulated enough BTC yet, which seems to be the definitional status of a no coiner and/or a low coiner.


Are you really saying anything Lembo69?  What kind of a timeline are you playing?  Are you trading or investing with your wishy-washy assessment that sometimes the BTC price goes up and then sometimes it goes down? Your superficial baloney, to the extent that you are even a person rather than a bot, sound more like a trader rather than investor's mentality.

You know looking at the current value of bitcoin can make you not to think of investing in bitcoin for the main time, probably waiting for a dip before you will think of investing. Any investor who is ready to go into bitcoin investment will never pay attention to the current value of bitcoin instead they will just carry out their investment plans without anyone knowing about it.

 This set of people who is complaining about the price being too expensive, when the value was around $75k they were also complaining so I think this set of people are not yet ready to go into bitcoin investment because had it been they're ready to invest in bitcoin, they would have invested in the early stage when the price was at the range of $70k to $75k.

I cannot disagree with your overall sentiment that there can be choices to focus on future income earning potential that likely need to be pursued early in life rather than later in life, yet at the same time, I doubt that it is helpful to be blanketedly proclaiming what people need to do, even if they ask you for advice, they have to ultimately figure out their own priorities and the extent to which they might be able to balance more than one interest at the same time. 

For sure, young people frequently will make pretty dumb-ass decisions when left to their own devices, and sometimes they cannot differentiate between good ideas and bad ideas, yet it still seems like something that they have to figure out and balance on their own, and surely sometimes we might help them in figuring out how to weigh the tradeoffs rather than proclaiming that we know the best answer for their situation (even if we might know them well).


For sure the cashflow of students can vary quite a bit in terms of what kind of institution they are studying in, and what their housing costs might be (living with parents or not?), and sometimes they might have financial aid or scholarships that might help too... Some students have jobs and others have internships, and some of the internships and jobs might be related to their longer term interest and other kind of jobs might just be menial work that might not be very helpful to their career objectives.  Some students might not be able to get into the better internships (perhaps even unpaid) unless they have some abilities to support themselves, which they might not be able to do, yet the internship might have high chances of increasing their future employment opportunities and income.  There is a lot of variance and sometimes luck and sometimes needs for students to spend time looking through possible opportunties and figuring out how to either present themselves or to gain certain experiences so they become a more convincing candidate to be selected for some position that might be a stepping stone to another kind of position.  There can be a lot of variables, and surely some kinds of students might be able to get better networks than others based on a variety of factors, including if they might have attended some networking smoozing event.


Sure we can attempt to figure out our own timeline and our expenses going out quite a distance in the future in order to figure out when we might expect to need some or all of the proceeds from investments that we make, and in the case of one kind of employment potentially leading to another kind of employment, we might consider various scenarios in which we have some base case scenario expectations, yet we also have some worse case and best case scenarios in our projection of the future, so we might not know for sure how our chances might improve or get worse in terms of future opportunties or income increases, or even losing a better paying job and ending up having to take a worse paying job.    So, for sure, details can matter in terms of how much we might stock away into bitcoin or any other investment including based on if we really are able to consider that we can lock up funds for 5 years or more or if there might be scenarios that we have to temper how much we lock up, and also we have to make sure that we realize that even if bitcoin has always been positive after 5 years, we are not guaranteed that bitcoin is going to be positive in the next 5 years.. so we should have some cushion in whatever we are expecting to account for that potential scenario, too.. including making sure we safeguard it and are careful about how much we might be keeping on an exchange (perhaps no more than 10% on an exchange?, which also might vary depending on circumstances).

Hopefully you are not too distracted with your ideas (and investment into shitcoins./crypto) or your beliefs about diversification are also not distracting you too much, especially if you are in your beginning stages of accumulating bitcoin and if you have some lame-ass ideas that diversification justifies getting involved with shitcoins prior to learning and investing into bitcoin first. 

Also your use of the term, "blockchain technology" is another sign that you might not really know bitcoin very well and you are just spouting out some nonsense to try to appear smarter than you are.

It is difficult to see the journey of bitcoin in the market becoming more stable and I am not so sure that this will happen in the near future and it should be much better like this because even though the volatility is high we can achieve more promising investments in terms of returns. When volatility is stable this will be different and may not be what people expect for the investment process that is being carried out and now we can review why bitcoin is one of the best choices and it is inseparable from the role of volatility itself.

For those who always say it's too late, no matter what bitcoin's journey will be like, they will still say it and that's normal because there are people who dare to take risks and there are some who are just in their comfort zone because they are not ready to face risks. Bitcoin's journey from the beginning until now should be enough reason why we need to invest here because we see how bitcoin continues to grow rapidly.

Anyone saying that it's too late to invest in bitcoin is not ready to invest and such people will regret for giving irrelevant excuses when they had the opportunity to invest in bitcoin. Bitcoin price shouldn't be an excuse, because this was how those people where opportune to invest in the early days, overlooked at the opportunity that they had proclaiming that bitcoin was expensive in 2022, when bitcoin price was below $20k.

No successful investors sat in his house and became successful over night without taking risk. Risk takers will always learn new things from their experience and will strife to achieve their goal. Investing in bitcoin is worth taking the risk, because you are building and growing wealth for your future by only buying bitcoin with DCA regularly every week or month for 4-10 years above and hodli for long. Kidnappers, drug traffickers and even politicians takes some high level of risk to achieve their goal. Talk more of bitcoin investment that you are only to be buying with little amount from your discretionary income as a constant practice, so that you can upgrade your financial status in future with your bitcoin investment

Don't be evil JayJuanGee, give them the benefit of the doubt and do not assume that diversification means bitcoin + dogecoin + bitcoin sv + MAGA! But I admit, I fear you are right with your assumption about their idea of diversification.

Yes, blockchain technology... you remember when all these consultancy companies like Deloitte and Pricewaterhouse Coopers picked up the term blockchain technology and tried to strip it off bitcoin, then bash bitcoin and say that the blockchain technology is the real thing, but bitcoin isn't? I noticed this thanks to your post here because I haven't read that bullshit from them in quite a while. It was more of a thing in 2017 or so I think. Blockchain? yes. Bitcoin? no. Frankly it couldn't get any more stupid than that.

They did it because they wanted to build their own centralized products that they could control and sell. Not possible with bitcoin, but now this circumstances probably still doesn't ring a bell here by those who have doubts what makes bitcoin valuable...

Those who believe in buzz words get busted. Was the same during the dotcom bubble. Everyone bought the next cheap thing that got the term "Internet" attached to it and they all got wrecked. Better stick with what has proven to be resilient already even if it seems to be "more expensive".

A lot of folks get discouraged when they see Bitcoin price skyrocket but the reality is there's still plenty of potential for growth. If you invest with the right mindset you can totally overide the hurdles along the way and see some awesome returns down the line. No matter the price, you can always invest in Bitcoin at a level that feels right for you. The potential for growth is still there, and it’s awesome that you can jump in and take advantage that it presents at all given time.

When you invest in Bitcoin it's like planting a seed. It might take time to grow but with patience and the right care it can flourish. The market can be volatile, but if you are in it for the long term you can really benefit from those ups and downs. Bitcoin has a solid track record of bouncing back after dips, which is a good sign for long-term investors.