If we want to change emission, it is now. Otherwise it is never.

I also wonder if they will be able to link wallets to vendors by tracking transactions to exchanges and getting subpoenas.  I.e. subpoena exchanges to get their deposit addresses, get all the vendor deposit addresses they can from their infiltration of SR2 (and possibly the SR2 tumbler), and try and connect the two.

People who are careful and mix multiple times may be ok, but there will always be a few who were sloppy.  Even if they don't capture the biggest and most sophisticated this way, I see a lot of PR value to government taking credit for "cracking" bitcoin's pseudonymity.

In this regard, how secure is Darkcoin?  It seems like the masternode operator can link transactions that they mix - although I'm not totally clear on this.  And there is no reason the gov't can't operate a lot of masternodes.

The response from Darkcoin seems to be that you can mix several times, and as long as one of the masternodes is not compromised, you are ok.  But it seems like the flip side is true as well.  If there are multiple compromised masternodes, then over time, they will capture the full transaction.

With all due respect, I believe anybody thinking there is no way to absorb current emission is completely wrong.

The problem is that the community is not expanding as it was in the beginning. There is no new investors, no fresh money, and obviously with only the current community we cannot absorb infinitely the emission.
From http://redditmetrics.com/r/Monero:




Fix that, and I am sure the discussions about the emission being "wrong" will quickly be old memory. Trying to fix the emission to fit the needs of a constant - not growing - community, is grossly wrong.

It doesn't make any sense investing in an instrument which looses in value -> Wrong. If there are good news, the software gets much easier to use than before, "investors" should see the value in there.

You should stop thinking so much about investors. Remember bitcoin after the 2011 crisis? Price was in bearish trend forever. Many called it dead. It would be dead today if the emission was changed at that time because "let's content the investors".

Slowing the reward function doesn't fix this, it just delays the inevitable, because sooner or later you still run out. A minimum reward fixes it, which is why it has always been part of the design.

If anything should be clear by now it should be that there will be no clear consensus to cut the emissions. All the arguments have been repeated several times already, so repeating another ten times isn't going to work any better than the first ten.

If you (not you personally speaking to everyone) are an advocate for changing the emissions you better realize that your current approach is not working and try something else, or accept that it was a good idea that just wasn't feasible. The constant bickering over it neither helpful nor effective.

My suggestion if you want more mining and security later under the current design would be to simply make full use of the "<1%" inflation that was included in the design and set the minimum reward at about 0.3 instead of the 0.1 that was previously proposed. That would kick in after about 6-7 years, addressing the issue that the coin appears to be nearly fully mined in 3-4 years. When the 0.3 kicks in that would be about 0.9% inflation (as opposed waiting 10 years to reach 0.3% before setting the minimum) that would decline over time but never quite reach zero (as with any fixed reward).

If that is rejected because 0.9% is too much inflation then it is very likely we will end up with the existing curve and a minimum after 10 years.

We have >700 people on reddit.

The best marketing we can possibly hope for is to actively encourage people to go to other places on reddit, and make smart sounding comments. People can see your other posts .. and it's not an uncommon thing for someone to find a new community by going through someone else's posts.

The exact same goes for this forum.

I know there's not supposed to be talk about 'other coins' in this thread, so I won't mention any specifically .. but consider that if these people saw you in their threads, being decent and asking questions about their technology and improvements, then you're really gonna see things turn around. I promise you.

Being exclusive, or being labeled as exclusive, has been the greatest impediment to this coin and community. It's literally why we're here talking about emission. We need people in other threads on this forum, posting at least questions on how to use their software, or at least commenting that some aspect of their software is nice. I'm not saying go hard on them, and hype them up but ffs if you haven't seen how beautiful a bitsharesx or nxt wallet is my god you're really missing out.

We really need to branch out now, and show some real interest in not only being an alternative currency, but showing other people that we realize we're a part of a larger community of other alternative currencies, all with the exact same hopes and dreams as us.

I mean, for some of them with active communities, it takes literally less than 30 cents to secure yourself .0000075 of the currency, which by comparison is the same as having 150 bitcoins.

Ask yourself, is holding onto 30 cents worth the continued scorn of this community and  forum?

I promise you, you can pick at least 30 currencies, spend less than fifty bucks total, and secure yourself .0000075 of the total emission for all of them. Imagine next that, that fifty dollars is the same fifty dollars you didn't have to spend on a marketing company, which is likely gonna tell you to do the exact same thing I'm telling you right now .. or fifty dollars you don't have to spend on propping this price up. You can still keep monero as your biggest and most favorite investment, nothing has changed except that you show a little more culture.

My point is that if people see you in their thread, in their community, in their home, at peace and trying to show them that you're not a spiteful asshole, and at least acknowledge their existence, maybe make a friend or two, then they're probably gonna turn around and show you the same. They're not all scams, or bad, or lame .. I can promise you that there are a lot that really are all three of them .. but there's also a few that aren't. If you'd like the list of things I've gone through, I'm willing to share my hacked together spreadsheet portfolio with you (obviously with my information removed).

How many of us actually go to other threads and ask questions, literally any question at all, about the different types of technology that we're collectively entrenched in every time we come here? I promise you, if you're not doing this, you're really missing out. You don't even have to buy any of it, because the fact that you spent ten minutes compiling and running their software is really gonna be enough for most people.

This is what we need to do next, not rehash the same emission discussion every month. Make some friends.

I realize this is off topic, and it's probably gonna be offensive to some people because it literally translates to 'buy another coin' in some sentences, but it's to make the point that I really think that participation in other communities than just this one and bitcoin will return to us our network effects that have almost diminished over the last month.

As I said before, our ranking in the crypto market hasn't really ever changed. This is a market issue not an XMR-specific issue (i.e. neither emission nor GUI/DB).

Adoption happens in crypto when the crypto market doesn't suck. Otherwise, people have no reason to pay attention outside of a few hard core insiders (i.e us). They go back to paying attention to the stock market or flipping houses or something else.

TrueCryptonaire it seems you misunderstood me. 
Wallet and DB are not triggering points, but are something Monero needs before we anyway try to push it for wider use. 

You said that changing emission will make bull trend and that will help with getting new users. I said that might happen, but is much better if it happens when there is DB and wallet here. And i also said it will even do the opposite if emission and then bull trend start now.

first thing:
I'm working on a small website with layman explanation about monero/cryptonote.
I've been distracted by some RL things lately, but still slowly working on it.
Maybe we should create a "community wiki" where we can collaborate to finish this.
We can use this wiki to structure the information that is now spread around in different threads, websites, papers, etc.
This would be a good tool to point new possible users of monero to. This project should be finished before the GUI is published


and now a rehashing of a part of my argument about emission change:

When you buy a coin, the first thing you want to know is how much coins will be mined, NOT the mining reward system (as long as there is no hidden premine).
when someone buys 1840 XMR, he knows that he bought 1/10000 of the total supply. I personally know no one who buys a certain % of the current supply or compares his stash to the current supply.

What matters is TOTAL supply. "21 million bitcoins" is something everybody on this forum knows. The number of people who know what the current mining reward is will be lower. The number of people who know the first years of bitcoin had a 50 BTC block reward will be even lower than that.
The 21 million bitcoins already exist. Only 14M are mined yet, but that is just temporarily.  

So... for the general public who wants to USE monero, the mining scheme doesn't really matter. What they need is liquidity.
And we still have that liquidity? It has been higher, yes... But still, not bad.
When DB + fee structure + solution for ram issues + GUI are finished (end of 2014?), I expect to see new adoption, more liquidity and slowly increasing exchange rate.

I'm still not convinced a change need to happen.

Nur miaj du cendoj